Have Bethesda learned any lessons from Skyrim's pre-release?

[Pobatti]

*** Warning - long post, been brewing up a few days and the Bethesda forum would just close a topic like this ***

It's clear that Bethesda wanted to control the content that the public got to see concerning Skyrim right up to the release on 11.11.11 (most games companies do), but clearly something went wrong somewhere along the line:

- The entire intro was leaked onto the internet a few days ago
- There is a rumor that the entire game was leaked
- Over the last 24 hours there have been numerous live streams of people playing the game
- The soundtrack to the game has been posted to video hosting sites

Now Bethesda is doing it's best to control the situation - they're pulling media down very quickly. The problem is, media is popping right back up just as fast (if not faster) than Bethesda can remove it, and the material that is being posted is getting steadily worse as time goes on - people are actually hosting live streaming of themselves playing the game. It's gotten so bad that the Vice President of Bethesda, Pete Hines' own Twitter account could easily be used as a reliable source of leak URLs since so many people report them to him and the messages are visible for the world to see.

I've never, ever, known a situation get so out of control as this.

Now, these sort of things can happen with any popular game. The problem is made worse by the fact that:

- The game is just so exceptionally popular (there will always be someone breaking the rules/law)
- Not a great deal of information was officially released - which was tightly controlled by Bethesda
- Absolutely no information about the PS3 version, only the PC version specs are known
- No playable demo

I simply can't understand why Bethesda could sit on a great game like this and not allow the public to reach their own conclusions - I'm not saying we should all get the game early, but maybe a bit more than we have been given this time around would go a long way to preventing the sort of problems that Skyrim has faced (or at least reduce the damage somewhat).

Little information leads to paranoia. Paranoia leads to far more interest in leaks than usual - leaks that are low in quality and badly represent the game. Low quality footage puts a lot of people off (one of the biggest concerns) and can overturn the hype machine overnight as soon as the 'this game looks bad' ball starts rolling.

Given the way Elder Scrolls games (and their 'family' including Fallout 3 and similar) are designed, it should be as easy as pie to make a demonstration 'dungeon' that contains ways to try out many of the skills the game has to offer. People would then be able to see the version of the game they're wanting to pre-order before the fact, nobody gets paranoid, bad quality footage has much less impact and people are better able to judge their purchase on release day - unlike PS3 owners who are basically forced to 'pay and pray' if they have any interest in the game at all.

Such a dungeon would simply replace the ESM file (or equivalent), so the download wouldn't be huge. The demo would just be the game's EXE (modified to only work in with the demo ESM), installation files and the demo ESM itself - which could be put together by the team in only a day or two.

Surely with a demo, at least half the people Googling for leaked material (or even 'keeping it up' on the hosting sites) would be too busy enjoying actually playing a short 10-20 minute demo to bother with all this stuff. And any leaks would lose value.

I know we have screenshots, and certain 'edited' footage has been officially released - but I'm sensing major paranoia from the main game forums, GameFaqs message board and a bunch of other places. Many people think that the footage we're getting is being 'vetted' in such a way as to misrepresent the product. An odd couple of glitches spotted in the opening 10 minutes of the game (such as the sliding guard) did nothing to ease those concerns - and in fact made even more people paranoid.

So, when all is said and done, do you think Bethesda learned any lessons from this experience? Might we see the future releases of the rumored Fallout 4 (and even further in the future, Elder Scrolls 6) handled differently? Since many of the leaks seem to have originated purely as a result of the overwhelming need by the community to 'see' a bit more than they were getting, and other people who believe they have a right to make an informed purchase decision before they put down the cash - but have since been dominated by the heavyweight pirates who are taking advantage of the situation to brag to the community that they have the game early.

It's too late for Skyrim, but as far as any future game is concerned - if a demo is out of the picture, what else could Bethesda feasibly do to keep their fan-base sufficiently content but eager, so people remain excited about the game but don't end up getting frustrated or paranoid near release? What sort of strategies do other games companies employ to reduce the need for people to go out and repeatedly leak material or for others to view it and pass the links along?

[Spiney]

Practically every game nowadays has been leaked and broadcasted over livestreams and such.

I remember someone in a private forum I use being banned because they spammed spoilers for Portal 2 when it was leaked. And Minecrafts first pre-release was actually a leak that Notch played along with.

Essentially people are impatient, and not everyone here is going to avoid spoilers and footage like some people here for a perfectly clean first playthrough. Some people just want it now, because life is too hard with out it.

So I can expect a few firings in Bethesda, and some copyright lawsuits and such. And needless to say they'll be taking more precautions.

[Pobatti]

I agree that these sort of things happen to other games, I have never seen anything near the level of chaos that's been brought about so close to Skyrim's release however.

Let's take another highly anticipated game - Mass Effect 3. While the game may be leaked and a couple of people will live stream the game or upload videos, by that point the vast majority of the fan base will either totally ignore them or just not pay quite as much attention as they did on this occasion, for two reasons:

- Plenty of footage, trailers, information (the game is being shown off in it's glory rather than hidden behind heavy secrecy.
- A demo for the game is in the works and should be out by Christmas

So anyone who does leak the game will only post about it for bragging rights - and not as many will care because enough is known about the game, it's system, level of quality, graphics etc from playing the demo or maybe even reading a review a couple of weeks before the game is released rather than after the fact.

In that situation, people would be far more concerned about spoilers to watch something just because they're curious what the graphics look like, or how a particular game feature works.

People do get impatient. Impatient people do crazy things - especially when there are a whole great load of impatient (and paranoid) people out there. Things like demos do a lot to easy the impatience without taking away from the excitement of the release day.

[BabyKiller209]

Even if they had released a demo I'd still have watched the leaked intro. I'd even make the argument that the leaked video and information doesn't really hurt Bethesda or the game in any tangible way. If the leaked intro has done anything, its INCREASED my anticipation to play the game.

And as for the idea that a demo should have been released, I'd much rather they spend the time it would take to fork and test a demo build to get the bugs out of the actual game.

[Pobatti]

Even if they had released a demo I'd still have watched the leaked intro. I'd even make the argument that the leaked video and information doesn't really hurt Bethesda or the game in any tangible way. If the leaked intro has done anything, its INCREASED my anticipation to play the game.

And as for the idea that a demo should have been released, I'd much rather they spend the time it would take to fork and test a demo build to get the bugs out of the actual game.

Everything you've said is perfectly valid.

I do have a rather nasty feeling that this game of cat & mouse between Bethesda and the leaks seem to have made things worse since all that's happened is the people who're leaking the material are getting more and more aggressive because of the way in which Bethesda is dealing with things.

Every time they remove a video, two more spring up in it's place.

That's all down to Bethesda being overly picky about what footage they want the public to see. If Bethesda didn't keep on trying to fight this battle there would probably be a couple of leaked videos out there, there wouldn't be quite as much media attention, and the uploaders wouldn't get all their friends to upload it to about 100 places an hour just to ensure a copy stays their long enough to be seen, prompting message boards to start failing as proper discussion is hampered by the top 5 or 6 topics constantly being bumped to the top either because a video got took down (and then replaced) or people are messaging the address to each other.

Some people are now hosting live streams, not because there's any real need for them at this point, but simply as a single finger salute to Bethesda's efforts in keeping them silenced on numerous occasions.

As you say, it would be preferable to have the team work to get the bugs out of the game before a demo is started worked on - that's obviously most important of all, but since the game went gold a while back (hence all the leaks) it's clear that they're happy the product is complete and through the door - QA will continue to bug-hunt for a while, but the programmers could easily knock together a demo or something to tide people over between then and release date. For example, they could have had the demo be the tutorial dungeon - and simply have the demo end when the player completes that part. Very quick and easy to do - and would give people a real chance to evaluate the game rather than by watching low quality footage.

[SuperNull]

I do have a rather nasty feeling that this game of cat & mouse between Bethesda and the leaks seem to have made things worse since all that's happened is the people who're leaking the material are getting more and more aggressive because of the way in which Bethesda is dealing with things.

What you describe has a name: Streisand Effect
It happened many times before with many things. If you assume that Beth's marketing department is at least somewhat competent, they would know how to avoid it and how to fuel it.
I suspect recent events are not (entirely) unintentional.

[Trelares]

Yeah if you are clever you can use some good set leaks as "free" advertisment, which costs your company nothing. And with than banning the leaks you get even more attention towards your game.

[Spiney]

Yeah if you are clever you can use some good set leaks as "free" advertisment, which costs your company nothing. And with than banning the leaks you get even more attention towards your game.

See Minecraft pre-releases.

Notch handled those well.

[Pobatti]

I do have a rather nasty feeling that this game of cat & mouse between Bethesda and the leaks seem to have made things worse since all that's happened is the people who're leaking the material are getting more and more aggressive because of the way in which Bethesda is dealing with things.

What you describe has a name: Streisand Effect
It happened many times before with many things. If you assume that Beth's marketing department is at least somewhat competent, they would know how to avoid it and how to fuel it.
I suspect recent events are not (entirely) unintentional.

I have to admit, the whole time things have been leaking I've found myself scratching my head - why is it still only the XBox360 version of the game that is doing the rounds? Why not the PS3 game (that nobody has seen yet). I went to a site earlier today that had a live stream, and the guy explained that he was not a pirate but in fact an employee of a game store who had access to the game. Of course it would have to be the XBox360 version.

It wouldn't be strange infact for Bethesda to be doing this - let's face it, they only really promote their games to the fullest up to and around the time of initial release. After that point it's all word of mouth, high review scores and player created mods that drive sales. People still play Morrowind today, not because of Bethesda, but because the modding community is still so active with quality new mods appearing every day.

When you think of all the typical rumors concerning deals with Microsoft, it does seem a little strange to say the least that even the leaks have been of that singular version.

When all is said and done, the commotion had cause a lot of activity on the web, communication between fans and interest in the game to skyrocket - so it did occur to me that Bethesda could theoretically have planned this...

[SpikeSpeigel]

"Leaks"?? C'mon man! We all know what type of mentality fuels big business these days, not to mention politics... All these games have leaks now.

Elder Scrolls are RPG GAMES! When did the mainstream ever really give a damn about rpg's?? Bethy is doing something right.
They know "we" care but, in order to get those "other" gamers certain tactics must be used.

All we can hope is the ES product does not end up too watered down like the latest Dragon Age game.
There are people paid lots of of money to help these companies make lots of money.
Bethesda, Bioware, and whoever the heck is making those CoD and Halo games understand better than any of of us what is at stake upon release of these games.

Maybe they didn't understand it as well back in 2006 w/Oblivion or in '08 w/FO3, but the big dollars CoD raked in opened these peoples' eyes up!
Does anyone even remember a big media blitz associated with those Bethy games???

These companies are like the main Hollywood movie studios where they almost have a monopoly on the industry.
Am I cynical? No. Because I just want to play a good game.
To alot of people, it seems, these are more than just games.... The continual fervor over IPods, IPads, etc. , this industry would like to match that stuff. ($$$)

I'm all for all of this hype if it gets a company with integrity paid (who will then make an excellent product).
I love the excitement over the game the past few weeks but I do have a choice to ignore leaks and (upcoming) reviews.

Don't even mention Fallout 4 man, unless you want to step outside (I kid!, I kid!))

[Mefris Elmek]

The leaking issue has been a problem in the gaming industry for quite some time now.Its a typical process for any AAA game nowadays and for me its not a big deal,I simply avoid any leaked video/information as would any TES fan that wants to enter the game "clean".The real problem is piracy.....I was amazed when a friend of mine showed me you can download Skyrim from a romanian site for the xbox and PS3...At first I thought it was a joke,some kid uploading [&@%!] packs with the Skyrim label on them.Nope....its not a joke....its the full game(for the xbox at least,I don't know if the ps3 version is legit).My friend has been playing it for two days now,I even made him show me the intro so I can be sure.....I wonder if Bethesda is aware of this and if so how they will react....Personally I take it as an insult to there hard work

[MasterRokon]

My question is if its bethy realesing these "leaks", then why dont they make official footage rather than leaks, or is it that leaks give more of a desire for the game than a officialvideo?

[Trelares]

If you assume that some of the leaks are good placed "product placements" from beth, than the answer is, a leak is almost for free, making a video always costs money. I doubt they would leak the full game, but some parts or videos could be possible.

[dubq]

My question is if its bethy realesing these "leaks", then why dont they make official footage rather than leaks, or is it that leaks give more of a desire for the game than a officialvideo?

In an instance where a company would do this, or hire a firm to do it for them, a "leak" is usually intended to become somewhat viral for a short time, resulting in higher traffic and search engine entries as a result of people trying to finding it and not being successful. An "official" piece of footage, etc, usually becomes forgotten about quickly as it can be easily accessed from a ton of different outlets.

[born2beagator]

I am proud to announce that the only Skyrim footage I have watched was the one howard showed us. I ignore the others. The story is completely unspoiled for me

[Commander Xillian]

This reminds me of a few months ago, when the entirety of New Phyrexia was leaked online. Wizard of the Coast chose to go the legal rout and went Gestapo on the web.

[Frogmander]

I haven't watched/seen any of the leaks, I want to see the game on ultra on PC uber-high quality for myself me doing it for the first time. Also "The game is just so exceptionally popular (there will always be someone breaking the rules/law)" I see what you did there...STOP! YOUVE VIOLATED THE LAW! PAY THE COURT A FINE OR SERVE YOUR SENTENCE, YOUR STOLEN GOODS ARE NOW FORFEIT!

[Commander Xillian]

I haven't watched/seen any of the leaks, I want to see the game on ultra on PC uber-high quality for myself me doing it for the first time. Also "The game is just so exceptionally popular (there will always be someone breaking the rules/law)" I see what you did there...STOP! YOUVE VIOLATED THE LAW! PAY THE COURT A FINE OR SERVE YOUR SENTENCE, YOUR STOLEN GOODS ARE NOW FORFEIT!

2/5.

Missed "Criminal Scum". Criminal scum.

[Frogmander]

I haven't watched/seen any of the leaks, I want to see the game on ultra on PC uber-high quality for myself me doing it for the first time. Also "The game is just so exceptionally popular (there will always be someone breaking the rules/law)" I see what you did there...STOP! YOUVE VIOLATED THE LAW! PAY THE COURT A FINE OR SERVE YOUR SENTENCE, YOUR STOLEN GOODS ARE NOW FORFEIT!

2/5.

Missed "Criminal Scum". Criminal scum.

1/5, you missed "Hope you rot" and that is only if you choose to go to jail.

[Kestral]

As with what Spiney said, this is nothing different from anything seen before.
It is true that an advanced copy of Skyrim has been leaked, both the full game (360 version) and the opening. I am not sure about the whole soundtrack, but the main theme has been released.

However, every game gets leakage. Fallout did, as well as the Sims, and many more games. It would be odd to not have a game like this leaked, and while an ecstatic gamer-base has been drooling at every pixel of the game released, it is by no means a proper way to judge the game or something that will depreciate Skyrim.

Some people are judging the game, poor souls they are, by decrying its graphics. The video (I glimpsed only a few seconds to save myself the spoilers) is low-quality, but the full game has been leaked. If you want exact judgement on the game, wait for either a critic with IGN or G4 to release a review, or go straight to the horse's mouth by querying up one of those darn scoundrels that hacked their 360s and downloaded Skyrim to them.

Skyrim has reached its final build, by now DVDs with the game are being printed, digital downloads uploaded and prepped, and the boxes are on their way to distribution centers to a GameStop near you. Any lesson learned can only be acted upon until after 11/11/11, most likely the Monday after.

[Thunderstruck elf]

I am proud to announce that the only Skyrim footage I have watched was the one howard showed us. I ignore the others. The story is completely unspoiled for me

Same here!!

I personally do not understand why you would want to spoil the beginning for yourself. I want to experience that myself, and see what happens myself. And on the subject of illegal downloads of the game-I respect Bethesda too much to do that. I will buy the game legally and play it legally.

[1337onidas]

Well, the fact that Bethesda shipped out copies of the full game to everyone in the media last week might have something to do with it. Maybe in the future they could, toy know, not do that.

[Dark Spark]

Well, the fact that Bethesda shipped out copies of the full game to everyone in the media last week might have something to do with it. Maybe in the future they could, toy know, not do that.

But every one of those copies was hand-delivered by an emotionless human figure wearing a black leather jacket and sunglasses who never slept, said disturbing things like "Assessing kill probabilities..." and later proved highly resistant to conventional gunfire.

[Yaxsis]

Well, the fact that Bethesda shipped out copies of the full game to everyone in the media last week might have something to do with it. Maybe in the future they could, toy know, not do that.

I think this is so that reviewers can get their reviews out in time rather than putting them out two weeks later... Skyrim is pretty big after all

[Queorge_the_Orc]

imo... let me repeat IN MY OPINION people not being able to wait to see a game that has been rumored for 5 years, because of self control seems a little immature

people can leak all the footage they want but i really would rather let the game surprise me when i get it on the release date. but then again i don't know. i just wanna play it, but I have no problem waiting 8 more days