War for the Caldera Mines - Great House Mod Project

[Velothi]

If we could create such a thing; sure. New textures can't hurt.

But I suppose it all depends on the choice; as all want you to do several quests before the big finale.

For War/Military Invasion; you gotta inspect the troops and end any moral problems the Redorans are having. (Helseth is King, Hlaalu is with the Imperials; morale is probably low) Then train with them (teach them or buy some trainers), then finally help decide how the military invasion will commence.

For Diplomacy; you'd have to meet with Aythn Sarethi whom would meet with a anonymous Hlaalu Councilor (Guess who). Then you two can talk and try to form a treaty to bring Caldera into Redoran influence without much anger towards the Hlaalu as well as removing the corruption in Caldera. This will involve having the Empire personally remove the governor and install you or another Redoran as a governor due to the plea of this Councilor of Hlaalu.

This will allow Caldera's control under you or another; thus you must also trade the mine for another (one near Balmora you find by accident).

Then, finally, decide if a conjoint guard of Hlaalu and Redoran will be in Caldera or only Redoran.

For Popular Revolt, you have to investiage the corruption among the masses; and address it to the people. This involves the creation of your very own faction (I believe "The People's Party of Caldera" will suffice) to meet, discuss and ultimately drive the people to revolution. This will involve convincing people, answering questions and so forth.

Military coup may involve you going undercover (not "really" joining the Imperial Legion) and finding out the problems of the Legion. Rallying a force behind you to topple the corrupt Legion hierarchy and the Caldera oligarchy.

[OblivionDuruza]

I had an idea for the Hlaalu side. Grandmaster of Hlaalu explores removing the corruption of the Cammona Tong, perhaps the Hlaalu side of this mod can also focus on removing the corruption around the Caldera Mines? Namely its corrupt operator? That would fit the entire Hlaalu flavour of the game, expecially with Bero and Curio.

[Velothi]

Very well, as that would make Hlaalu rule more "justified" in Imperial view and there would be no stealing of ebony.

Though you have to make the man come to an Imperial Court (which will be in caldera) and show the evidence both to the Imperial Administration of Caldera and the Great House of Hlaalu Council.

And how are my ideas?

[OblivionDuruza]

The diplomacy quest branches could be similar for both Hoses, although involving different 'details'. I have to go, but I'll check back again later for a more in-depth look.

One concern I have with the mod is that it doesn't become overly biased towards one side. So far, a lot of the ideas have shone House Hlaalu in a fairly negative light. The focus of the corruption should really be Odral Helvi and possibly Stlennius Vibato.

Continuing on a bit of a tangent, but perhaps part of the Hlaalu side would actually be to instate a more transparent operation of the mine?

On your ideas:
We could go along these lines:

1. Primary - Military: This would involve preparing the troops, some 'fact-finding' missions, and an eventual 'battle for Caldera'
2. Secondary - Diplomatic: could involve appealing to Duke Vedam Dren and the Imperial authorities
3. Tertiary - Blackmail and intimidation: you might blackmail Odral or convince him to work for House Redoran in undermining the mine
   Spoiler:

   as revealed by the Hlaalu questline, he only wishes to escape with his lover, so you could offer them protection an help leaving Vvardenfell, in exchange for aid
   This could also involve a 'popular uprising' of sorts, creating pressure on the Governor by creating unrest, and then blackmailing him or proving to him that the mine is under corrupt operation.
4. Post-questline: Establish the mine and reinstate Redoran forces in the Caldera area

For House Hlaalu:

1. Primary - Military: This would involve defending the mine and organising a Legion aided defence, while also possibly involving quests to force House Redoran to pull back to defend it's own territory, maybe by causing trouble at its mines or in Ald'ruhn.
2. Secondary - Coercion: Could involve working on the friction between the different Councillors, particularly Venmin and Sarethi. Further, there might be quest to gain the support of the Councilmen, possibly through bribery, favours or blackmail, until enough vote to end the threat on Caldera.
3. Tertiary - Diplomatic: Either negotiate with Redoran Council or go to the Duke. [need to expand this idea out a bit]
4. Post-questline: re-establish the mine, and ensure transparent operation of the mine, hiring miners and freeing the slaves, etc.

[Velothi]

So wouldn't the Blackmail/intimidation be also apart Popular Revolt?

Like an option to complete the Popular Revolt via Blackmail of making the Governor step down and recognize Redoran forces/the people of Caldera.

Since then you can allow him to leave, but do the Popular Revolt.

And the Post-Quest should be basically asserting it as a Redoran town (Temples, Barracks, Redoran guards, a Redoran "castle" of sorts, and the setting up of the Labourers and Miners Guild for Redorans usage of the Mine).

Though we could create new guilds (like Labourers and Farmers Guild, etc) for the Popular Revolt quest-line.

[OblivionDuruza]

Yeah the blackmail/intimidate option would run along those lines, however I'm just worrying about the complexity of running siz large questlines, so I was thinking that we limit it to just gathering support amongst the people, rather than a full on uprising, which would involve a lot of fiddling with NPCs and what not.

As for post quests, for both Houses, they would focus on the mines, but the Redoran one might also involve setting up a guard force in the area, and some Dunmer moving into the area, as miners and members of the House. So you would be adding to the area, and you might even put Redoran's in the Governor's Hall, replacing Odral and so on.

[Velothi]

Yeah, finding support may be better than a fully uprising (which would involve getting support from the people and factions).

Though a full uprising may be better in gameplay

So we have a clear idea of how the quests will basically play out. So, what do we do now?

[OblivionDuruza]

There are two major issues, building a team and working out a timeline. I'll try and advertise a bit more, maybe even on other Forums, because for such a project, we need more than two modders, particularly because I don't have a whole lot of time to mod at the moment, and I'm fairly limited in my modding capabilities as it is. The good thing is that the next stage is ironing out the details of each quest, something we can do together, without having to mod.

We'll need to map the stages of each quest in a chronological order, work out the NPCs involved, changes to be made and work out dialogue and journal updates. We can do this quest by quest, as we started to do a little while back.

But yeah, building a team is paramount. We need modders willing and able to help out.

[Velothi]

So, we'll be ironing out the details before we get the team together? Or we'll try to attempt both at the same time to rally our members and start with the mod.

[OblivionDuruza]

Both at the same time, we need modders, and the more heads involved in the initial process, the more ideas we'll have to play with.

The Great Houses will be a good place to start, so I'll try there.

[Velothi]

Alright. Since House Redoran is in a lack of activity, there might be some help from House Hlaalu.

We could call for Avron when she comes back in September; I mean there is nothing wrong in having her help for Redoran quests

[OblivionDuruza]

I guess so, you could ask Zombie about House Redoran, as it is the smallest of the Houses. Avron and Andere are both Redoran fans, and have said they might join in eventually, do speaking to the two of them might also be an idea. And even though the mod is between Hlaalu and Redoran, any modder on the UESP can and is encouraged to join in, so we aren't limited by membership.

[Milder Despues]

I'll stick my head into the chat you've got going here peeps.

Anyway, just wanted to remind you that the Blades and the Imperials are also very interested in the mines, and how their allied Hlaalu handles the affair. Surane Leoriane monitors the situation, and I think it's a common secret that bribes were involved when the contract went to Hlaalu.

(I know it's a Great House mod, just something that might add some external flavour, should you want it).

Nice project, btw.

[Velothi]

I guess so, you could ask Zombie about House Redoran, as it is the smallest of the Houses. Avron and Andere are both Redoran fans, and have said they might join in eventually, do speaking to the two of them might also be an idea. And even though the mod is between Hlaalu and Redoran, any modder on the UESP can and is encouraged to join in, so we aren't limited by membership.

Well I don't know Zombie very well, and I don't know when he's on.

EDIT: Although the Blades would be very interested in the Caldera Mines, we are trying to make this game compatible with many other mods.

So I think including the Blades will both ruin the feel of the War (As they are a spy guild) and basically the player is apart of the Blades.

Mandatory, but still.

[OblivionDuruza]

Zombie's on pretty often, he's a New Zealander, so about the times I'm on. He's often hidden though, so just PM him and he should get back to you, otherwise, I can talk to him, here or elsewhere.

Also, on Despues' post, we could work in the Blades and Imperials in general, possibly through the negotiation branch that I mentioned. And more so on the Hlaalu side of things. The PC already stamps out a bit of the corruption and influence of the Cammona Tong in-game, so it's fitting for him or her to deal with the corruption in Caldera.

[Velothi]

Well the Blades in Morrowind seem to just act independently actually, they're not so much a collective effort.

but I PM'd Zombie.

[OblivionDuruza]

We could get the Imperials to pull some strings or something as one route? On the weekend, I'll try and sit down to map out the entire Mod in brief summary, but I may not get a chance, it's the particularly busy season of assessments at school at the moment.

[Velothi]

So how is the summary going?

[OblivionDuruza]

Slowly, I've been fairly busy, and I'm about to go off to do some work. Holidays are coming up in two weeks, but I may not get time then either, as I'm going on exchange. I'll do something brief at least, before I go.

[Velothi]

So for the Caldera Battle i'll have some outlines drawn.

Soldiers

There will be at least twelve to twenty Redoran Troops that will attack Caldera/enter Caldera; this is regardless of the choice you made.

If you choose attack, they will attack from three sides. One from the east, the other goes to attack the Mining operation and the third will charge the front and back gates.

You may lead any of the charges to ensure victory, then aid the other group (for the Mine or for the City itself)

If you chose to revolt, the people will aid you in attacking the Imperial guards while others (such as the Mages Guild) will remain neutral and not get involved.

If the Imperial Legion entered a revolt, then some (addressed as 'Revolting Imperial Guard') will help you as well, and aid you to get into the Castle.

Though there will be reinforcements for the Imperials such as Imperial Templars and the like.

Then enter the Castle and deal with the Governor, whom may surrender or fight to the death. Either way, you control Caldera.

You, also, may convince each of the Councilors to join the fight. This may aid you, and you have to keep a majority of them alive.

[OblivionDuruza]

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:MW_Map_CalderaCrater.jpg

On the idea of multiple attacks, that seems like a good idea, and could involve a pre-battle inspection of the troops on all sides. Could you draw in the lines of attack on the above map please?

We could create it so that the attack happens only as the PC passes through, in effect, several stages, each with different NPCs and the PC, plus a few NPCs who simply follow the PC. It might involve freeing the slaves, capturing the mine and attacking the Company Offices. Possibly in that order. We might add a few more guards though.

As for the Councillors idea, perhaps we could work in a few, but not all (seeing as some of them aren't fully fit for a battle). Perhaps Venim if he is still alive (if he is dead, his guards would be the players, as the player would be Arch-Master), Garisa Llethri by default, and Miner Arobar if the player gains his support for the attack. Each might add a few guards to the overall force.

As for the Legion, if anything, they would defend the mine (to bolster a Hlaalu players numbers), so perhaps let's limit their involvement on the Redoran side to simply looking the other way.

Finally, on taking the Governor, how about two branches, one gaining his 'blessing' for the battle, through some kind of favour, and one either blackmailing him or capturing him?

Edit: made the link actually link

[Velothi]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/71 ... rater.jpg/

Here is some crude idea.

I agree with the guards idea as this might be a way to gain respect with the Order of the Black Rose (Crusaders Venim uses, PAX Redoran creates the lore name)

And sure, the branching idea could be used.

To capture him and put him on trial (ergo, he dies), gain his blessing (he sabotages some of the defenses), or simply blackmail him to aid you fully.

[OblivionDuruza]

Thanks for that. It looks good as a plan. The twenty or so men might split up and go separate ways, with the PC going to free the slaves, then going to aid the Redoran's in the Offices, before taking the Mine?

On the Governor, perhaps we could have three degrees of assistance,1. he opposes you, 2. he remains impartial, and 3. he aids you by keeping the Guards he controls away from Caldera Mines?

[Velothi]

If the PC joins the Mine-attack group, yes the Redorans can do an abolitionist mission and decide to free the slaves in order to take over the Office. (this means you can bring a small force of Redorans with you, or do it yourself. Either way you can convince the slaves to aid you in the battle)

And that may work, but I still like the idea of capturing him and putting him on trial. Even if you get him to aid you, you'd need to remove him as governor. So you may tell him "You are free to go to the Mainland, but you are never allowed to be on Redoran territory again. Now get out of my sight."

[OblivionDuruza]

That could be an idea, depose him, sending him away, and implement a new Governor? I'll just have to look into his Imperial connections, as they might not be too pleased by you doing so.

Edit: there isn't a Governor is there? But dealing with Odral Helvi and Cunius Pelelius would be appropriate. And there wouldn't be so much of an issue with the Imperial forces.