Does anyone LIKE the thalmor?

[dtmwerks]

Chaos gets where I'm coming from, in a way I think. Knowledge is power, and I would love to understand the Thalmor and their inner workings.

I respect them like I do the Telvanni, I may hate some of their practices, but I respect cunning and power. I still hate them though, mostly because of the Elsweyr debacle. I am sick of the Man v Mer, when will it be the beast races' turn?

At least the orcs have some nice missions with their various strongholds throughout skyrim. Seems like a lot more than what they had in Oblivion. The only orcs I remember in Oblivion was Mazoga and various ones in the fighter's guild.

[Mithrandir]

Chaos gets where I'm coming from, in a way I think. Knowledge is power, and I would love to understand the Thalmor and their inner workings.

I respect them like I do the Telvanni, I may hate some of their practices, but I respect cunning and power. I still hate them though, mostly because of the Elsweyr debacle. I am sick of the Man v Mer, when will it be the beast races' turn?

I think the beast races are sitting on the sidelines waiting for the perfect moment

[OblivionDuruza]

Well, the Thalmor are probably a good thing for Mer, I mean, they were effective in the Oblivion Crisis, a Crisis that saw:

Refugees [filling] the Crystal Tower until it could hold no more. ... fear [that hung] in the air; ... the pall of despair suffocating [the Altmeri refugees who]could see the daedra moving through the trees in the distance, [letting the Altmer lie in the Tower while they waited.] Days passed, and still the daedra would not approach within arrow-shot of the battlements. Hope began to grow. "They fear us," some [said], "even a daedra knows not to trifle with the wisdom and magicks of the Crystal-Like-Law!"

It was as if the foul denizens of Oblivion had been waiting for this very spirit to stoke our hearts before they acted.

As [the Altmer] slept, innumerable legions of daedra amassed around [them]... and they were not alone. Hundreds of Altmer prisoners were gathered with them. As dawn broke, [the refugees] were awoken by their screams as the daedra began to flail them and flay them. [They] watched in abject horror as [their] kinfolk were defiled completely... carved up and eaten alive, impaled on their depraved war machines, and worried apart as meals for their profane beasts.

This bloodletting was only a prelude to whet their appetites.

Once the daedra finished with [the Altmeri prisoners], they turned their eyes to the Crystal Tower. [The Altmer's] great and noble bastion proved as much of an impediment as a mighty oak to a landslide - standing tall for but a few moments, appearing almost able to ride the tide of destruction around it, but ultimately being swept away.

As such, they aren't a good thing for the Men races, because they are about to, and have already, upset the dominance that Man has held for generations. Of course this would instil fear and hate in the hearts of all men.

[dtmwerks]

Where is that quote from Duruza? I'd love to read more about what happened in the other provinces during the Oblivion crisis.

[OblivionDuruza]

It's from a book called Rising Threat, which starts as an account of the destruction in Summerset, then turns into a very critical account of the Thalmor, from a Mer who fled the destruction at the Crystal-Like-Law and eventually came to the Empire. I'm using it mainly as a source of Oblivion Crisis lore, not so much for its view on the Thalmor, which seem somewhat deluded and biased to me, despite what people are bound to say about me being deluded and biased not the author, who's sanity itself could be in question as a result of the trauma he endured at the Crystal Tower.

[Mithrandir]

Thanks for the link! I actually want to read more about the Thalmor but from a Thalmor supporter's point of view because evrything else Ive read is pretty much anti-Thalmor

[dtmwerks]

It's from a book called Rising Threat, which starts as an account of the destruction in Summerset, then turns into a very critical account of the Thalmor, from a Mer who fled the destruction at the Crystal-Like-Law and eventually came to the Empire. I'm using it mainly as a source of Oblivion Crisis lore, not so much for its view on the Thalmor, which seem somewhat deluded and biased to me, despite what people are bound to say about me being deluded and biased not the author, who's sanity itself could be in question as a result of the trauma he endured at the Crystal Tower.

Yeap thank you. Does anyone else think battles like this could be turned into cinematics? I know TES aren't known for stunning cinematics and such, but imagine picking up certain history books, and being either transported to play in the battle, or just enjoying a nice cutscene. Only on the first part, but it's still pretty epic to imagine the storming and defense of the crystal tower.

[Chaos the N'wah]

At least the orcs have some nice missions with their various strongholds throughout skyrim. Seems like a lot more than what they had in Oblivion. The only orcs I remember in Oblivion was Mazoga and various ones in the fighter's guild.

The stronghold quests are great, Skyrim does a great job of giving us a glimpse of Orcish society outside of being in Daedric coven or at the other end of a pointy stick. Even Morrowind gave us little, even though it was their premier as a playable race, most Orcs in Vvardenfel were Smiths for the Empire, random Daedric worshipers, or hired muscle. The Strongholds are a good example of a little can go a long way.

[OblivionDuruza]

I reckon it could be incredibly effective in a cinematic, if handled well. The brutality of the situation, the fear, the loss of hope. If people think the situation in Cyrodiil was bad, think of the accounts we've heard of Summerset and Morrowind, where the destruction was so astounding and they did not have a Champion to save them. It's like Kvatch all over on a larger scale, the destruction of the Crystal Tower, of Ald'rhun, etc.

I guess that it's this action that makes the Thalmor more than a simple tyrannical machine in my eyes. In the past, the Thalmor was the only thing that could oppose the Empire on a grand scale. Of course the Empire of men should fear and distrust them, they have every reason to do so.

[dtmwerks]

Wow I just finished reading it. This whole time I was under the impression that the Thalmor saved Summerset Isle from the Daedra, but it was actually Martin Septim! Very interesting....

A little support for the thalmor just disappeared ):

Great read though, puts a lot of things in perspective for me. Very opportunistic the Thalmor are. Don't know how they managed to be there at the perfect time, surely they couldn't have known when Martin Septim would throw Dagon and his daedra back into Oblivion.

Seems like a lot of "good guys" get assassinated quite easily. Would love to see/hear some high ranking Thalmor assassinated. At least the Emperor is still alive. They need better security over there -.-

[OblivionDuruza]

Yeah, well I am cautious in believing all the books claims, although I can totally see the Thalmor assassinating Ocato to undermine the Empire, and removing those that speak out against them. It's how they have achieved power. There's no denying they are brutal, but effective. it's the price you pay, you cannot achieve power without stepping on somebody's toes.

[Berzerker]

Yes, they have achieved... the world record for having the biggest ego! Duruza, the Thalmor have committed genocide. What did they do in Imperial City? What have they done to Talos worshippers. Hitler persecuted Jews, the Thalmor persecute Talos-worshippers.

No that was war and no they're dealing with people intenionally breaking a law that is not persecution.Seriously I hate the Thalmor but the Hitler comparisons regarding the Talos ban are moronic.

[The Dog Whisperer]

The suppression of Talos worshippers is obviously a parallel to the aggressive atheism in modern society.
Now we just need to find out who the Richard Dawkins of the Aldmeri Dominion is.
lol
I enjoy that the Thalmor open up more possibilities for posting on here in the role of a haughty Altmer (Best thing ever) and they're definitely the "Mythic Dawn of Skyrim" in regards to how the game shows them, but I guess if everything was presented objectively we'd have a pretty bland world.
But I think expanding on the Thalmor is probably the most likely thing for a DLC we can expect. Hopefully the quests will have a branched path.

[Will Zurmacht]

Despite Beth's best attempts to stereotype the Thalmor as the Big Bads of the game, I still want to like them. Besides the Empire, they're the only faction with the stones to take a shot at hegemony. But the question is: do they really want to supplant the Empire as worthy rulers of Tamriel (it is merely a question of strength, not "rights")? Or do they just want to wring out concessions from the Empire to rule over an elven-only country club in the southern part of the continent? In which case my esteem for them would drop precipitously.

[N'wah Nern]

So can you join or support the Thalmor? One of them just offered me a mission to find evidence of Talos worship and report back to him (I said No, but as I different character I might accept it). Is that the only mission like that or is there more? I wonder how much you can get out of an elitist Thalmor run, given that Bethesda seems to have made them to be the primary villains.

[OblivionDuruza]

There is no Faction, and I have only come across that one Quest in Markath that you mention. Maybe some DLC or something will let us do more, but at this point it's fairly limited to roleplaying.

[ThE cHoSeN oNe LDB3]

I dont like the Thalmor because they banned the worhship of Talos but sine they did nearly destroy the whole Empire i respect their military smarts.

[perylousdemon]

I made an effort to like them--or at least not hate them outright--on my mage. Needless to say, the College questline made up my mind for me.

[Frost Mage]

I really think that their worship of Talos is really more based on their hatred of the Nords, then it is of other religions. The Mer being very multi-faceted themselves with multiple religions, I would suspect that they definitely have alternative motives.

As far as politics, the Thalmor are in a place of unusual struggle, fighting an almost uphill battle against the Stormcloaks, since they really have no real power in deciding to go to battle, or take over a base, or anything. The Imperials only house them and promote (or accept) their beliefs, and use it to their advantage, as IIRC besides Talos, there aren't any other religious debates going on between them.

Like has happened throughout history, the Imperials will most likely be more prepared and more well armed for future battles, and therefore will continue it's heritage of almost exploited power.

[ArotosMarkos]

You aren't SUPPOSED to like the Thalmor. Your character has no choice in regard to whether or not to consider themselves an ally or supporter, and it is thus not intended to be subjective. Every questline that involves them results in their being the antagonists. I'll confess, this bothers me a touch. It is strange to see passive (in terms of gameplay mechanics) Altmer established as the objective evil, and though I'd prefer to have the choice of whether or not I'd want to ally myself with them, they're supposed to be paralleled to the Mythic Dawn in Oblivion.

[strobacaxi]

I like the Thalmor just as much as I like the Empire or the Stromcloaks, and I am rping a Thalmor character. I think it's somewhat foolish not to try and gain a better understanding for the Thalmor, along with both sides of the War, which is why I've got characters for each, and I've endeavoured to put aside the potentially in-you-face side of the unnamed Thalmor NPCs, to actually get to know those with actual characters.

I can say I prefer the Thalmor to the Stormcloaks, but I'm not super happy with them, even though they have proven to be both Mer of action and Mer of strategy. They've achieved a lot and I'll respect them in that fact.

How do you RP a thalmor? Is there a way to join them or fight them?

[OblivionDuruza]

There is no way to join the, but just because there isn't doesn't mean you can't roleplay as a member. I just avoid the Main Quest so I don't have to infiltrate the Embassy, and I side with the Empire, acting as a double agent, if you will, for the Thalmor, aiming to rise through the ranks and keep an eye on Tullius. I've also joined the College of Winterhold, to fill a similar role to Ancano, if a little more covert.

[dtmwerks]

I made an effort to like them--or at least not hate them outright--on my mage. Needless to say, the College questline made up my mind for me.

I put a certain someone's soul in a lil black soul gem of mine (:

[Will Zurmacht]

You aren't SUPPOSED to like the Thalmor.... they're supposed to be paralleled to the Mythic Dawn in Oblivion.

They're more like the Enclave in FO3 if anything. Far reaching political and military program, advanced technologies and tactics (in the Thalmor's case, coordinated magic use), superiority complex combined with a lust to dominate, etc. Contrast that with the Mythic Dawn, which was just an eschatological assassin's cult that wanted eternal bliss for its members through making a literal deal with the devil.

[OblivionDuruza]

And the fact that the Thalmor aren't the enemy, per se, the Dragons are. Sure the Blades are being hunted by the Thalmor, but in the words of Delphine:

We've hurt them in the past and they have long memories

. The Blades deserve it in a way, and they know it.