Hate to nitpick but...Elven armour?

[Casper]

Am I the only one or does it bother anyone else that we've had glimpses of "Elven" armour in Skyrim? It disappointed me in Oblivion as well. Elder Scrolls lore has established that there are very distinct races of Mer and furthermore distinct cultures between them. Thus having such a thing as generic flowy-shaped "Elven armour" is like calling something from Earth "Caucasian armour." It's a small thing but to me it's telling about how Oblivion started a trend (that, sadly it looks like Skyrim will continue) on downgrading on the lore and backstory of the Elder scrolls world. I won't even go into Oblivion's creature design (Trolls and ogres? Really? That's Earth mythology), and it looks like Skyrim is treading down the same path with ice trolls and wraiths and giant spiders...Not to mention that the Nords are so obviously, well, Vikings. Not all Northern people have to be Vikings, they could have for instance come up with something more or less original. Or am I just being pessimistic? Everything else about the game looks great but the immense background of culture is what pulled me into the Elder Scrolls universe in Morrowind, and without it it's just not the same. Has this occurred to anyone else? Thoughts?

[AKB]

I just can't understand the logic about complaining about this. Complaining about them using Earth mythology is like complaining about the color of the sky. They've been doing it since Arena (which is where Elven Armor originated from). The series has been lazy with lore from the start.

[LtAscott]

i like elven armor... and im sorry, but, if they go too lore crazy they would tie themselves in a knot and this would be the last game i wanna play elder scrolls seven (if it ever happens)

p.s. if it does, i hope theres elven armour

[Dark Spark]

Well, the only recourse is to identify particular materials to a particular race: they did the job with Dwarvern items and the bronzelike casings scavenged from Dwemer machinations.

[Ysmir]

Anyone who says they are lazy with lore and shouldn't take from real life mythology obviously has not clue --- that it's been happening since people could write stories. Tell me it isn't good lore that many books we read today were inspired by LOTR, Harry Potter, and even stuff from Lloyd Alexander (Who I believe deserves more props). Tolkien took from EARTH Mythology as he did from what was happening in the world around him. (i.e. The war; destruction of the countryside from his childhood etc etc) J.K. Rowling has a lot of her characters and lore in HP from Mythology in the UK. Lloyd Alexander is a prime example user of Celtic mythology. So tell me please how is anything original? Everything is derived or influenced by what we understand or others did or didn't in our natural/spiritual world. Besides you said so yourself we only have had glimpses of the armor so who knows right?

[Casper]

I guess I'm just used to the standard set by Morrowind. Is it kind of possible to see what I'm getting at?

[OblivionDuruza]

One thing I find noteworthy, is that Elven armour in Oblivion is Altmeri, while Weapons are Ayleid. Basically, I have no problem with 'Elven' Armour, because it's Altmer. The Dunmer are known for Glass and Ebony, and the Bosmer have a history of 'subservience' to the Altmer (not really, but I am referring to the rule of the Thalmor, etc.), I see their cultures as fairly similar.

[Eltee]

Well, I guess true 'Elven' culture would be Aldmeri, and the Altmer and the Ayleid had strayed least from the path than, say, the Dunmer, Dwemer, Bosmer or the Orsimer.

[Incurable Pessimist]

I guess I'm just used to the standard set by Morrowind. Is it kind of possible to see what I'm getting at?

I can *sort of* see what you're getting at, but you're right, you're nitpicking.
Anyways. I always sort of took 'Elven' to mean Alyied, not Mer, I don't know if that makes sense.

WARNING! OPINION AHEAD! Treat it as such.

As for the creatures from real world myth thing, I never really liked it when Fantasy folks decided to foresake all tropes and make completely original stuff. It alienates me. I prefer it when they use the names, and some codified characterisitics of the existing creature, and then put their own spin on it. No matter how massive (The warcraft idea that Goblins are a genius mercantile race) or subtle ( Dwarves in Dragon Age have American accents rather than scottish ones.) Sure there are a few well done mostly original races ( the Qunari) But they're a lot harder.

[Eltee]

... And the Argonians, don't forget. And the Daedra.

[Incurable Pessimist]

... And the Argonians, don't forget. And the Daedra.

Daedra are the Elder Scrolls take on demons, and Argonians their take on Lizardfolk.

/ end opnion.

[Wolfie]

Thoughts

i mean no disrespect but to me it seems like you don't know what your talking about or your confused, most things you said are untrue or are in fact in morrowind

Am I the only one or does it bother anyone else that we've had glimpses of "Elven" Armour in Skyrim? It disappointed me in Oblivion as well. Elder Scrolls lore has established that there are very distinct races of Mer and furthermore distinct cultures between them. Thus having such a thing as generic flowy-shaped "Elven armour" is like calling something from Earth "Caucasian armour." It's a small thing but to me it's telling about how Oblivion started a trend (that, sadly it looks like Skyrim will continue) on downgrading on the lore and backstory of the Elder scrolls world.

Arena and daggerfall both had them, oblivion started nothing here.

I won't even go into Oblivion's creature design (Trolls and ogres? Really? That's Earth mythology), and it looks like Skyrim is treading down the same path with ice trolls and wraiths and giant spiders...

So are vampires, werewolf’s, skeletons. Ect
You have to remember the impearls are based off of us. So they are going to have our myhtogly mixed with others

Not to mention that the Nords are so obviously, well, Vikings. Not all Northern people have to be Vikings, they could have for instance come up with something more or less original.

Again this was so even in morrowind, most things you complain where better in morrowind where in fact the same.

Or am I just being pessimistic? Everything else about the game looks great but the immense background of culture is what pulled me into the Elder Scrolls universe in Morrowind, and without it it's just not the same.

As been said everything except Elvin amour is really in morrwind, morrowind how ever broke away form elven but it was still called elven armour in the lore.

Vikings can have just as much culture as aliens (dark elfs)

[soda popinski]

Another thread about how morrowind is the perfect game?

[Casper]

Not at all, I was just bringing up something that I really liked in Morrowind and wish that they kept on doing...

Anyway, I do realise that Morrowind wasn't completely devoid of stock fantasy characters, they did have skeletons and ghosts and the like. But you have to agree that it had many, many original creature/armour concepts as well, which Oblivion was pretty much devoid of. I was just expressing a concern that Skyrim was going to continue this trend, and I know it's a matter of taste but I personally (as you probably surmised) liked the inventive aspects of Morrowind and was hoping they'd have more of that in Skyrim. I hope that at least is understandable. Also, I have never played Daggerfall or Arena so I was specifically talking about Morrowind.

[Wolfie]

Not at all, I was just bringing up something that I really liked in Morrowind and wish that they kept on doing...

but as been said oblivion did not "change" anything besides play style, it did not add much true but it did not chnage anything
nords where vikings long before oblivion, they had earth mytholgy in Arena and what not

Morrowind is kind of the odd ball in that respect

[OblivionDuruza]

Look, I can see where Casper's coming from. Morrowind did feel alien and fantastic, while Oblivion and Skyrim have a much more low fantasy feel. I must say that it is for this reason that I prefer Vvardenfell and the 'world' of Morrowind the most, although I would not be so quick to judge Skyrim just yet.

We haven't played the game yet, and it seems like there will be a great deal to immerse in. For example, I have heard rumours about the appearance of the Thalmor. I must say I'm excited by that prospect. Further, I think I find the Norse culture interesting enough that it will keep me entertained, especially with the struggle between it and the more alien cultures of Tamriel (something I trust will be an element of Skyrim, as we do know about a substantial Dunmer population, and racism and conflict between Men and Elves).

[Rat Kiosk]

I just can't understand the logic about complaining about this. Complaining about them using Earth mythology is like complaining about the color of the sky. They've been doing it since Arena (which is where Elven Armor originated from). The series has been lazy with lore from the start.

Thats a bit extreme Elder Scrolls has just about the most developed Lore of any game I play, its not suprising that they made a few oversights.

[The Number None]

I just can't understand the logic about complaining about this. Complaining about them using Earth mythology is like complaining about the color of the sky. They've been doing it since Arena (which is where Elven Armor originated from). The series has been lazy with lore from the start.

Thats a bit extreme Elder Scrolls has just about the most developed Lore of any game I play, its not suprising that they made a few oversights.

I agree. I think TES has more and better lore than any other game I've ever played, I couldn't care less if they missed a few details here and there. It's not like the elven armor makes the series unplayable.

[The Silent Striker]

There's nothing wrong imo with lore. Sure, trolls are in the real world, but come on, do you think that looks like a troll?

[Assassin540]

One thing I find noteworthy, is that Elven armour in Oblivion is Altmeri, while Weapons are Ayleid. Basically, I have no problem with 'Elven' Armour, because it's Altmer. The Dunmer are known for Glass and Ebony, and the Bosmer have a history of 'subservience' to the Altmer (not really, but I am referring to the rule of the Thalmor, etc.), I see their cultures as fairly similar.

Yeah the Bosmer really wouldn't have armor they live in tribes

[OblivionDuruza]

We don't know that for a fact though. Bosmer in Cyrodiil and Morrowind wear armour just like any other race.

[Haravikk]

You could argue that Cyrodiil and Skyrim, being mostly inhabited by human races, may not be as widely knowledgeable about the different "elf" races, and so it's a widely held believe that "Elves" and "Dwarves" are two distinct entities, with Bosmer, Dunmer and Altmer just being varieties, at least as far as the humans are concerned.

I do agree that it'd be nice to at least have a nod toward this in the lore to confirm that elves all had their own styles, that have simply been lost as a result of their time amongst other races. If they ever do an Elder Scrolls or Skyrim DLC that focuses on an area where "elf" races are more common, then it'd be nice to see them sticking to more authentic naming and distinctions. I remember someone mentioning an idea for a Falmer DLC, taking place in some lost Falmer realm, would be cool to see a focus on authenticity for that.