The 'Men' Races

[Doctor Meaticus]

Imperial, Reguard, Nord and Breton. Thats all of 'em - at least all that are still around, anyway (if I'm wrong, correct me.).

So we all know Bretons are the eventual result of extensive Nedic-Aldmer interbreeding. But the crux of my question is focused on the other three.

Imperials, Nords and Redguards are considered different 'races' in-game, correct? But are they considered different races on account of them being actual different species, or are they all related somehow?

Obviously, Nirn is a far cry from planet Earth, but here on Earth, a person of Scandinavian descent wouldn't walk past someone from, say, Southeast Asia and say 'Greetings, Indian.'

We're all people, is basically what I'm trying to say.

It's understandable that this could occur between distinct races such as Argonians and Khajiit, which are clearly unrelated to Imperials and such - but I mean what exactly makes the 'men' races distinguishable?

[OblivionDuruza]

That's an interesting lore question.

Basically Redguards came from Yokua. They do not share the same blood as the other human races, and they have no connection with the ancestral human homeland of Atmora.

In contrast, the Nords are from Atmora. This would suggest that Redguards and Nords are of fairly different racial backgrounds.

As for Imperials, while some may be descended from Nords or Nedes, there are also theories about the influence of the native tribes as the Keptu and Kothringi.

On the Bretons, they claim to be descended from the Nedes.

[Generalno1]

Moved to Lore

[Trelares]

Duruza already stated most parts, the only part that is not full clear is from where the nedic people where. Some of the lore books say they came from atmora and therefore are of the same race as the nords, other times it is said they are related to the Tamriel men races, it could also be possible that the early atmoran interbreed with the Tamriel native human and that this created the nedes.

The other problem is that before Morrowind there where no Imperial as a race ingame, from a logical point of view I favorise the early atmoran/native Tamriel men interbreed theory.

[legoless]

Seeing as how an elf can breed with a man in the ES universe and the resulting offspring is not only fertile but of maternal features, I doubt species comes into play.

[Tarandus]

Are Redguards really a different species or are they just Atmorans who sailed to yokuda? Nords like sailing right??

[OblivionDuruza]

Well that is possible, but if the Atmorans evolved that much (i.e. completely pale skinned with pure blond hair -> Dark skinned w/black hair), they would be classified as a different species regardless. Still, they may have the same roots.

If you look at the theory for real life humans.

There are suggestions that Africans are of pure homo sapien descent, while all others have Neanderthal blood. However recently, a new species was discovered in Asia, so that throws some doubt on the matter of Asian lineage.

What this all means is that inter-breeding and evolution could possibly support the theory that all the 'men' species are from the same species originally.

[Anonymous98223]

i didnt know nords where from altmora? i thought the nedes were from altmora and became the nords and other human races when the spread throughout tamriel. and why are there so few human races when theres like a gazillion elves. i mean bretons dont cont as pure humans cuzz there like half elf and imperials i thought were basicily the same as the nords but jus kinda mixed with othere early nedics people and jus basicly a diffrent nationality, cuz i read that the imperials only bacame refered to as imperials when tiber, who was a nord but his decendants are all imperial, so maybe imperial isnt a race jus a term, concured tamriel. so thats like 2 diffrent real races of man, nords and redgaurds. and cant men and elfs interbreed cuz there somehow related?

[JockoBeans]

Nedes were the first humans to come to Tamriel. They split into Nords (Skyrim) and Imperials (Cyrodiil).

The Bretons were Nedes who bred with the Elves in Highrock and Hammerfel.

The Redguard came from Yokuda and settled western Hammerfel.

The only indigenous human race I know of are the Kothringi of Argonia. They died out due to the Thrassian Plague in the Second Era.

[OblivionDuruza]

There seems to be a bit of confusion about the term 'Nedic'. Some scholars seemed to use it as a synonym for Nordic, but I would assert that these scholars were mistaken and that the Nedic people are of different decent to the Nords.

The Cyrodils would seem to be the closest living relatives of the Nedes.

I did some more research on the subject and it would seem that there were several are other native races of men, the Kothri, the Al-Gemha, Men-of-Ge, Al-Hared and Men-of-Ket.

[Chaos the N'wah]

I think we had a topic a couple months back along similar lines (more of an emphasis on lore terms)

I believe the term Nede used to mean men who came from Atmora, but independent of the Atmoran Military/Royalty, travels of Atmoran stock, but not official liasons.
Looking for freedom from a (possibly) tyrannical government, they traveled to this "new world" and were named by the natives/elves/themselves as Nedes

I think later on, with the interaction of numerous tribes/races of man who may or may not have come from Atora, the lines blurred and Nede became a blanket statement for an non-Atmoran/Nordic aligned human.
Then Skyrim and the Ra'Gada came, Bretons became recognized as a race (despite the numerous splintered factions) and Imperials carving out an empire; the need to use a racial term with so many large nations waned
Man was simpler to say than Nede and all races (to some extent) knew the term instead of 'Nede'

[Anonymous98223]

can someone tell me how tiber septim was a nord but uriel septim is a imperial in tes IV, cuz its really confusing?? everything you guys seem to say refers to them as diffrent races.

[legoless]

can someone tell me how tiber septim was a nord but uriel septim is a imperial in tes IV, cuz its really confusing?? everything you guys seem to say refers to them as diffrent races.

It's most likely that the Imperial blood came from marrying into other royal families. Although, there is the theory that Harald and Tiber were two separate people under the same alias, so perhaps the Septim line has always been Cyrodilic.

[Chaos the N'wah]

I think it's safe to assume that over the centuries of living in Cyrodiil, the numerous relatives of Talos married into local royalty instead of sticking solely to Nordic born bloodlines...

[Anonymous98223]

is there an article on the harold tiber theory thingy here on the uesp?

[OblivionDuruza]

This article discusses a bit about Tiber and the different stories about him.

Further, Uriel is at least half-Imperial, as he was the son of an Imperial father.

Following Katariah's death, Uriel Lariat - borne of Katariah and her Imperial consort - assumed the title of Emperor and the name of Uriel IV

Further, the Nedes are NOT Atmorans:

Out of Atmora (07/10/08):
And for the last time (uh huh), Nedes =!= Atmorans. That's just shoddy scholarship from a bygone regime.