Killing the Gray Prince, murder?

Reckless · Post by **Reckless** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:08 pm

I'm in the Grandmaster fight with him now, and I've completed his quest so I can kill him without effort. However, when I slay him, it gives the message that I murdered him and that unknown forces (Dark Brotherhood) have observed it... I don't want to murder him (that is, kill him but not being registered as murder! And I certainly don't want the DB to come near me, I want absolutely no murders.

So is this a glitch? How can I prevent it?

Thanks a lot!

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:13 pm

It is sort of a glitch, but techically correct.

Since he does not actually fight back, it is Techically a Murder, you attack him first. The only way to fight him, and not get a murder charge, is to not do the Gray Prince Quest. The he will fight you, thus no murder.

Sorry, but you probably have to load a save, from before you did the Gray Prince Quest.

The Silent Argonian · Post by **The Silent Argonian** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:19 pm

Or, sleep somewhere, and when Lucien comes simply tell him that you don't want to be in the "family" I've never denied the DB, so I don't know what will happen, but I'm sure that it would work.

Dark Spark · Post by **Dark Spark** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:21 pm

If you can assuage your conscience to having that one murder on your tally sheet, you can continue forth and ensure the Dark Brotherhood never bothers your character again. There's an obvious way to do it, and the opportunity will present itself soon enough.

Plus, you'll get a free set of pretty black robes and a hood...

The Silent Argonian wrote:Or, sleep somewhere, and when Lucien comes simply tell him that you don't want to be in the "family" I've never denied the DB, so I don't know what will happen, but I'm sure that it would work.

Seeing some many varied responses in so many incarnations of this offer, I'll tell you that refusing Lucien's offer verbally will not work. If you tell him "...I'm no murderer!", he doesn't believe you and presses his offer nonetheless. No, you will have to be more—direct—in your refusal.

Or you can simply fail to do what he asks. You'll be stuck with a crummy knife forever and ever, but at least the thing has zero weight.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:25 pm

The Silent Argonian wrote:Or, sleep somewhere, and when Lucien comes simply tell him that you don't want to be in the "family" I've never denied the DB, so I don't know what will happen, but I'm sure that it would work.

If you deny him, he will leave you alone. ...or as long as you do not kill the first target, you never actually join. You have to make the first kill to actually join, although, you do still have that quest in your quest log.

lowbart · Post by **lowbart** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:26 pm

I think if you never kill Rufio, the DB just ignores you.

It's not a glitch that killing the Grey Prince counts as murder. It's a decision you have to make. There's not many important decisions in Oblivion besides what class you start out as.

Reckless · Post by **Reckless** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:21 pm

Hmm, what if I use the sanguine rose and let a daedra kill him, will that work? I don't want any murders comitted by me, it's part of the roleplaying.

Dark Spark · Post by **Dark Spark** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:27 pm

I think that maybe a long-duration custom poison might kill him without assigning blame on you.

Anfauglith126 · Post by **Anfauglith126** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:28 pm

If you frenzy him?

ArotosMarkos · Post by **ArotosMarkos** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:31 pm

Dark Spark wrote:Kill him.

Fix'd!

DorostheConqueror · Post by **DorostheConqueror** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:39 pm

Yeah, denying him doesn't work, he just says something like "Oh? We'll see about that". He gives you the quest to kill Rufio no matter what you say to him, but as long as you don't go kill the guy, you're straight. Just forget about the DB and they won't bother you again- Sithis doesn't need quitters anyway!

Virtue Of Apathy · Post by **Virtue Of Apathy** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:51 pm

Killing the Grey Prince is how I joined the dark brotherhood. For some reason though I got a few murders in while killing bandits! That I don't understand.

Has anyone tried to walk out on the fight when you talk to the Grey Prince in the arena?

Vesna · Post by **Vesna** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:00 pm

Maybe while killing bandits you managed to strike a finishing blow to an orc adventurer or something of that nature?

Dark Spark · Post by **Dark Spark** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:00 pm

ArotosMarkos wrote:
Dark Spark wrote:Kill him.
Fix'd!

Oh, dearie: you're not supposed to tell the good little boy what to do. You drop hints, lead him along with vague suggestions that pop back into his mind when the situation does open before his innocent little eyes...

...that way, when he finally does what you want him to do, you've fully swayed him to that course of action by making him believe he came up with the idea all by himself.

Kavatch99 · Post by **Kavatch99** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:25 pm

LOL!

But yeah, no matter what you tell Lachance, the guy will still give you the crummy dagger and instruct you to off Rufio.

But, like the quest log suggests, if you simply leave Rufio alone, you won't have to worry about the DB anymore.

Here's a helpful hint to not get a murder when fighting the Grey Prince after doing his quest: Stay where you are by the door that leads to the Bloodworks and let the Grey Prince charge all the way to you and stop. Then, you can kill him w/o a murder.

Reckless · Post by **Reckless** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:16 am

Kavatch, does that really work? And can anyone confirm that the sanguine rose trick will work? I not worrying about the DB itself, but I just don't want the murder registered. No murders for my character.

Dark Spark · Post by **Dark Spark** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:24 am

My word of advice is not to get hung up on your character's tally sheet. After all, every sneak attack you land also happens to count as an Assault, no matter how evil the target was.

If Murder is really something you want to avoid on your sheet, pay close attention to that Mages' Guild quest where you retrieve the Necromancer's Amulet. Sneak attacks will likely count as murders in Fort Ontus, at least until you get out of that one level where you acquire the amulet.

In the end, it's your experiences with the character that you'll remember, not some numbers on a page.

Kavatch99 · Post by **Kavatch99** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:27 am

Dark Spark wrote:My word of advice is not to get hung up on your character's tally sheet. After all, every sneak attack you land also happens to count as an Assault, no matter how evil the target was.

If Murder is really something you want to avoid on your sheet, pay close attention to that Mages' Guild quest where you retrieve the Necromancer's Amulet. Sneak attacks will likely count as murders in Fort Ontus, at least until you get out of that one level where you acquire the amulet.

In the end, it's your experiences with the character that you'll remember, not some numbers on a page.

I'm gonna have to sig that last line. You mind?

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:44 am

If your goal is to not commit a murder, and you do, then the experience is ruined.

I've read were a few people have completed as much of the game as they could, by being a Pacafict. They did not kill anyone. One person kept a log (topic) and updated it everyday, with how they completed Quests without killing. When wondering in the great wide open, if they were assaulted, they ran, and ran, and ran some more, until there were no attackers following.

They could not complete all of the Quests, but that was not the point. It was to see how much they could do, without having to kill, anyone, or anything.

It was quite an enjoyable read, as they were a pretty good writer too. It was also quite impressive. I was sad to see it completed.

weka · Post by **weka** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:46 am

Any chance you've still got a link to that jeff??

No, not even I'm that much of a pacifist, but def sounds like interesting reading.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:58 am

It was a while ago. I think it was over at the Beth Ob Forums too. That's how far back it was, last year, meaning 2006.

Aradinn · Post by **Aradinn** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:08 am

kill lachance

weka · Post by **weka** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:16 am

Stop with all the killin!!!

If you don't want to DB it's usually because of the bloodshed, so bloodshed to prevent being led into bloodshed??.....

Dark Spark · Post by **Dark Spark** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:56 am

Jeff, I doubt the Pacifist you mentioned will ever have that problem with the Grey Prince, given that he'd never challenge the fellow in the first place. To him, staying out of the Arena Faction would be a win of its own, something to contribute to his own positive experience.

(I might also add that he could complete The Origin of the Grey Prince without any killing, thus sweetening the accomplishment and experience, but disheartening an Orc is far different from assisting him in finding death)

jeff wrote:If your goal is to not commit a murder, and you do, then the experience is ruined.

Only if you allow some number on a character page to define (and thus ruin) that experience for you.

Some people will experience the game through their character's eyes, through their decisions and the mementos they collect along the way.

Then there are those people who are going to fuss over the statistics. Those people tend to have less fun, because they may take a little thing like the ratio between locks picked versus lockpicks broken, or look at a 78-point Luck attribute at the end of a character's maturation, and let that bugaboo gnaw away at their conscience until the game is no longer an enjoyable experience.

Kavatch99 wrote:I'm gonna have to sig that last line. You mind?

Go ahead. Hardly my best work, though.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:29 am

You have lost your L.A. Privledges.