A Little disappointed in gameplay

[stormbringer]

Before you judge, hear me out. There are a few things that I feel really took a step back in gameplay from Oblivion and wonder if anyone else noticed. (this is for XBOX 360)

1. Speed, yes they implemented a run button, but it lasts only as long as your stamina bar. I wish there was a way to increase speed permanently.

2. 3rd person. The camera doesn't pull back far enough to get a better view of your surroundings. In Oblivion in 3rd person the camera was roughly 25% further back than in Skyrim. I found 3rd person VERY useful when just traveling the countryside looking for things, and in dungeons for finding stuff.

3. The menus. UGH. Not a fan of the system. Supposed to be more streamlined, yet I find it a bit more tedious to do what I need it to do.

4. Finally, the most game-breaking for my family, the DIFFICULTY. In Oblivion you could adjust the slider all the way down and it was a VERY easy game to play. In Skyrim, even on Novice the enemies can kill you in 1-2 swipes. This is just unacceptable. My wife and daughters LOVED Oblivion due to them being able to just pick up the game and play, but in Skyrim this is IMPOSSIBLE. They were very disappointed in seeing me walk around and discovering places and having to flee from enemies because they were almost impossible to kill. At level 3-4 a frost troll can take 40 swipes of a sword, but can kill you in 2-3 swiping blows. And keep in mind this is on NOVICE. Forget even trying to take on a giant or mammoth. Even some basic enemies feel like long drawn out boss battles.

I can understand some of the ideas, but I feel they implemented them poorly. Don't get me wrong I LOVE THE GAME, but I feel they made too far of a jump in some things (difficulty curve), and 10 steps back on some (movement, menu control, camera). Feel free to leave feedback, as this is just MY OPINION, but I am just confused as to why they would take this approach. Bethesda has always made great games, and I have enjoyed them all but I feel like some of the elements in Skyrim were harvested from Morrowind and just don't "complete" this game.

The graphics are probably the best I have seen on any current generation console, and hope that Bethesda continues making more elder scrolls games. Again this is my opinion, so please don't take it as I am trying to bash the game.

[Rhcpftw]

I don't know about you mate but I do love a challenge. Don't you worry, I think you'll get used to these kinds of things. What I will agree on though is that there are some difficulty spikes - Some enemies are killed with one charged lightning bolt - raise difficulty, and you barely even scratch other enemies - lower difficulty.

[Vendetta]

1. I like the idea of it. How much more unrealistic is it to sprint everywhere? I feel it is very balanced

2. Mine goes back very far, I don't know what kind of problem you're having

3. More of a matter of opinion, I can understand if you do not like it but I get used to things fast so I never had a problem.

4. Combat is useless if there is no tension in it. I love how elder scrolls is hard again. You can only get better if you are challenged, you don't need mommy and daddy to walk you through it.

[FrostyInferno016]

1. Speed, yes they implemented a run button, but it lasts only as long as your stamina bar. I wish there was a way to increase speed permanently.

Try looking for the Steed Standing Stone and activate it; it allows you to run unencumbered by any armor you have equipped; made a huge difference for me, because I specialize in Heavy Armor, yet I'm usually running faster than most NPCs.

2. 3rd person. The camera doesn't pull back far enough to get a better view of your surroundings. In Oblivion in 3rd person the camera was roughly 25% further back than in Skyrim. I found 3rd person VERY useful when just traveling the countryside looking for things, and in dungeons for finding stuff.

You can customize your view point in 3rd Person. Once in third person, hold the right-stick down and use the left stick to zoom in or out. You can pull back quite a distance that way.

3. The menus. UGH. Not a fan of the system. Supposed to be more streamlined, yet I find it a bit more tedious to do what I need it to do.

Have you been using the Favorites feature? Anything that you use more than often, you can add to that. You just press up/down on the d-pad, and it brings up anything/everything you have on it. It's a little slower than Oblivion's favorites feature, but it's a bunch quicker than the full menu.



As far as the difficulty..it is what it is. It gets easier the more perks you earn, though.
Let me know if you have any questions...

[Narzul]

The difficulty is the greatest thing to have happened in my opinion. Skyrim is not a casual game. Thank the Gods for that.

[Fiar]

1. Sprint is fine, I can't really think of a downside to it, truly. I hear ya when you speak of permanent speed increase, but I think this way is just as fine.

2. Haven't used it, so I can't say, lol.

3. This is worse on PC to be honest, they didn't think when they made the PC UI, it's horrid. I guess it is either way.

4. Ya know ,I vastly prefer the slider bar as well. Why it was removed, I can't even begin to reason. It allowed you to tweak the game's difficulty to your ideal range. It was very flexible. When it comes to challenge though, I'm sort of a sadist as I like a great challenge. And if I can't beat them, I'll come back when I can, how I view it. I understand this isn't everyone's preference though, and I still prefer the difficulty slider.


I will add that I am disappointed in no spell-making system that adds variety to spellcaster combat, tsk tsk.

[Mac of Four Winds]

The difficulty is rough for the first 15 levels or so. But I've found after you start collecting magical weapons and armor the game starts to balance out a bit. The combat perks help out too. I think the game has to be difficult to a degree in order for the perks/powers/shouts to feel effective and not overpowered. As far as the speed goes, in Oblivion you could out run everything and back pedal your way to victory. But now you must stand your ground and fight. I like it that way. On a side note, that's why I think shields are a must in this game. You need to cut down the damage the enemy can do or you die... a lot.

[stormbringer]

Again the difficulty isn't for me, but my family. Basically Bethesda has created a game that my wife and 2 daughters can't play. My daughters are 13 and 15. They ARE casual gamers and not having a difficulty that they can play on basically stops them from playing Skyrim, which is a travesty as it is a REALLY good game. Basically the other stuff I mentioned are more minor annoyances, but the difficulty thing has really hindered the audience they can sell to. Hopefully they can either adjust the creature enemies to level with the player, as the "humanoid" enemies do, or they can adjust the difficulty stats of the enemies.

[Narzul]

13 and 15?

You do realize the game is rated M, right? For Mature? They shouldn't be playing it anyway.

[Vendetta]

I'm 14 and the difficulty doesn't bother me at all!

[Nevastar]

The Elder Scrolls games aren't meant to be casual games. I'm glad that Skyrim is hard. Heck, in Daggerfall and Arena it took me an hour to get out of the starting dungeons (Damn that skeletal warrior!)
These games are RPGs, and although Bethesda are already changing them to be much more casual, they should never be anything less than hardcore, time consuming, sweaty-palm inducing (new terminology, oh yeah) nerd games in my opinion.
And as for sprinting, it's nice that way. You can't sprint forever in real life.

[born2beagator]

I had a 20 minute fight with a Dragon today who was probably 5 levels higher than me (I was level 6 at the time). it took extensive strategic use of Argonian water breathing to hide while my magic recharges to win without dying. Sure it was hard, but when I finally killed it it was very satisfying.

[Ethelred]

I haven't found it difficult at all. Maybe because I've only really levelled my combat skills though.

And I agree with Narzul, your daughters shouldn't even be playing the game.

[scribbane]

Whether or not his daughters play the game is his decision. He clearly knows what the game is about, so if he is comfortable with them playing, good for him. I think more parents should know as well as he does the games their children are playing.

But I digress. Stormbringer, I haven't had issues with anything you mentioned. I do think the game is more difficult than Oblivion, but I think that is a bit of personal preference as to whether or not it is good or bad. I personally love the fact that it is harder, but I understand why some people don't like that. I would have to say that this game is probably not for casual gamers. Its a full, in depth, RPG. Not something I usually equate with casual. That said, if your daughters want to play, more power to them, but its not the games fault for being what it is.

[JJKG]

My problem with the difficulty is that I killed a Dragon without too much difficulty at level 5, but then I black bear comes along and takes 3 hits to kill me. It's just a bit nonsensical.

[j31c3n]

I agree with the OP about the difficulty setting being a big bummer.

And all this "it's harder, deal with it" doesn't help The Elder Scrolls as a franchise. If the game being too hard hurts sales, that makes it take longer for there to be another TES game. The game needs to be accessible to casual gamers and challenging to longtime TES fans at the same time and there is absolutely NO REASON AT ALL why it cannot do both at once. Whining that a game can be too easy is like saying "Wah, other people are having fun! This disgusts me!"

People can enjoy a game in different ways. Some people like challenging gameplay and find it rewarding to overcome a nearly impossible situation. Other people would rather breeze through the fights and drink in the beautiful storytelling. Some people like challenging gameplay AND storytelling. It is the place of no one to dictate to others precisely how they should have fun.

As a side note, I play on the hardest difficulty setting.

Game ratings are suggestions, not laws, and if a parents wants to let their child play an M-rated game, that is their choice. As a kid who played Doom at age 6, I can say with bias that I don't think it can cause a problem.

[CriminalScum]

Before you judge, hear me out. There are a few things that I feel really took a step back in gameplay from Oblivion and wonder if anyone else noticed. (this is for XBOX 360)

1. Speed, yes they implemented a run button, but it lasts only as long as your stamina bar. I wish there was a way to increase speed permanently.

2. 3rd person. The camera doesn't pull back far enough to get a better view of your surroundings. In Oblivion in 3rd person the camera was roughly 25% further back than in Skyrim. I found 3rd person VERY useful when just traveling the countryside looking for things, and in dungeons for finding stuff.

3. The menus. UGH. Not a fan of the system. Supposed to be more streamlined, yet I find it a bit more tedious to do what I need it to do.

4. Finally, the most game-breaking for my family, the DIFFICULTY. In Oblivion you could adjust the slider all the way down and it was a VERY easy game to play. In Skyrim, even on Novice the enemies can kill you in 1-2 swipes. This is just unacceptable. My wife and daughters LOVED Oblivion due to them being able to just pick up the game and play, but in Skyrim this is IMPOSSIBLE. They were very disappointed in seeing me walk around and discovering places and having to flee from enemies because they were almost impossible to kill. At level 3-4 a frost troll can take 40 swipes of a sword, but can kill you in 2-3 swiping blows. And keep in mind this is on NOVICE. Forget even trying to take on a giant or mammoth. Even some basic enemies feel like long drawn out boss battles.

I can understand some of the ideas, but I feel they implemented them poorly. Don't get me wrong I LOVE THE GAME, but I feel they made too far of a jump in some things (difficulty curve), and 10 steps back on some (movement, menu control, camera). Feel free to leave feedback, as this is just MY OPINION, but I am just confused as to why they would take this approach. Bethesda has always made great games, and I have enjoyed them all but I feel like some of the elements in Skyrim were harvested from Morrowind and just don't "complete" this game.

The graphics are probably the best I have seen on any current generation console, and hope that Bethesda continues making more elder scrolls games. Again this is my opinion, so please don't take it as I am trying to bash the game.

1. Yeah, I agree. But it's not really game breaking or a major problem.

2. Hold down the right thumbstick and move the left thumbstick up and down to change the 3rd person zoom.

3. I found the menus difficult at first, but I got used to them and now I find them a lot quicker.

4. The old difficulty could have been implemented without changing much, sucks that your wife/daughter can't play anymore. But to be fair people who can't play the game on the new novice difficulty aren't the target audience at all. I for one welcome our new more challenging TES.

[j31c3n]

But to be fair people who can't play the game on the new novice difficulty aren't the target audience at all. I for one welcome our new more challenging TES.

A narrow target audience is almost never good for a property like The Elder Scrolls.

[Akiraka]

1. Speed, yes they implemented a run button, but it lasts only as long as your stamina bar. I wish there was a way to increase speed permanently.

Trying hard not to flame, just upgrade your Fatigue. It's a central part of combat anyway. Someone else mentioned The Steed Stone.

2. 3rd person. The camera doesn't pull back far enough to get a better view of your surroundings. In Oblivion in 3rd person the camera was roughly 25% further back than in Skyrim. I found 3rd person VERY useful when just traveling the countryside looking for things, and in dungeons for finding stuff.

This has been addressed.

3. The menus. UGH. Not a fan of the system. Supposed to be more streamlined, yet I find it a bit more tedious to do what I need it to do.

Good God I couldn't agree more. Aside from looking quasi-futuristic, making them look VERY out of place, they're ugly, don't even fit on my TV, and my game lags anywhere between one to ten seconds every other time I even bring the damn thing up. The whole UI blows. Period.

4. Finally, the most game-breaking for my family, the DIFFICULTY. In Oblivion you could adjust the slider all the way down and it was a VERY easy game to play. In Skyrim, even on Novice the enemies can kill you in 1-2 swipes. This is just unacceptable. My wife and daughters LOVED Oblivion due to them being able to just pick up the game and play, but in Skyrim this is IMPOSSIBLE. They were very disappointed in seeing me walk around and discovering places and having to flee from enemies because they were almost impossible to kill. At level 3-4 a frost troll can take 40 swipes of a sword, but can kill you in 2-3 swiping blows. And keep in mind this is on NOVICE. Forget even trying to take on a giant or mammoth. Even some basic enemies feel like long drawn out boss battles.

One of the things I've noticed about the enemies in Skyrim is that they all have lower Health than they feel like. While a lot of them hit hard, some of them tremendously so, (I'm thinking Snow Sabre-cats) they also will die if you just stay in pocket, drink a few Health pots, and Power Attack away.
I think Bethy meant not, though, to try and PVE the whole game alone. Followers are readily available, and Sneaking has never felt easier. Add in with Bows' new found strength, and there are really several ways to take on the game. It gets easier, trust me.

I can understand some of the ideas, but I feel they implemented them poorly. Don't get me wrong I LOVE THE GAME, but I feel they made too far of a jump in some things (difficulty curve), and 10 steps back on some (movement, menu control, camera). Feel free to leave feedback, as this is just MY OPINION, but I am just confused as to why they would take this approach. Bethesda has always made great games, and I have enjoyed them all but I feel like some of the elements in Skyrim were harvested from Morrowind and just don't "complete" this game.

Bolded for truth. While this game is amazing, it really feels to me more like Two Worlds 3 than the spiritual successor to Morrowind and Oblivion. Not compared to its big brothers, Skyrim is incredible, but I share your frustration in wondering how, when coompared to its big brothers, so many things in Skyrim were changed or seemingly overlooked.

The graphics are probably the best I have seen on any current generation console, and hope that Bethesda continues making more elder scrolls games. Again this is my opinion, so please don't take it as I am trying to bash the game.

I'm on the 360, so I can't really agree there. The creatures look better (i.e. not like damn cartoon characters *coughoblivioncough*) but, overall the graphics remind me more of Two Worlds'. Given the scope of the game, though, I can hardly be dissapointed.

[Conzeq]

The difficulty - too hard?
EXACTLY what the series needed. This is just what the series needed - that there aren't always the same creatures (depending on your level), and that you aren't supposed to go everywhere at low levels.

[Velothi]

1. Speed, yes they implemented a run button, but it lasts only as long as your stamina bar. I wish there was a way to increase speed permanently.

Why? That'd ruin gameplay as no one can run forever. The game attempts (like all Elder Scroll games) to have a stamina bar to be semi-realistic. This is the farthest they've gotten, and since I'm guessing you haven't played Morrowind to say Skyrim is somehow a step back from Oblivion gameplay which was a mess of mechanics and scripts.

2. 3rd person. The camera doesn't pull back far enough to get a better view of your surroundings. In Oblivion in 3rd person the camera was roughly 25% further back than in Skyrim. I found 3rd person VERY useful when just traveling the countryside looking for things, and in dungeons for finding stuff.

Hence why first person is first person, it's easier to see and fight in eye view than back view. It's still possible, just sometimes a bit more difficult.

3. The menus. UGH. Not a fan of the system. Supposed to be more streamlined, yet I find it a bit more tedious to do what I need it to do.

The quest system is at least sorted so we can have all our miscellaneous quests in one area and main quests in their own part. As well as having the choice of having an arrow pointing us the way or not.

4. Finally, the most game-breaking for my family, the DIFFICULTY. In Oblivion you could adjust the slider all the way down and it was a VERY easy game to play. In Skyrim, even on Novice the enemies can kill you in 1-2 swipes. This is just unacceptable. My wife and daughters LOVED Oblivion due to them being able to just pick up the game and play, but in Skyrim this is IMPOSSIBLE. They were very disappointed in seeing me walk around and discovering places and having to flee from enemies because they were almost impossible to kill. At level 3-4 a frost troll can take 40 swipes of a sword, but can kill you in 2-3 swiping blows. And keep in mind this is on NOVICE. Forget even trying to take on a giant or mammoth. Even some basic enemies feel like long drawn out boss battles.

There are several things to comment about this. One, the Dovahkiin is not some kind of mystical god that can somehow (by the Gods!) take down every single enemy on the first try. Giants and Mammoths? They're suppose to be harder enemies at the beginning levels. And you know what? We (a majority of Elder Scroll players) said Oblivion was too easy for us. The challenge is not only a opening and welcoming change, but it makes the game more interesting.

Even with a casual gamer, it can be interesting. Besides, can you (also) not kill draugr's in a few swipes? It merely depends on the enemy, which can be more difficult because they're a type of enemy who has an advantage or merely stronger than the average humanoid.

[SilentPsycho]

Just wondering, what platform are you playing on? If it's PC, just stick God Mode on for your wife and daughters. That way, they can run and explore wherever they want without having to worry about it.

[Pavouk106]

I can agree with some of mentioned things.

1. I have wondered just today morning if there is some way to raise speed. As I understand, there isn't. What a shame, but I will live without it.

2. No problems with camera, I think it's better than the one in Oblivion.

3. Menus - You just have to get used to it, I'm still learning.

4. Difficulty. Well, to be honest, I got killed at level 10 by Sabre cat, at level 8 by some bear, had to run from Ice troll at level 9, almost got killed by Ice wolf on the same level... Maybe I have just developed really bad character, but I don't think so. It seems like standard enemies on the roads are meant to be killable, but enemies away from roads should be stronger (I encountered Sabre cat, Spriggan, Bear and so on in the wild, not on the road).

I think this is generaly good, because you just have to work on your character. It's not like in Oblivion - until level 6, there are only wolves and you can kill them by one hit, nothing stronger.

In Skyrim, you have to take care where you go and what you encounter. And if you encounter something strong, you have to make use of your stamina - run! I have run from some battles that I couldn't survive in other way.

I like it, it reminds me of Morrowind. There were dungeons you shouldn't enter without proper equipment and skills, otherwise you were dead right after you have encountered the first enemy there.

Simply - there is challenge in it.

[MasterRokon]

13 and 15?

You do realize the game is rated M, right? For Mature? They shouldn't be playing it anyway.

Ugghh i hate people that say that, yes its for mature, maybe they are, but still not 17/18 to be considered mature, even though they may be mature for their age. Hell maybe even more mature than some 18 year olds.

[stormbringer]

Guys, guys, guys, you are missing my point. I'm not saying make the game a cakewalk on all difficulty settings. I'm saying that the novice setting is more like the having the slider 3/4 of the way to the right in Oblivion. As far as I'm concerned the hardest difficulty setting should make you want to rip your hair out and cause rage inducing controller throwing. All I was saying is that there should be a setting that casual gamers can actually ENJOY the games immersive story and scope and not worry about randomly getting killed by a surprise attack that makes them restart and lose 30 minutes of exploring/leveling.

As for the guy that said my daughters shouldn't be paying this game. REALLY? I am pretty confident that YOU had watched a rated-R movie before you were 17 and possibly played other games other than Mario before you were 17. I believe in guiding my children, not sheltering them. Also just a FYI, the ESRB rating are SUGGESTIONS, not requirements.

Now for people saying that "this is what the Elder Scroll franchise needs" concerning the difficulty. This statement is one of the worst I have ever heard. Do you understand WHY we have Skyrim? It's because Oblivion was easily accessible to a wide range of players. With the learning curve SO FAR between Oblivion and Skyrim this turns off buyers and causes sales to decline. People on forums have a hard time understanding that they represent about 1% of the entire community that actually plays the game. This is by no means the majority of how a game should be. I have 100 people on my friends list and none of them are on this forum, and about 30-35 of them have Skyrim. at LEAST 20 of them have already returned it due to the difficulty gap.

A game is NOT fun to the masses if all they do is constantly die and get frustrated. I myself sometimes like to just PLAY a game and not worry about every little thing. Usually when I get a game I will put it on the easiest difficulty setting and go through and get all the achievements and after the first playthrough I turn up the difficulty and challenge myself. This is where the difficulty gap comes into play. A player should have the option of making the game tailored to their skill level. Not all gamers are adept (pun intended) at mastering a RPG game with it's in depth character building and leveling system. Turning off gamers to a franchise to appease 5% of the community is the worst idea anyone can think.

If the skill gap doesn't get changed The next Elder Scrolls game will either never be made, or made by another company (shudders in pajamas) and gets totally re-invented for the worse.