A Little disappointed in gameplay

[j31c3n]

I love the staggering amount of replies in this thread that are essentially, "You are playing incorrectly if you can't win with your eyes closed and one hand tied behind your back on novice. Just do better."

How do you people get off literally telling other people how fun should be had?

[stormbringer]

I love the staggering amount of replies in this thread that are essentially, "You are playing incorrectly if you can't win with your eyes closed and one hand tied behind your back on novice. Just do better."

How do you people get off literally telling other people how fun should be had?

It just goes to show that common sense isn't too common

[JVElEven]

Heh, and you believe you do? You don't even have common courtesy. I may be so ridiculously wordy that I'm not easy to read, but I'll sum up what I've been saying, just for that one guy who didn't understand what I was saying, and then you, stormbringer, who, sadly, insists on seeing the argument from your viewpoint.

I see what you're getting at, but in case you didn't notice, I've argued for the middle way all the time. Again, as Chaos said, it's a matter of taste. It's not that open minded either by j31, since really I've seen only one comment being "YOu're an idiot". Most have opened a discussion saying that they disagree, and if you can't handle that, you shouldn't have put it up on the boards for discussions. If you made an entire thread to post four things you don't like, and get upset when people disagree with you, then I will be reluctant to keep wasting my time on this.

I say, as I've said all the time: They had to choose an extremely difficult middle way, something they did admirably. I respect you opinion that you think Novice is too hard. Personally, I believe you might just have chosen some unlucky dungeons, but hey, you're free to think what you like. I just disagree. It's not as easy as Oblivion's easiest, but Oblivion was cakewalk.

1: If you, j31, really can't comprehend that these arguments are mostly personal experiences of the same subject, and thus telling of what they felt like and how they got on and/or solved the issue, then please be kind and leave.

2: As enyamer said, just because you CAN go anywhere, it doesn't mean you should. I personally believe this is why you think it's too hard, but it doesn't make the game less freeform. You are free to go up against a giant at level two if you feel like it. It's just not a good idea. A bit like attacking a wraith with an iron dagger.

[Zexks]

"Morrowind and actually found it to be EASIER than Oblivion" - Stormbringer

Now I know your lying. You really found missing with melee, failing to cast spells, failing to create enchants (without paying an NPC to do it), having to switch between melee and magic combat (unable to use both simultaneously), no map markers, no compass arrows, no fast travel, no horses all easier than Oblivion? The only way this game is harder than Oblivion, on any but the highest setting, is if you ignore the level ups. Or if you create and Altmere mage stick him in heavy armor with a dagger and try to chop everything down. What do you want, a one hitter quitter game? If you want it easy, be an Orc with a big hammer and just slug everything down. Maybe if you told us about some of the problems, and what you tried, we could point out why it's been difficult for you. As for immersion in the story, you (your character) is the story. How immersive would it be for the savior of the world to just walk through everything and never be challenged. Why would you need a hero in that situation anyways.

[JVElEven]

Okay, that last one there wasn't exactly constructive either, but most of them still were articulate suggestions.

[enyamerT]

Well, Morrowind did have a way to get your choice of uber-weapon at level one.

[Frost Mage]

I don't care what's fun for other people, just don't come crying to me when Morrowind is too hard for you.

[MARS]

All right, after reading the first two page I just had to jump in.

You all fail to grasp the point strombringer tries to make. He doesn't dissagree with the difficulty being more difficult at higher settings. He disagrees with the game being too difficult at the lowest setting. I still haven't played the game, but I'm pretty sure I'll agree with everyone that higher difficulty is a kiss from the heavens. Yet still, there are those that are not hardcore gamers, that do not want to learn Nirn's lore, that do not want to use tactics. They just want to jump in without thinking, do some cool stuff, save and turn the console off. And that's fine, to each their own. Not being able to do that is not good for Bethesda. Why? Because marketing. If everyone can play, everyone will buy. Capichè?

And yes, I still read the Skyrim section >.>
Sod off!

[Zexks]

"If everyone can play, everyone will buy. Capichè?"

Uhh no they won't. How many characters in Hello Kitty Island Adventure or Lego Land do you have?

[Frost Mage]

I don't care what's fun for other people, just don't come crying to me when Morrowind is too hard for you.

Well, Morrowind did have a way to get your choice of uber-weapon at level one.

That's why I love Morrowind. You could potentially get full Glass armor from level 1, but that would mean you would have to travel all the way to Ghostgate.

[Frost Mage]

Well, Morrowind did have a way to get your choice of uber-weapon at level one.

That's why I love Morrowind. You could potentially get full Glass armor from level 1, but that would mean you would have to travel all the way to Ghostgate.

[Zexks]

"If everyone can play, everyone will buy. Capichè?" -Mars

Uhh no they won't. How many characters in Hello Kitty Island Adventure or Lego Land do you have?

[MARS]

"If everyone can play, everyone will buy. Capichè?"

Uhh no they won't. How many characters in Hello Kitty Island Adventure or Lego Land do you have?

Are those part of the best selling RPG series in the world? Nope, didn't think so.

[JVElEven]

That's a bit of a generalization, Mars, you have to give in on that. I mean, CoD is a best-selling shooter game, and everyone can probably play that as well, but not everyone buys it.

[Nevastar]

Can I ask why some people (Such as Mars and Stormbringer) are really worried about Bethesda's profits? Why does the thought of not so many people buying Skyrim bother you so much? If Skyrim is too hard for you or others, then that's too bad. No need to be scared about people not buying it? I doubt that Bethesda is gonna go bankrupt because Skyrim is a challenging RPG...

[MARS]

Because more sales = more money = better games.
Other than that, I wonder why I even came into this thread. Obviously, arguing about Skyrim's difficulty is going to get your head cut off or something. Is it really that hard to see that Bethesda could have included an "insanely easy party mode" just for others to play? Would that really bother you? Others would be able to enjoy Skyrim in their own way and the rest of us would be able to enjoy our hardcore RPG. But I digress, casuals shouldn't be able to play, you're quite right.

[JVElEven]

But they do have a point. Maybe that would make a potential VI worse.

[Akiraka]

I'm not going to read every tid-bit in this flame war, hah, but, I'd like to elaborate on a few key points

>If you can't play the game easy on Novice, I'm sorry, but I would indeed say "ur d0ing it rong". Between followers, damage-increasing Perks, the ease of Sneak (and it IS easy; I'm sneaking effortlessly with no Perks and Heavy Armor on Adept), vastly improved bow damage, which happens to have perfect synergy with Sneak, Magic Runes, Poisons, and Potions, one should be able to use a cobination of them and sleep through most of the game's encounters.

A constructive example: The difference between wearing a helmet(just the helmet) and not for my character, after taking two Heavy Armor Perks? 100 AR. My AR jumps from 201 to 320 because of Perk Synergy, and now most melee attacks all but bounce off. I thought the game was quite hard at first as well (both of my first random dragon encounters ended in narrow failure, and the first Companion quest I got had me chugging so many potions in combat I was completely disenchanted. Two Armor Perks and some Smithing later, and melee all but bounces off of me.
Point: The game gives you outs, if you know where to look for them.

>Morrowind WAS easier than Oblivion, depending on your play-style and gaming background. People who cry about to-hit rolls weren't raised on Baldur's Gate and other such masterpieces... that's hardly Morrowind's fault. I personally swam through Morrowind even with my first character. I had to completely re-evaluate my playstyle and Class build (Lockpicking leveling me up "too fast" [what's that garbage?]) before I could get through Kvatch.

>I can't believe I'm alone on the menus O.o They look like Win Vista LT menus or something. I want a journal with easily-accessible tabs, sort orders, and a real, book-looking journal. Hell, I'm supposed to be a Nord, they couldn't fashion the UI on runes and tablets? Maybe something like Oblivion's journal, with a stone-textured back-drop? Come on.

[JVElEven]

Well, it looks more flowing, and the ledger from Oblivion was time consuming and dragged the speed out of the game.

[Nevastar]

Because more sales = more money = better games.
Other than that, I wonder why I even came into this thread. Obviously, arguing about Skyrim's difficulty is going to get your head cut off or something. Is it really that hard to see that Bethesda could have included an "insanely easy party mode" just for others to play? Would that really bother you? Others would be able to enjoy Skyrim in their own way and the rest of us would be able to enjoy our hardcore RPG. But I digress, casuals shouldn't be able to play, you're quite right.

I'm not sure which is worse though; no Elder Scrolls games, or Elder Scrolls games becoming easy and casual.
An "insanely easy party mode" would've been a lovely addition, I'm sure, but as it happens, Bethesda didn't put that in the game. Too bad. But now casual gamers are upset because they want the game to be tailored to fit their n00b playing. If the easiest difficulty is too hard, then you can get over it, and try to get better at the game, or leave and find another game to play.
And why should it be easy, anyway? It's not meant to be an easy game series, so it may as well be hard, for actual RPG players to enjoy. If you like to roll through a game without a challenge, then you've picked the wrong game series, mate.

[Evil-i]

If I understand the point the OP is making about Skyrim's Difficulty options, he's saying:

-Even at Skyrim's lowest difficulty, it just isn't "right" for a casual gamer, or for someone (be he/she a casual gamer or someone who's usually a more dedicated RPGer) who just wants to step into the gameworld and noodle around for a few hours for some light entertainment and time-wasting.

I must agree with the point being made, that the lowest difficulty level should embrace the casual gamer or temporary noodler and keep the game fun and accessible for their purposes. Difficulty settings are a person choice, and there should be at least one in there to satisfy you. In no way do harder-core elitists need to avail themselves of the simpler options; the game should be fun for all, instead of fun for some and drudgery for others. And, in no way, should anyone be criticized or looked-down upon for their personal choices when it comes to enjoying their game.

I'm hoping that the edge will be taken off the difficulty issue as gamers grow into the game, at whatever difficulty level is right for them. Games can be like new boots, some tend to be a bit harder to break-in than others.

[MARS]

*sigh*

Do you comprehend what I am saying?

Others would be able to enjoy Skyrim in their own way and the rest of us would be able to enjoy our hardcore RPG.

Why not please both us and the others? Why just us? It doesn't mean that ES will become easy and casual. It means that it will be accesible to everyone. Besides, as I said I haven't played the game yet and I've no idea how difficult it actually is. So, if I find out that novice difficulty is in fact laughable, I'll come back and say it.

[Nevastar]

*sigh*

Do you comprehend what I am saying?

Others would be able to enjoy Skyrim in their own way and the rest of us would be able to enjoy our hardcore RPG.

Why not please both us and the others? Why just us? It doesn't mean that ES will become easy and casual. It means that it will be accesible to everyone. Besides, as I said I haven't played the game yet and I've no idea how difficult it actually is. So, if I find out that novice difficulty is in fact laughable, I'll come back and say it.

Do you comprehend what I am saying?
I agree with you on that! But while that would be great, it didn't happen!
So I wish casual gamers would stop complaining and wanting the game to be easy. If it's going to be hard or easy, it should be hard. However if Bethesda modify the difficulty settings to be more diverse, that would be wonderful and everyone would be happy and eat cupcakes and dance, etc.
But until that happens, casual gamers should accept that the game series is not supposed to be aimed at them.
I haven't played it either, actually. And to be honest, I doubt it's that hard on novice. But we shall see.

[MARS]

Ah, I misunderstood you then. Sorry if I came off as an ass, I don't seem to be functioning correctly.

[Velothi]

Oh, and Nevastar, that doesn't seem to fit...

You basically think the game should be only for people who are hardcore?

That honestly depends on the definition of hardcore. We had a debate like this of what Todd meant when he said he wanted Skyrim to be for 'hardcore' players.

Hardcore can mean you play it and love it or you seek challenge or anything.

If you're going to rabble on about how it's too difficult, then one must see how it's come. Morrowind and Oblivion were both at odds of the scale one being too easy and the other too hard.

The personal preference of which was which is entirely up to the player.

But since the OP, I prefer how Chaos described it.

This thread? It means nothing in comparison to gameplay mechanic faults and all such events.

It is merely a personal preference of what should have been, how it is too difficult or too advanced. (Then really, are not all games advanced at one point? Even in Oblivion, though rarely after level 9, you could get killed if you did something stupid. Here, same thing.)

Games are meant for enjoyment, critique, and ultimately symbolism on the world. And Skyrim is FULL of Symbolism that I can actually make a critique on. (11-11-11? Great War? Veterans distraught and angered at the war? This is Symbolism of the First World War in a Roman perspective, and it is SHOVED at you at times. Others it appears naturally.)


But even then, the lowest difficult should have (as the term is) difficulty. It shouldn't be some cakewalk that people want for a easy walkthrough.

Hell, I more than once got angered at the difficult. (Veets and Avron can be personal witnesses and share their own testimonies.)

But, in the end? I enjoyed the game and the challenge. It makes you think, strategize , and ultimately come up with unique ways of how to play and enjoy oneself.

And this thread has basically boiled down to a personal-preference war of what should be this and what should be that.

It was doomed to be this in the beginning.