To fast travel or not to fast travel that is the question.

[POMC S117]

I won't use fast travel in my first playthrough or when I Roleplay a merchant, bandit, guard and so on. I'll only fast travel on my other playthroughs when I want to do the main quest again.

[Stendarr]

I will fast travel. I'd like to point out that 1. it's optional and 2. you need to discover locations first, so I will not be missing out on any of the amazing Skrim vistas.

In addition, I can explore whenever I want, but when I'm doing a quest, I want to do it, and I want to do it in a timely fashion.

I love to explore, but I don't want to be forced to, further, over exploration takes away from the experience. It's the law of diminishing returns .

I know that Skyrim is probably made differently than Oblivion which took for granted that you would fast travel, but over exploration is an exaggeration from someone who probably didn't play Morrowind. Oblivion's problem like I said, was that a lot of quests asked you to go back and forth across the whole province, something which was 1. unrealistic and 2. tiresome if you didn't want to fast travel, particularly that there were no carriages and the likes. Because the people who were against fast travel in Oblivion USED fast travel in Morrowind. It's that Morrowind's fast travel had you use silt riders, boats, mages guild teleportation, amsilvi/divine intervention, mark/recall spells or enchanted equipment with such spells. Oh, and there were also the propylon indexes to teleport from stronghold to stronghold. When you first started the game, all you needed to do is reach cities by local transportation, then you had quests which didn't ask you to get across the whole province, some yes, but you could minimize walking and eventually get pretty effective in doing that with the aforementioned ways. Heck, you also the boots of blinding speed which you could use night eye enchanted items to see something. There were a lot of possibilities, getting around wasn't that bad as people are making it out appear. The thing with Oblivion, is that the game didn't really let you do such things. No fast travel? Just walk, it's easy! No it isn't, I have no replacement and I need to walk across the province every time...

Anyway, I prefer MW's fast travel because it is more realistic/immersive. I prefer to explore and walk a bit around, but otherwise I still need to plan my travels and can't just immediately teleport from place to place so I have no encumbrance problem, I think it added a twist to travelling and exploration which I appreciated. I loved trekking the Red Mountain, but knowing that I couldn't just teleport back unless I had a spell, and then to return I would have to manage to get there again. I think it made some places seem more dangerous, that it gave life and immersion to them. A big part of the thrill is gone when you can just go back and forth whenever you want.

[scribbane]

I know that Skyrim is probably made differently than Oblivion which took for granted that you would fast travel, but over exploration is an exaggeration from someone who probably didn't play Morrowind. Oblivion's problem like I said, was that a lot of quests asked you to go back and forth across the whole province, something which was 1. unrealistic and 2. tiresome if you didn't want to fast travel, particularly that there were no carriages and the likes. Because the people who were against fast travel in Oblivion USED fast travel in Morrowind. It's that Morrowind's fast travel had you use silt riders, boats, mages guild teleportation, amsilvi/divine intervention, mark/recall spells or enchanted equipment with such spells. Oh, and there were also the propylon indexes to teleport from stronghold to stronghold. When you first started the game, all you needed to do is reach cities by local transportation, then you had quests which didn't ask you to get across the whole province, some yes, but you could minimize walking and eventually get pretty effective in doing that with the aforementioned ways. Heck, you also the boots of blinding speed which you could use night eye enchanted items to see something. There were a lot of possibilities, getting around wasn't that bad as people are making it out appear. The thing with Oblivion, is that the game didn't really let you do such things. No fast travel? Just walk, it's easy! No it isn't, I have no replacement and I need to walk across the province every time...

Anyway, I prefer MW's fast travel because it is more realistic/immersive. I prefer to explore and walk a bit around, but otherwise I still need to plan my travels and can't just immediately teleport from place to place so I have no encumbrance problem, I think it added a twist to travelling and exploration which I appreciated. I loved trekking the Red Mountain, but knowing that I couldn't just teleport back unless I had a spell, and then to return I would have to manage to get there again. I think it made some places seem more dangerous, that it gave life and immersion to them. A big part of the thrill is gone when you can just go back and forth whenever you want.

This. The phrase "hitting the nail on the head" has never been more accurate.

[Ratwar]

Yeah, I'll be fast traveling a lot.

It isn't that I'm against exploration (I'm all for it), it is just that I hate seeing the same road 50 times. It was a major annoyance for me in Morrowind. So I'll be doing a ton of fast traveling, so I don't waste my time on a boring road.

Honestly, I don't get the anti-fast travel arguments. For me, a loading screen is immersion breaking. Morrowind had them (especially when you ended up going through 2 or 3 towns to get to your destination), Oblivion had them, Skyrim will have them. My immersion is always going to be broken when traveling. I'll deal.

[scribbane]

I think my biggest gripe with the fast travel system in Oblivion was that I couldn't justify what I was doing. I don't know if that makes sense. In Morrowind, I knew I was riding on a Silt Strider, or traveling via boat, or teleporting in some manner. Oblivion was just select somewhere you have been and you will be there. I get that the idea was that you would let the game walk there for you, time was taken and all that, but that seems silly to me. If I want to play the game, I want to play. If I need to walk to that town, I'll walk there. I don't want the game to do it for me because I'm tired of seeing that road or whatever. Yes I did fast travel in Oblivion, but I wasn't a fan of it for that reason, among others.

[Arch-Mage Matt]

My general look on that is I'm all for realism/immersion, until it hinders actual gameplay. Sometimes, you just don't have time to take ten extra minutes to travel city to city.

[scribbane]

That's a valid point, and I think that's where what Stendarr said comes into play. When quests are placed all over the map, and they force you to travel all over, I think you should have "realistic" fast travel modes in the game. Like he pointed out, if quests were located on the other side of the island, Morrowind had the travel system to allow you to get much closer, and you always had Intervention spells and Recall to get out if you wanted to really expedite the return trip.

Oblivion lacked that in a sense because when quests were place far away, the only options you had where to walk/horse or fast travel. But fast travel wasn't part of the world, it was part of the game. So you had to decide if you wanted to take the time to walk, or if you just wanted to let the game walk for you. I see the appeal, but I wish there had been other options.

[Arch-Mage Matt]

I don't see the appeal to paying a carriage to take you from Point A to Point B when you can fast travel. One option is "You were teleported there - but you took a carriage." and the next is "You were teleported there - but you walked."

[scribbane]

Yeah, they are essentially the same thing haha. But the thing in Morrowind was, you didn't fast travel directly there. You would fast travel usually to the nearest town, through a variety of methods most times, and then had to walk the rest of it. They are just different games. I honestly feel Morrowind focused more on exploration than Oblivion did. You were rewarded more for exploring, but there was also more risk.

It's all preference I suppose. I won't say its immersion so much IMO, but justification in my mind. I didn't like justifying that the game was walking for me, but I could justify letting the game take me somewhere by boat because I was paying for the boat service. Again, I did fast travel in Oblivion, I just didn't like the system at all.

[Stendarr]

I think my biggest gripe with the fast travel system in Oblivion was that I couldn't justify what I was doing. I don't know if that makes sense. In Morrowind, I knew I was riding on a Silt Strider, or traveling via boat, or teleporting in some manner. Oblivion was just select somewhere you have been and you will be there. I get that the idea was that you would let the game walk there for you, time was taken and all that, but that seems silly to me. If I want to play the game, I want to play. If I need to walk to that town, I'll walk there. I don't want the game to do it for me because I'm tired of seeing that road or whatever. Yes I did fast travel in Oblivion, but I wasn't a fan of it for that reason, among others.

Agreed. When you traveled from city to city via boats for example, you were always teleporting at the dock, as in real life when you take the bus you get from station to station, except in this case you wouldn't to sit through the whole trip. To me it makes a difference, because I find something is lacking, or I feel like I'm not part of the world when I can just fast travel back and forth from anywhere to everywhere. It's a subtle difference to some people, but it's definitely something I can feel just by playing normally and not thinking about it, pacing and such is something that I really can feel. For example, I barely saw anyone criticize the pacing of Halo Reach, but even on my first playthrough I felt lukewarm towards the game because I felt I was doing a speedrun or something, it's the same when I use fast travel. And yes, walking the same damn road from the very beginning to the very end if annoying in the end, instead of entering the road from somewhere and using it for only a couple of minutes until you leave it. Some might say that it's just a game and that I should play it as such, but it just feels unnatural and weird to me, it's not something I think about while playing, it's something I feel. It's like when I watch a movie, I need to feel like witnessing everything, and not feeling like watching a film.

It takes money? It's really only a concern at the very beginning of the game when you are broke, after a couple of hours, traveling via boats and such is peanuts. And I think it adds depth early on because of that too, I like it when money is something valuable that you have to work towards acquiring. And it's someone who works 40 hours a week and barely play video games anymore. Sometimes I play for a certain number of hour in a week, sometimes I don't even touch games and at other times it's moderate, but it doesn't change what I want from a game. I want the best possible experience as the most fulfilling one, after all I have limited time, so I'd rather play 5 minutes more to do a particular thing if it means enjoying my stay more.

And I do use fast travel in Oblivion because I don't like walking miles and miles and miles to do quests as they were asking you to get across Cyrodiil twice sometimes. And even if it's more of an exploration thing, I didn't even explored all that much in my Morrowind playthroughs, to me using the fast travel Morrowind had was just more natural and immersive.

[Matrim]

The problem that I have with this fast travel debate is that people think that it's some form of magic. It isn't.

I DM a game of DnD. If my party is making a months worth of travel time between the small farming town of Hochoch and the larger town of Hookhill, a near month's journey, I'm not going to cart them through all of the minor towns and steads in between if they don't want to. And, even then, I'll make sure that time has an effect on their characters. Rations run out? Games day pass? Of course.

While there may not be rations in Skyrim or Oblivion, time did pass in Oblivion when you fast traveled. So, it isn't magic, and moreover sleeping during a long car ride. If you want to get out there explore, do so. I some times do that myself, choosing to embark on a long hike from Bruma to Leyawin, and it can be pleasant. But, if I'm in a quest that sends be across the province, I just might want to get it done with and not traverse over several mountains and killer enemies. (And now, dragons!)

[KrisCrash]

Yes, in a sense it's a lot like the Wait system. Your character is doing stuff but you don't have to sit through it. And it's all fine with me. I can explore when I want, and I can fast travel when I want.

Notice how Shivering Isles gave us map markers for New Sheoth but forced us to walk there and discover it the first time? It's sort of a good solution (except for the lack of horse T_T) - BUT - in a big map that would force you to walk a lot to begin with, rather than allow you to spread it out. If there wasn't a fast travel system I'd be looking up console codes for locations really fast, sorry. It would just be too frustrating. I tend to begin exploring more at later levels.

[OblivionDuruza]

I know that Skyrim is probably made differently than Oblivion which took for granted that you would fast travel, but over exploration is an exaggeration from someone who probably didn't play Morrowind.

I have played Morrowind, more so than Oblivion, and I must agree with you, the travel system in Morrowind was much better than Oblivion's Fast Travel. I guess you misinterpreted my previous comment, I simply mean that if I need to travel between cities for quests and the like, I don't really want to travel the same roads many times, when I could be exploring new areas or completing different tasks. If the carriage system is good, than fast travel will be less necessary, but still a nice feature to have at your disposal.

Anyway, I prefer MW's fast travel because it is more realistic/immersive. I prefer to explore and walk a bit around, but otherwise I still need to plan my travels and can't just immediately teleport from place to place so I have no encumbrance problem, I think it added a twist to travelling and exploration which I appreciated. I loved trekking the Red Mountain, but knowing that I couldn't just teleport back unless I had a spell, and then to return I would have to manage to get there again. I think it made some places seem more dangerous, that it gave life and immersion to them. A big part of the thrill is gone when you can just go back and forth whenever you want.

I agree, the Morrowind system was much more fun to play, but on the flip side, the Oblivion system was much more convenient, and didn't hurt the gameplay as much as is sometimes believed. Like I maintain, it's all about choice, and I know that when I've got time on my hands, I do tend to fast travel less often.

[KrisCrash]

I like the idea some people have about fast travelling / taking a coach only to cities, then go on foot to the dungeon in question.

But there's another technical benefit about fast travel, it's when you get stuck. Maybe you've gone the wrong way up to a location and there's a huge cliff in the way, or you could simply have become stuck in an impossible chunk of landscape. From the game coder's view, giving the player the option to teleport out of a situation like that solves a lot of problems for him. If they choose to put a limit on fast travel (by forcing you to use specific locations to do it from), that's fine, but because of the bug-solving element I doubt it. Unless they'll pretend fast travel is specific magic, and choose to give you a recall spell - but Todd already denied this because of the script breaking element.

A good limit for me would be if you can always fast travel FROM anywhere TO major locations (locations likely to be visited by coaches?). Or once you had a horse, you had more travel options yourself.

I don't like to be told how I must hate exploration!!! just because I use fast travel. It's not entirely black and white, for those of you who say that :/

I've played games with (such as teleporting songs in Zelda) and without (such as the boat and gryphon system in WoW), and I don't think "without" adds immersion, just tedium. I remember when I could spend 20 minutes getting to Ahn'Qiraj and it just sucked when I had a raid to make. I found myself either wanting to go sight seeing, OR wanting to get somewhere fast. Rarely would I want to slowly make my way somewhere. Oblivion wasn't much different for me, but the contrast was "softer". They could make a screen come up, "5 hours later, 11:45 am, mondas. Location: Solitude (distance: 22 miles)", and then you arrive on your horse - that would give me a sense of the time and space passed. Time feels so slippery in Oblivion, after travelling I always tend to look in my journal to see how much time passed right after travelling.

[JJKG]

So, I still can't really figure out what's wrong with fast travel. Firstly, it's optional, so if you'd like to actually go somewhere on foot/by horse, you can. Also, justifying it is easy; you walked somewhere. Simple. Yes, maybe, you should have been able to travel by boat, but what's so hard about justifying walking? I'm sorry if I'm being ignorant, but I just don't get it.

[MARS]

Maybe we should all lay this argument to rest? Both variants will be in Skyrim so I really see no reason for this argument to go on. No party will be convinced of the other party's view so for the sake of...something, stop.

[Stendarr]

Well sorry OblivionDuruza, I tend to read a bit too fast sometimes...

So, I still can't really figure out what's wrong with fast travel. Firstly, it's optional, so if you'd like to actually go somewhere on foot/by horse, you can. Also, justifying it is easy; you walked somewhere. Simple. Yes, maybe, you should have been able to travel by boat, but what's so hard about justifying walking? I'm sorry if I'm being ignorant, but I just don't get it.

I just talked about why this reasoning doesn't work. It's not just about ignoring it, read a few posts up.

[scribbane]

Maybe we should all lay this argument to rest? Both variants will be in Skyrim so I really see no reason for this argument to go on. No party will be convinced of the other party's view so for the sake of...something, stop.

I don't actually think we are arguing at this point. I think its a good discussion so far, which is something I always enjoy if it remains civil and decent.

So, I still can't really figure out what's wrong with fast travel. Firstly, it's optional, so if you'd like to actually go somewhere on foot/by horse, you can. Also, justifying it is easy; you walked somewhere. Simple. Yes, maybe, you should have been able to travel by boat, but what's so hard about justifying walking? I'm sorry if I'm being ignorant, but I just don't get it.

It's not that anything is wrong with fast travel, its just the preference for how its implemented. I think most of us would be upset if there was absolutely no fast travel in the games, but we each have our own thoughts on how it should be implemented. It's not that I can't justify walking, its that I don't like to justify having the game walk for me. When you fast travel in Oblivion, the game is walking for you. It saves you gameplay time, it can help to reduce repetition, but ultimately its the same thing as YOU walking. This is the part I don't like, the game is doing something mundane for you that you don't want to do. Again, I see the appeal behind it, and I did it in Oblivion, but I didn't like doing it.

I'm not trying to bash anyone for using Oblivion fast travel or liking it. I'm just trying to express the reasons why I am not the biggest fan of that system.

Kris: I can speak only for myself, but I wasn't implying that you must hate exploration. I apologize if you got that impression. What I was attempting to say is that I feel like the implementation of fast travel in Oblivion made exploration less rewarding because it was less necessary. Again my opinion.

[Matrim]

It isn't the exact same thing that you do, fast traveling. It doesn't "walk for you" per se, which is why it comes with its own downsides. You don't discover new locations along the way, nor do you gain experience for athletics, or any other skill that you might use. Sure, it might be repeating a mundane task for you, but, what isn't? Isn't your inventory system somehow working out the mundane task of where to place this 30lb war-axe of gloomy death and destruction? Isn't your equipping system working out the mundane task of putting on your armor? All in all, exploring or walking from place to place isn't exactly mundane or repetitious, but, it isn't time-saving.

[Stendarr]

I guess the game could do quests for us too and all that stuff... What I mean is that you just can't compare putting armor with walking to a destination.

[Velothi]

If there was a fast travel system; I'd like a mix of Morrowind and the First Fallout. Why? For then the Oblivion-players whom have had only Oblivion to judge on are satisfied and we not only get a sense of nostalgia with Morrowind-fast travel (Perhaps by carriage or going along with traders whom are heading to city A) but we also get some surprise encounters.

As the terrain itself could halt or slow our journey, a dragon might ruin your day due to traveling too close to the mountains or you're just that UNLUCKY, or some highway men decide to take you on if you don't give them 200 Septims to pass along 'safely'.

But I would be very disappointed if they (say) do the same crap with Oblivion. Why? For you never gain much; you never travel and explore the world like you did in Morrowind. Or in Daggerfall which had it's own fast travel system: but that's a point to where it seems realistic. You can be cautious and re-energize or be reckless and get their faster but you're still damaged.

A fast-travel system should be made delicately and with care in relation to whom is playing it. So there has to be a fast-travel system for the players whom aren't patient enough to walk around and explore, yet there has to be nostalgia for the veterans to keep playing so it doesn't become a stupid repetition.

[Utrechter]

At least at first I would not use it, but if there's a quest in which I need to go from East to West from North to South etc etc etc, I think I'll be using fasttravel. On the other hand, I want to kill dragons and mudcrabs. I don't think I'll be using fast travel a lot, but sometimes I will.

[Nocturnal]

With my first play through I think I will try and not fast travel so I will get the most out of it. In previous games I tended to only use it if my inventory was full and just needed to drop things off in a house.

[whoman69]

I don't always have time to avoid fast travel, especially if they have quests like the Oblivion fighter's guild where you're constantly travelling from Chorral to Leyawin. You don't want to fast travel, fine. I don't look up to you for doing it, so down look down on me for fast travelling.

[Stendarr]

I don't always have time to avoid fast travel, especially if they have quests like the Oblivion fighter's guild where you're constantly travelling from Chorral to Leyawin. You don't want to fast travel, fine. I don't look up to you for doing it, so down look down on me for fast travelling.

That's because Oblivion was based on the assumption that you would fast travel, something which wasn't the case in Morrowind.