Stormcloaks or Legion - which do you prefer?

[Jaime Gemstone]

Which do you prefer and why?
Legion or Stormcloaks.

I don't know how either questline finishes yet, so my opinions might be premature. But I'm doing the quests and reading some books.

I joined the Legion. I'm a redguard girl. I think Ulfricc is a dick with a gay voice and a [&@%!] attitude. I think he's unecessarily divided Skyrim, when the truth is to fight the Thalmor the Empire needs to be united. And I DO want to fight the Thalmor. I think he's weakened Skyrim and made it more vulnerable, even if he was right in his point about Skyrim's original vulnerabilities and weak High King, he's gone about it wrong and just made it worse. I hope I get the chance to kill him before the end. One hell of a yelling match I imagine...

Please censor spoilers for me

[Mai'ik]

With you 100%.. I play a Kahjiit on the PC and a Dunmer on the PS3, and I'm getting to where ALL i want to do is kill Thalmer ( and ascend the throne of course ).. Skyrim SHOULD be ruled by nords, but not as a nation of ONLY nords.. But Skyrim needs the Empire as much as the Empire needs Skyrim.. I just dontthink they belong under one roof.. Trade is one thing Domination is another..
I chose the emperials because it let me eliminate the stormcloaks making it possible for me to ( hopefully ) eliminate the thalmer..
I miss the emperial city and the white gold tower ( And Martin and Jaffre, and.. and.. )

[Biggsydaboss]

I'm a Breton that is Empire all the way. I've have a theory about starting my own Dragonborn imperial bloodline. If it's good enough for Tiber Septim it's good enough for me. I would like to expand my characters role to include being high king of Skyrim & eventually emperor. Would be nice to see some DLC in that direction & a true sequel that takes place in Cyrodiil, towards that end. I've reached the rank of legate in the imperial army. So it's only a matter of time before my dreams are realised. Also I like to kick Thalmor backside, those silly little High Elves need a lesson in humility, messing with my beloved Empire. Also Talos is a god, ordained by Akatosh himself.

[Pancake]

I prefer Empire because Stormcloak was coming off rather racist to me, and on Oblivion, Empire looked like a pretty decent fellows.

I think Ulfricc is a dick with a gay voice

I hope you didn't mean to use "gay" as an insult....

[jimi94]

Well I'm with the stormcloaks because they didn't try to behead me when I wasn't even on the damned list.

[Iceborn]

I prefer Empire because Stormcloak was coming off rather racist to me, and on Oblivion, Empire looked like a pretty decent fellows.

I think Ulfricc is a dick with a gay voice

I hope you didn't mean to use "gay" as an insult....

Honestly? As much as the LGBT community wants to get people to stop using it like that, what can you do? It's unnecessary to even question whether or not they meant to use it as an insult. Choose your battles wisely, Pancake! Sometimes it just isn't worth it.

As far as I'm concerned though, I went with the Stormcloaks, as a Dunmer.

[Pancake]

I prefer Empire because Stormcloak was coming off rather racist to me, and on Oblivion, Empire looked like a pretty decent fellows.

I think Ulfricc is a dick with a gay voice

I hope you didn't mean to use "gay" as an insult....

Honestly? As much as the LGBT community wants to get people to stop using it like that, what can you do? It's unnecessary to even question whether or not they meant to use it as an insult. Choose your battles wisely, Pancake! Sometimes it just isn't worth it.

As far as I'm concerned though, I went with the Stormcloaks, as a Dunmer.

Yeah, you're right. I know there's nothing I can do about it, but that's the least I could do. Even in LGBT community lot of people excessively use the word, casually. If I couldn't uphold, in a benign manner, my standing then I'm not worth a person I thought I was. Now I'm rambling.


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Is Thalmor the arch-enemy of the civil war? I don't understand how could they be walking in Skyrim's road peacefully and attacking my character ocassionally.

[noobishlord]

Well I'm with the stormcloaks because they didn't try to behead me when I wasn't even on the damned list.

I hear this ^ as a reason so often. My Dunmer is with the Stormcloaks, despite how they're treated in Windhelm. Mostly it's about the whole religion thing. Sure, as a Dunmer, I could give a crap about Talos, but that's also the thing. We Dunmer pretty much have religious freedom to worship our the Daedra. The Nords should be free to worship their man-god if they so desire.

My Orc, on the other hand, is with the Empire. It was with the Empire that Orcs finally got some well deserved respect, even if we aren't liked a whole lot. Again, he could care less about the whole Talos thing, being an Orc, but he does think its rather stupid to start a whole war over a "simple" little thing like that.

Me personally? I'd rather stay out of the whole thing, and be left alone to plunge into another Dwemer dungeon. So many things to tinker with down there... if the Falmer don't kill me again.

[Stan RedGuard]

I do like how 90% of us have plans for our characters to become Emperor.
Empire. As much as I appreciate most of what the Stormcloaks stand for, a divided Empire and a separate Skyrim will be easy pickings for the Thalmor.

[Boulderheart]

I do like how 90% of us have plans for our characters to become Emperor.
Empire. As much as I appreciate most of what the Stormcloaks stand for, a divided Empire and a separate Skyrim will be easy pickings for the Thalmor.

Spoiler:

Isn't that what the Thalmor want? They actually support the violence and war in Skyrim, as you said a divided Skyrim is easy pickings.

[Stan RedGuard]

I do like how 90% of us have plans for our characters to become Emperor.
Empire. As much as I appreciate most of what the Stormcloaks stand for, a divided Empire and a separate Skyrim will be easy pickings for the Thalmor.

Spoiler:

Isn't that what the Thalmor want? They actually support the violence and war in Skyrim, as you said a divided Skyrim is easy pickings.

Spoiler:

Yep. Just how the banning of Talos worship was meant to strike at the very idea of Man's divinity and how The Great War's true aim was to put distance between Hammerfell and the Empire.

[StingingVelvet]

I think any race can justify going for the empire, but I don't see why certain ones would go for stormcloaks. Imperials for example, that would be odd.

[Boulderheart]

I think any race can justify going for the empire, but I don't see why certain ones would go for stormcloaks. Imperials for example, that would be odd.

Well you may be an Imperial but might think that the actual Empire is treating Nords bad or w/e. I think for any race to join the stormcloaks they just have to realise that the Nords are being exploited, perhaps.

[Stan RedGuard]

You could be a devout worshiper of Talos.

[Iaius Amaius Heron]

Spoiler:

Isn't that what the Thalmor want? They actually support the violence and war in Skyrim, as you said a divided Skyrim is easy pickings.

Spoiler:

Yep. Just how the banning of Talos worship was meant to strike at the very idea of Man's divinity and how The Great War's true aim was to put distance between Hammerfell and the Empire.

Spoiler:

If those jaundice-sufferers think they're gonna just waltz in and take over, with the muh-fuh dovahkiin and his ability to scream a lightning storm wandering about...

[StingingVelvet]

I think any race can justify going for the empire, but I don't see why certain ones would go for stormcloaks. Imperials for example, that would be odd.

Well you may be an Imperial but might think that the actual Empire is treating Nords bad or w/e. I think for any race to join the stormcloaks they just have to realise that the Nords are being exploited, perhaps.

Sure, but it's way more of a stretch. Same with an altmer or bosmer. You can do it, but you'd need to roleplay a real good reason.

[Stan RedGuard]

Spoiler:

If those jaundice-sufferers think they're gonna just waltz in and take over, with the muh-fuh dovahkiin and his ability to scream a lightning storm wandering about...

Arrogance is one of their defining traits.

[WRXpilot]

I'm in the (seeming) minority going Stormcloak.

My current char is a Nord warrior, and believes in independence for Skyrim. A divided empire might be bad for the empire, but they've already basically proven they can't beat the Thalmor anyway. If Hammerfell can fight with success on its own, so can Skyrim.

The empire just wants to keep Skyrim as a bargaining chip and source of strong soldiers - in return for what exactly? Imperial protection? That doesn't mean anything once they've already capitulated to the Thalmor. Keeping the empire "united" is purely a one-sided proposition now; sure, it benefits the empire/Cryodil, but at the cost of the provinces and their traditions and cultures (ie Skyrim). The truth is that the AD beat the empire the moment they forced the signing of the White-Gold concordant.

The empire can play at "we're gathering our strength to re-new the fight" all they want, but with Thalmor agents/justicars/observers all over imperial territory, the empire can't do anything the Thalmor aren't aware of and able to counter. Meanwhile, the empire knows nothing of what the Aldmeri Dominion is doing, other than the fact that the Thalmor are surely recouping their strength at least as fast as the empire is able to. Bottom line - even if the current empire is able to re-new the fight, the Thalmor are poised to crush them again anyway. No thanks.

Kick the empire out, kick the Thalmor out, and let the damn Aldmeri Dominion try to conquer a free Skyrim the hard way, instead of own their own terms like they're doing now.

[HatofMadness]

Imperial [&@%!]!!

[SilentPsycho]

WRXpilot, I fully agree with you. Personally, I think Skyrim has MORE chance against the Thalmor if they became independant, and able to secure an alliance with Hammerfell, than if they stayed with a dying Empire that's infested with Thalmor agents. In addition to the reasons you gave, there's the fact that due to Skyrim's geography it would be a lot harder to invade than other countries. If you have defenders who know the terrain, know the best places for ambushing, and a harsh climate that the natives are used to, then you have a definite advantage against an invading force.

Also, a lot of people bring up the fact that the Thalmor wanted the Civil War. That is true, but what they're also forgetting is that the Thalmor don't want a Stormcloak win.

As a point of interest, I was reminded of this debate when reading references to an old piece of paper the other day.

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness -- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness....But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government"

- American Declaration of Independence

It's interesting to see so many people arguing against the rebels attempt to gain independence for their country, whereas if you look at the history of the world, the world we live in today would not exist if not for similar rebels.

On a less formal note, to be honest, I find the Stormcloaks to be more honourable than the Empire. Ulfric is doing what he feels right, he's a charismatic leader who fights alongside his men and takes his opponants seriously, and while I may not agree with his non-spoken views on the other races, there's also the fact that he calls my Khajiit kin.

Plus, he didn't try to kill me. That always helps.

[Stan RedGuard]

Quoting real world documents to back up beliefs in a world populated by elves, beastfolk, magic, dragons, various religion pantheons that each have been shown to work, and workable, tangible afterlifes can come up short. If this was the real world, yes, yay to the Stormcloaks. However, in this scenario, the threat posed by the Thalmor- who stamp out religious ideals not their own in a world filled with many impactful faiths, Elves can live for centuries so as to better perpetrate the cruelty we hear scattered rumors of, destroy the idea of man's divinity, and use long-standing schemes and machinations to divide allies- is too great to be fought against by real world idealism.

Hammerfell resisted as it did not because it was the equal of the Dominion, but because the Dominion was greatly weakened by The Great War. In a rare act of stupidity on their part, they attempted to secure Hammerfell after it was ditched by the Empire. ?They also did not defeat the Dominion- they fought them to a standstill at great loss. A wonderful result, but Hammerfell did this at the Dominion's weakest moment. It would be foolish to believe they would repeat this with Skyrim were the situation to present itself.

With every weakened or breakaway province, the Thalmor are presented with greater assurances of final victory. An independent Skyrim would resist valiantly. but outside of Nordic myths and Sovngarde, heroics matter less than victory.

If and when the Dominion is defeated and if the Empire is still weak, then I am all for an independent Skyrim, Hammerfell, High Rock, etc. Until the threat of the Thalmor is dealt with however, I'd much rather a great power be reforged in the steel of the North so as a united front, the Empire can stand against the Dominion. Hammerfell or Skyrim alone, or even united, would still be lesser than when united with High Rock and Cyrodiil.

[Berzerker]

I think any race can justify going for the empire, but I don't see why certain ones would go for stormcloaks. Imperials for example, that would be odd.

Well you may be an Imperial but might think that the actual Empire is treating Nords bad or w/e. I think for any race to join the stormcloaks they just have to realise that the Nords are being exploited, perhaps.

Sure, but it's way more of a stretch. Same with an altmer or bosmer. You can do it, but you'd need to roleplay a real good reason.

Not really not every Altmer or Bosmer agrees with the Thalmor just as not every Nord agrees with the Stormcloaks.

[Boulderheart]

as Berzerker said, I don't think Nords are naturally inclined to want the rebellion, as they see being part of the Empire as a good for trade.
Not every Imperial would think the empire is a great thing.
And not every Altmer believes they are superior to man.

[Berzerker]

as Berzerker said, I don't think Nords are naturally inclined to want the rebellion, as they see being part of the Empire as a good for trade.
Not every Imperial would think the empire is a great thing.
And not every Altmer believes they are superior to man.

I've seen an Altmer woman who was married to an Imperial kinda of interested in what the Thalmor think of inter-species marriage between men and mer.

[Peat]

I think any race can justify going for the empire, but I don't see why certain ones would go for stormcloaks. Imperials for example, that would be odd.

Well you may be an Imperial but might think that the actual Empire is treating Nords bad or w/e. I think for any race to join the stormcloaks they just have to realise that the Nords are being exploited, perhaps.

Sure, but it's way more of a stretch. Same with an altmer or bosmer. You can do it, but you'd need to roleplay a real good reason.

Revenge for almost being executed not enough for you? :p