Does anyone LIKE the thalmor?

[dtmwerks]

I know there are MANY different variations on roleplaying. From priest to dual wielding warriors, but does anyone roleplay or like the Thalmor? Bethesda just went out of their way to make them the most unlikable faction I've ever seen! Not even racists in todays world are THAT in your face about it! I just think they could've shown some diversity in Thalmor (good AND bad people in their faction), and that maybe some truly believed they would rule better and more fairly and productively than the Empire, and want peace. Instead of EVERY single one insulting you every chance they get. about how elves > men. It sure makes it obvious that you're not supposed to like them though.

The other thing that breaks immersion for me is that, I AM A HIGH ELF, and they still treat me like s*** and call me "citizen". I didn't choose be a high elf just to get in good with them, but when I realized what was going on, I thought being of the same race that is trying to take over Tamriel would have it's benefits. Nope. Thalmor hate me AND the racist nords hate me >.<

[OblivionDuruza]

I like the Thalmor just as much as I like the Empire or the Stromcloaks, and I am rping a Thalmor character. I think it's somewhat foolish not to try and gain a better understanding for the Thalmor, along with both sides of the War, which is why I've got characters for each, and I've endeavoured to put aside the potentially in-you-face side of the unnamed Thalmor NPCs, to actually get to know those with actual characters.

I can say I prefer the Thalmor to the Stormcloaks, but I'm not super happy with them, even though they have proven to be both Mer of action and Mer of strategy. They've achieved a lot and I'll respect them in that fact.

[The_Noob]

It's because you're some ugly non-Summerset High Elf, and the Thalmor are sexy Summerset natives.

[dtmwerks]

It's because you're some ugly non-Summerset High Elf, and the Thalmor are sexy Summerset natives.

LOL Oh I see how it is.

[POMC S117]

Duruza, you can tell a lot from a person if they respect people for being elitist, racist and a bunch of stuck-up, fascist, right-wing, ugly-ass, magic-using High Elves that make Hitler look like an equalist.

[Mithrandir]

I for one can not stand the Thalmor. Its not because they're Altmer (who I really despise) but its because of their whole "I dont like who you worship, now you die". I stongly believe that no one has the right to punish someone because they dont agree with their religious views. If the people of Skyrim want to worship Talos, let them be. No harm can come from it. And besides who are they to tell you who you can or can not worship?

[POMC S117]

Duruza, I thought you would be one for religious-tolerance.

[OblivionDuruza]

POMC, what is the definition of respect?

Admire (someone or something), as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements.

I don't respect their morals as much as their action. They have achieved so much for the Mer, and they have earned respect, and caution.

But again, I think it's very narrow-minded to see the Thalmor as only elitists. And I see the Hitler parallel as just ignorant, because the Thalmor have not committed genocide against anyone.

The Thalmor are opposed to Talos because he is a false god who embodies the strength of men. The banning is partially strategic and partially theological, just as the Stormcloaks support of Talos is partly strategic and partly theological. True Nordic theology supports Ysmir no Talos.

[dtmwerks]

I for one can not stand the Thalmor. Its not because they're Altmer (who I really despise) but its because of their whole "I dont like who you worship, now you die". I stongly believe that no one has the right to punish someone because they dont agree with their religious views. If the people of Skyrim want to worship Talos, let them be. No harm can come from it. And besides who are they to tell you who you can or can not worship?

A lot of smart people have hinted or suggested that the Thalmor deliberately chose Talos, because it knew it would divide Skyrim and the Empire, and hopefully start a civil war. They were right =/

Skyrim's and the Empire's best option is to work together, and they're doing the exact opposite because of Talos. It's interesting that the Thalmor decided on the Talos ban, but the Empire has to enforce, making them BOTH look like the bad guys. When really, it's only the Thalmor. But there are lots of arguments against mine of course.

[POMC S117]

Yes, they have achieved... the world record for having the biggest ego! Duruza, the Thalmor have committed genocide. What did they do in Imperial City? What have they done to Talos worshippers. Hitler persecuted Jews, the Thalmor persecute Talos-worshippers.

[Mithrandir]

I like the Thalmor just as much as I like the Empire or the Stromcloaks, and I am rping a Thalmor character. I think it's somewhat foolish not to try and gain a better understanding for the Thalmor, along with both sides of the War, which is why I've got characters for each, and I've endeavoured to put aside the potentially in-you-face side of the unnamed Thalmor NPCs, to actually get to know those with actual characters.

I can say I prefer the Thalmor to the Stormcloaks, but I'm not super happy with them, even though they have proven to be both Mer of action and Mer of strategy. They've achieved a lot and I'll respect them in that fact.

I agree that they achieved a lot and reluctantly I do respect them for that. But one thing I can not respect is the fact that they have no religious tolerance. I thought the Altmer were proud of the fact that they're civilized? Well in my opinion a civilized person has respect for other's religious beliefs.

[dtmwerks]

POMC, what is the definition of respect?

Admire (someone or something), as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements.

I don't respect their morals as much as their action. They have achieved so much for the Mer, and they have earned respect, and caution.

But again, I think it's very narrow-minded to see the Thalmor as only elitists. And I see the Hitler parallel as just ignorant, because the Thalmor have not committed genocide against anyone.

The Thalmor are opposed to Talos because he is a false god who embodies the strength of men. The banning is partially strategic and partially theological, just as the Stormcloaks support of Talos is partly strategic and partly theological. True Nordic theology supports Ysmir no Talos.

It is unfortunate that the Thalmor came to power, but I do understand that it was them who saved their lands during the Oblivion crisis. Sometimes in a crisis, the people choose the conservative "bad guys" to lead the way cause they're seen as stronger.. Hitler is kind of a stretch, maybe a better comparison is the US during the bush era. After 9/11, racism and conservate policies greatly increased, and are still pretty high even today (airport security, mosques in NY). But I digress, I hope this won't turn into a discussion of American politics

Like I said, they probably should have more diversity in the Thalmor, since there are so few named on to interact with, at least for me so far. They would be more realistic as a faction if they're motives were more clear, and that they actually showed some respect towards some people, ESPECIALLY elves. If you're going be a racist, do it right!!

You know, if anything, the Thalmor should be against daedra worship and the like, since it is because of them (dagon supporters) that he was able to enter the mortal realm, and the dragonfires were out, etc etc. It would be interesting to see them try to outlaw that too, or hunt them down as well. Perhaps have some stationed outside some shrines trying to take them down.

[Ryuhza]

I for one can not stand the Thalmor. Its not because they're Altmer (who I really despise) but its because of their whole "I dont like who you worship, now you die". I stongly believe that no one has the right to punish someone because they dont agree with their religious views. If the people of Skyrim want to worship Talos, let them be. No harm can come from it. And besides who are they to tell you who you can or can not worship?

That really comes down to the Thalmor being butthurt.

[Chaos the N'wah]

I respect their power and tenacity, if anything I'd say their pragmatic approach towards their goals makes them easy to dismiss as an evil dynasty, making their creative and ambitious tactics in war much more of a surprise.

I think Farengar stated that only fools dismiss something unknown to be impossible, following that abstractly: only fools dismiss their enemies as weak or single-minded, the Blades learned that the hard way.

[OblivionDuruza]

I think you're fairly spot on dtm. The move was aimed to incite tension and violence, and divide the Nordic populace. The Thalmor do not care so much what others believe, although they will never recognise Talos themselves and are insulted by him. The Thalmor are schemers and planners its how they turn a relatively small military into such a powerful force. It worked too didn't it?

Equally, the Stormclaoks used the banning as the supposed catalyst for their rebellion, which they had been planning regardless, as they simply want to take back Skyrim for the Nords. I doubt if their general actually care that much about Talos in the grand scheme of things.

@POMC, all that has been said for the IC is that they killed the inhabitants and extracted revenge for what the Empire did to the Altmer. That is not the systematic destruction of a populace or sub-populace.

@Mithrandir. See my first point in this post ^

[Mithrandir]

I for one can not stand the Thalmor. Its not because they're Altmer (who I really despise) but its because of their whole "I dont like who you worship, now you die". I stongly believe that no one has the right to punish someone because they dont agree with their religious views. If the people of Skyrim want to worship Talos, let them be. No harm can come from it. And besides who are they to tell you who you can or can not worship?

A lot of smart people have hinted or suggested that the Thalmor deliberately chose Talos, because it knew it would divide Skyrim and the Empire, and hopefully start a civil war. They were right =/

Skyrim's and the Empire's best option is to work together, and they're doing the exact opposite because of Talos. It's interesting that the Thalmor decided on the Talos ban, but the Empire has to enforce, making them BOTH look like the bad guys. When really, it's only the Thalmor. But there are lots of arguments against mine of course.

If only the Empire and Skyrim can open up their eyes and see who the real enemy is and unite to fight this common enemy. I definitely dont see the Empire as bad guys, I see them as puppets of the Thalmor really. Actually I feel sympathy towards the Empire

[unokitsune]

Even when I played on my Altmer I hated the Thalmor and made sure to wipe them out on every mission that had me deal with them.I have gathered more than one write or whatever it is they write to order my death and I'm quite happy their armor makes me alot of money.

Tough they have achieved alot and even in oblivion you would hear rumors about the tublient struggles in Summerset Isles, they still caused grief and mass murder. There are some in Markath who won't shut up and say "The worship of talos is strictly forbidden" yet if I kill them I have doodoo to pay because they are right in front of the war guy in the civil war map in markarth

I still hate them

Plus the Thalmor remind me of the stories of the Ayleids and how they treated lesser mer and men alike.

[Mithrandir]

I think you're fairly spot on dtm. The move was aimed to incite tension and violence, and divide the Nordic populace. The Thalmor do not care so much what others believe, although they will never recognise Talos themselves and are insulted by him. The Thalmor are schemers and planners its how they turn a relatively small military into such a powerful force. It worked too didn't it?

Equally, the Stormclaoks used the banning as the supposed catalyst for their rebellion, which they had been planning regardless, as they simply want to take back Skyrim for the Nords. I doubt if their general actually care that much about Talos in the grand scheme of things.

@POMC, all that has been said for the IC is that they killed the inhabitants and extracted revenge for what the Empire did to the Altmer. That is not the systematic destruction of a populace or sub-populace.

@Mithrandir. See my first point in this post ^

I have to agree, it did work

[dtmwerks]

I for one can not stand the Thalmor. Its not because they're Altmer (who I really despise) but its because of their whole "I dont like who you worship, now you die". I stongly believe that no one has the right to punish someone because they dont agree with their religious views. If the people of Skyrim want to worship Talos, let them be. No harm can come from it. And besides who are they to tell you who you can or can not worship?

A lot of smart people have hinted or suggested that the Thalmor deliberately chose Talos, because it knew it would divide Skyrim and the Empire, and hopefully start a civil war. They were right =/

Skyrim's and the Empire's best option is to work together, and they're doing the exact opposite because of Talos. It's interesting that the Thalmor decided on the Talos ban, but the Empire has to enforce, making them BOTH look like the bad guys. When really, it's only the Thalmor. But there are lots of arguments against mine of course.

If only the Empire and Skyrim can open up their eyes and see who the real enemy is and unite to fight this common enemy. I definitely dont see the Empire as bad guys, I see them as puppets of the Thalmor really. Actually I feel sympathy towards the Empire

Some spoilers for the join the imperials quest.

You sympathize even more when you talk to the general or more importantly, the female legate there who is in charge of you joining. Although I can't remember specifics, when you ask here about the Thalmor, her position in all of this, and if she actually likes the Thalmor, she says something like, "that's enough soldier" or something like that, to imply that barely any imperials support the Thalmor, they're just under their thumb, and when they rebuild their forces, will fight them again. Also the fact that she can't openly talk about that sort of thing.

While talking about immersion though, it would make sense for a few imperial soldiers to actually direct their hostilities towards the Thalmor, instead of ONLY the stormcloaks "sword arm getting flabby, been forever since I killed a stormcloak." I mean, it wouldn't be unrealistic for the faction that got stuck with a terrible treaty cause they almost lost a war, to hate the "victors" (thalmor).

[OblivionDuruza]

Chaos gets where I'm coming from, in a way I think. Knowledge is power, and I would love to understand the Thalmor and their inner workings.

But dtm is on the right track too, as far as that whoever you side with in the Civil War, you are still exposed to a lot of Thalmor hate, because the Stormcloaks hate Mer and the Empire hates the fact that the Thalmor bested them. I think there might be less mindless hate for the Thalmor if we were actually shown their side of the story.

[Mithrandir]

Its sad how they dont wake up and fight the real enemy.

Edit: @Duruza: It would clear up a lot of things if we heard the Thalmor's side of the story

[dtmwerks]

It's interesting that the Empire/legion and the stormcloaks try to gather support for their cause through whatever means they can, but you never see the Thalmor clamoring on about how their cause is just and right. They kinda keep to themselves, I guess they also don't want outsiders?

[Chaos the N'wah]

Chaos gets where I'm coming from, in a way I think. Knowledge is power, and I would love to understand the Thalmor and their inner workings.

I respect them like I do the Telvanni, I may hate some of their practices, but I respect cunning and power. I still hate them though, mostly because of the Elsweyr debacle. I am sick of the Man v Mer, when will it be the beast races' turn?

[Mithrandir]

It's interesting that the Empire/legion and the stormcloaks try to gather support for their cause through whatever means they can, but you never see the Thalmor clamoring on about how their cause is just and right. They kinda keep to themselves, I guess they also don't want outsiders?

Probably because theyre really desperate

[kgnmike88]

i agree with most comments here i cant stand there arrogance! everytime they talk down to me i want to smite them all! test even my saint characters patience!