Imperial or Stormcloak

[ThE cHoSeN oNe LDB3]

What side did you go with?

[Frogmander]

Completely your decision.

[Lord Elvewyn]

Far too early for me but I'm curious to see how the sides stack up.

Imperials are portrayed as tyrants being used by the Aldmeri Dominion. Obviously they meet out harsh justice, though as my head's still attached to my shoulders I might be willing to forgive and forget. I've seen the Elven\Thalmor hitsquads running around, also killed a few of them when they violently object to my religious utterances. Their armour makes for a nice tithe. The collaborators are supposedly un-Nordlike, due to the wealth they've earned.

Stormcloaks are supposed to be racist, Skyrim for the Nords, anti-Elven. Not sure how true this is. May be fairly limited culturally. Bardic arts etc not appreciated just raw steel. Oh, they're led by an assassin which is disturbing. Supporters say it was a fair fight but using the Voice against someone that lacks it isn't a fair fight.

Still plenty of the world to explore so my perceptions of the truth and propaganda of things may be wrong.

I know magic displays seem to unnerve the local guards and they're just ordinary Nords not supportes of either side.

Anyone able to give fuller descriptions of the actual and propaganda views of the two sides?

[Velothi]

Well, Ralof pretty much shows a proof against the Stormcloaks being 'racist'.

Spoiler:

He says, direct quote, "Any can join the fight to free Skyrim."

I think the things against the Empire can be seen by following Ralof and seeing the torture chamber with various people. (Both Mages, and Stormcloaks)

Vice versa - the same can probably be said if you follow the Imperial. (I followed the Stormcloaks)

It seems that the Nords in Skyrim are basically fighting an oppression that even the Septims were not capable of.

Spoiler:

When you go to Riverwood, Ralof's sister says that the Imperial regime actually banned the worship of Talos. Yes. THE Talos. So, either the Imperial Regime is being directly manipulated by the Thalmor court, or the Imperial regime is going to make a cult-of-personality out of its Emperors.

With the Imperials, they doubtlessly see themselves as the defenders of order and peace. Even Stormcloaks and Stormcloak sympathizers say that the Empire 'was' good for Skyrim once upon a time. Now, however, it isn't The Empire might be divided into, "The Empire is the only way to unite all of Tamriel!" or "We must all follow a single regime, as we are all Tamrielic."

Plus with Ulfric "murdering" the High King (Stormcloaks disagree, they said he killed him due to ancient traditional challenge of right. The High King lost, thus he didn't deserve to be High King.)

So kinda like the Dunmer-traditions of challenging an opponent to an honorable duel. (Mostly Redoran practices this, but Hlaalu and Telvanni partake in it as well.)

Both sides have a justification, but Stormcloaks are for the more noble and Sir William (Scottish Knight who fought against the British) type, as well as revolutionary type. The Nords are obviously oppressed, and several reactionary and revolutionary qualities will arise.

Such as Racism (which the Stormcloaks will maintain most likely and not abuse it), the poor masses revolting, religious aid, and all uniting for a free Skyrim.

Therefore, the reactionary elements of the Imperials will arise due to the fact that Skyrim MUST remain apart of the Empire. Oppression, Repression, killing innocents, and so on.

[Taters]

The Empire is doing all it can to fight the Aldmeri Dominion. Yes, they banned Talos worship, and at the demand of the Dominion, but only because they know they can't win a conflict for the time being, and want to avoid war until they feel they have the advantage. The Empire feels that if Skyrim breaks away, it would not only weaken Imperial defense, but it would leave Skyrim standing on its own, and ripe for conquest by the Dominion.

As far as racism, I don't recall hearing either side level that charge, but I have heard a few Nords shout "Skyrim for the Nords!", which could obviously be construed as racist and xenophobic. Also, on the flipside of what Velothi said, I recall more than one person telling me that anyone is welcome to join the Legion. I also recall a Dunmer farmer telling me he was born and raised in Skyrim, but that the Nords treat "them"(his words) as trash.

What actually happened between the King and Ulfric is(as far as I've gotten), a mystery, but the only people so far who contend it was an honorable duel are Stormcloak supporters(obviously), so it's hard to tell the facts. However, if there's no solid proof it was a duel, there's little the Empire can do but treat it as murder, which it certainly appears to be.

[zzfallens]

I'm currently a part of the Imperials right now. From my time exploring Skyrim I've concluded that I didn't want to be apart of the Stormcloak rebelion, and here's why.

1) The Stormcloak's power is far less than the Imperial's. Their capital is no where near as wealthy as Solitude.

2) Most of Skyrim's population just want peace, which makes it seem that Ulfric only wants to take over because he wants power.

3) The Empire doesn't do much wrong. They just want to rebuild Skyrim and secure it as a peaceful state. Ulfric and his minions play them up to be these bad guys when they really aren't.

Also, the Empire seems to know a lot more about the current events, or they just care more than Ulfric.

[Velothi]

The Empire is doing all it can to fight the Aldmeri Dominion. Yes, they banned Talos worship, and at the demand of the Dominion

That doesn't seem like all it can to fight them - as it is willingly submitting to them and allowing Altermi "military advisers" (as I call them) help them in the Nordic War for Independence.

Now this is ignoring the fact that the Empire is feudalistic and an Empire. The Empire is not seeming to talk much (from what I've seen) about the Altmeri Dominion.

And the Nords aggression to this is because the Nords do not want to be apart of the Altmeri caste-system once again. Hell, that is why they are so hostile to any Elven-people. Because the Altmer colonization project brutally oppressed them, and set them off as anti-elven.

The same can be said for the Imperials who took it even farther.

To have a Imperial-hegemony rather than a Elven one.

, but only because they know they can't win a conflict for the time being, and want to avoid war until they feel they have the advantage. The Empire feels that if Skyrim breaks away, it would not only weaken Imperial defense, but it would leave Skyrim standing on its own, and ripe for conquest by the Dominion.

Skyrim withstood the Elven when Redaysnia existed and when the First Dominion existed.

Plus I'm all too sure the dragons are not just in Skyrim, but in all of tamriel.

Besides, to deny the Nords right of self-determination is to deny them all the rights and privileges of any living being in Tamriel.

As far as racism, I don't recall hearing either side level that charge, but I have heard a few Nords shout "Skyrim for the Nords!", which could obviously be construed as racist and xenophobic.

Nordic Bandits say this, but then so did Dunmer also say this (bandits and such) as well did Imperials say that any other are scum.

The problem is that the Stormcloaks are not a all happy bunch, and they likely want a Skyrim run by the Nords and For the Nords.

Ergo, Skyrim for the Nords.

Also, on the flipside of what Velothi said, I recall more than one person telling me that anyone is welcome to join the Legion. I also recall a Dunmer farmer telling me he was born and raised in Skyrim, but that the Nords treat "them"(his words) as trash.

I'm not going to deny there's racism in Skyrim. Nor that anyone can join the Legion (But that has been a fact since Morrowind). But, the problem is that the issues between the Dunmer and the Nords has intensified due to the fact that both have presented themselves as aggessors towards one another.

Nords to Dunmer during the Nordic occupation of Morrowind and Dunmer to the Dunmer-persepective of being the only 'true' civilized people.


So, imagine now all the Dunmer Refugees coming in. Not only with the Nords feel threatened (due to the fact that Morrowind as fell and Dunmer are coming east) but the fact that the Dunmer have done little to nothing for them.

I'm not for Nordic racism, and I'm entirely against it. But the Dunmer, and Nords, have not been in the best conditions. So they tried to adapt. They did it wrongly.

What actually happened between the King and Ulfric is(as far as I've gotten), a mystery, but the only people so far who contend it was an honorable duel are Stormcloak supporters(obviously), so it's hard to tell the facts. However, if there's no solid proof it was a duel, there's little the Empire can do but treat it as murder, which it certainly appears to be.

Well, its really odd. The Imperials and Imperial supporters see it as murder.

Stormcloaks and Stormcloak supporters (admirers of tradition) see it as an ancient practice.

But we don't know about the King really, but we do know that the Imperials really liked him. This means he wasn't benevolent as much as an Imperial-supporter.

In my honest opinion? I don't care if he was murdered or not, all I care for is the freedom of the Nordic people.

[Thunderstruck elf]

My plan is stormcloaks.

[zzfallens]

can someone reply to my question thankyou

Wrong thread, sorry.

[Velothi]

-double posted-

[FrostyInferno016]

Well...for my part, I...

Spoiler:

found a marching-party of three Thalmor and a Nord-prisoner west of Solitude. I questioned the leader and why he was leading away a Nord through the woods all secret-like, and he said that the prisoner was "suspected" of worshiping Talos, a crime of heresy since "men cannot be gods". I told him that was crap (paraphrasing), and that I could worship whomever I chose. He then attacked me leading me to Thu'um him and then cut him to pieces

...

Just saying...don't tell me who to worship

I'm for the Stormcloaks; anyone who tucks-tail and supports the Thalmor deserve a coward's-death.

[Kestral]

Stormcloak, simply because the Empire is no longer the Empire. Getting trounced by an upstart Colovian warlord?
Succumbing to the demands of the Aldmeri Dominion and renouncing Tiber Septim? Make the Nine the Eight? Agree to an outright persecution to those who worship Talos by not even Imperial hands?

Terrible stuff. If they never agreed to the White-Gold Tower Concordant, than we'd never have this Imperial v Stormcloack discussion.

[Ezkaton]

I took the Stormcloak side and completed that questline. Very enjoyable, I must say.

[ThE cHoSeN oNe LDB3]

In windhelm some people say that Ulfric does not trust anyone that is not a nord and has put the dark elves in the worst part of the city and does not care.

[MattFlan]

I fought for the Imperials. I'm a Breton, but after just a few hours I was already sick of the rude and arrogant Nords.

[OblivionDuruza]

Honestly, I'm still not sure, although I did side Hadvar during Unbound, simply because he seemed like one of the nicer people I will meet in Skyrim. Even so, I'm not sure which I will choose, partly because I feel no love for either side, and also because I want to investigate rumours I've heard irl that Jarl Stormcloak isn't as nice as he could be to the Dunmeri populace of Windhelm.

What I can say for sure is, I'll be playing both, the Stormcloaks as a Nord and the Empire as an Altmer. I will reserve judgement until a later date, however I think overall I'm leaning towards the Stormcloaks as far as my opinion irl.

[Fajita!]

For proof of the Stormcloak racism just ask around the ghetto of Windhelm.

Turned my elf off of joining the stormcloaks.

[POMC S117]

I joined the Stormcloaks because originally I thought that the Imperials were bad. It turns out that, in a way, I was wrong. Also, I don't like the Stormcloak armour. But, I do like the primitive look of it.

[born2beagator]

Honestly, I'm still not sure, although I did side Hadvar during Unbound, simply because he seemed like one of the nicer people I will meet in Skyrim. Even so, I'm not sure which I will choose, partly because I feel no love for either side, and also because I want to investigate rumours I've heard irl that Jarl Stormcloak isn't as nice as he could be to the Dunmeri populace of Windhelm.

What I can say for sure is, I'll be playing both, the Stormcloaks as a Nord and the Empire as an Altmer. I will reserve judgement until a later date, however I think overall I'm leaning towards the Stormcloaks as far as my opinion irl.

Being an Argonian, I am sold on the stormcloaks right there

[paflick]

I went with the Stormcloaks, and I absolutely loved that questline. I intend to try out Imperials when I get a chance, but my Nord will be a higher level by then. =P

[FrostyInferno016]

Unfortunately the Nords are sometimes a little too simple with their responses, and an elf is an elf sometimes...Their downfall. I'm still a Stormcloak because I'm tired of the Empire and the Thalmor telling me what to do..

The only two things I enjoy about the Empire are (1) Solitude..absolutely beautiful..and (2) their standard of armor over the Stormcloaks. Of course, when you're rich (like the Empire) you're generally going to have access to all the better equipment.

[Ysmir]

What you all are failing to see is The Empire is keeping out the Dominion.
Yes there are Thalmor agents but The Empire keeps out the large masses of the Thalmor who are ready to go into Skyrim and make the Nords pay.
Ulfric independence is only a short-term solution.....Once they break apart the Thalmor will have free reign to fight them.
The Empire on the other hand are regretful of the ban on Talos but they realize certain things must be sacrificed for the time being in order to secure long-term peace and POSSIBLY a chance to unite once again. I love the nords but The Empire is thinking long-term and sorry but if the Nords fall to the Thalmor they are no good to themselves or The Empire.

[Kestral]

What you all are failing to see is The Empire is keeping out the Dominion.
Yes there are Thalmor agents but The Empire keeps out the large masses of the Thalmor who are ready to go into Skyrim and make the Nords pay.
Ulfric independence is only a short-term solution.....Once they break apart the Thalmor will have free reign to fight them.
The Empire on the other hand are regretful of the ban on Talos but they realize certain things must be sacrificed for the time being in order to secure long-term peace and POSSIBLY a chance to unite once again. I love the nords but The Empire is thinking long-term and sorry but if the Nords fall to the Thalmor they are no good to themselves or The Empire.

The only Imperial provinces left are Cyrodiil and High Rock, and the province of Skyrim is debatable now.
Hammerfell seceded when the Empire agreed with the White-Gold Concordant to give the Aldmeri Dominion large parts of it, and Elsywyr and Blackmarsh have seceded before that. In addition to that, Blackmarsh has conquered a shattered Morrowind. Let's not forget to mention the exclusion of Valenwood and Summurset Isles. Unity and any chance for semblance of that can no longer be conceived.

[Ysmir]

Not to sound cliche but there is always a chance.
If the people want to unite and fight they will....but any province thinking they can single hand take on the Thalmor are nuts.
I rather have an Imperial fighting beside me than having no one beside me.

[FrostyInferno016]

Skyrim has never been conquered..Not since the Nords founded it. They have always, historically, successfully defended their mountainous realm.

Just sayin...