TES Book Discussion Thread

[Chaos the N'wah]

This thread is for the discussion of all books Elder Scrolls, whether they're in-game books or the official novels.
If you do talk about the official novels (The Infernal City, Lord of Souls) make sure to put them in Spoilers so those who haven't or don't want to know the plot of said books can still read posts without worry.
So let us talk of what you like of some books, dislike of others, interesting plot twists, a lack of understanding, future plot developments, need something explained, or something deciphered. There may be a lot of 'spill over' talk about Historical events and Languages here, try to keep to it in relation to the books written on said subject

For reference: UESP's Library by subject

My first spotlight will be on a book from Morrowind aptly named "Silence." A Short story about an adventurer out to rid Vvardenfel of a rogue Battlemage, it gives a small description of the spell itself and ends with a laugh. Morrowind Players may also recognize the name of a certain npc mentioned in this book

This isn't a Novel bashing thread, this is meant to be a discussion not a Hate flinging session, if you have nothing to say aside from "The novel sucks" don't post, we know that some people don't like it, we don't need spam

[JockoBeans]

I haven't read the full copy of the Infernal City, but I have seen that not very many people with how it affected the Lore of the ES.

[Woolymammoth]

Spoiler:

On the topic of the IC (Infernal City), what do you guys think about the new magical schools implemented by what is left of the Empire, as well as the recreation of the Altmeri Dominion, and the Argonian invasion of Morrowind?

Personally, on the latter of those 3, the Morrowind invasion was crap. Imo, the Argonians would never be organized enough to invade. If the meteor really did weaken the Dunmeri that much to not be able to fight them off, it would have hurt Skyrim as well (which according to lore, it did not).

The Argonian invasion is the equivalent of native Americans rising together and invading French Canada in the 17th century.

[MARS]

Spoiler:

I don't think the Argonians are all that disorganised. They have a unified government and a deep, old hate for the Dunmer. What we have seen of them in game is nothing compared to their actual force. With proper strategies I think it is quite plausible to have invaded a weakened Morrowind. I'm by no means an expert on wars but I that's my take.

[OblivionDuruza]

In response to the OP, is that Darothil the trainer of Illusion in Morrowind?

I love the book Grasping Fortune for its Hlaalu lore, I also enjoy the disaster report that can be found in places like the Chorrol Fighters' Guild (sorry to cross games there), great Akavir lore. Basically anything about elves I love, the book The Prayers of Baranat is another favourite and it was the subject of a riddle I posed not so long ago.

[Chaos the N'wah]

In response to the OP, is that Darothil the trainer of Illusion in Morrowind?

Yes, he's the Master illusion trainer (who sells more destruction spells than illusion oddly enough) that 'lives' in Dirty Muriel's Cornerclub

Also Wooly/mars, I specifically stated to put anything related to the novels in spoilers

On to another book, or more specifically a series: A Dance in Fire, this chapter/volume series is great for it's look into what Valenwood is like and the usual Waughin Jarth Fanfare of comedy and intrigue. It also takes place within the Five Year War, lore/book-buffs will remember this war mentioned in another one of my favorites Mixed Unit Tactics (Numerous types of Khajiit are stated here, along with the Dagi)

[Mucro]

The book is [&@%!], in my opinion.

[Chaos the N'wah]

It's great that you have an opinion, but there was absolutely nothing constructive about your post. This is a discussion thread, not a "lets vent our hatred" thread
I guess I'll add to the OP that this isn't a novel bashing thread, this is discussing in game books and established lore centered around the novels, provided people actually read it

[OblivionDuruza]

My Morrowind character is collecting books about the Dunmeri culture, Great Houses and theology. Any obscure little finds you could point me to would be great.

[TomDD]

Erm, I've never read an ingame book... except for that one time... yes... that time...


RED, RED, RED, RED, RED, RED.

You know the book

[Chaos the N'wah]

Sorry about that Duruza, forgot about this thread.

Some interesting reads on Dunmeri faith:

• The Book of Dawn and Dusk - Common idioms associated with the Temple ~ Rather funny
• The Book of Life and Service - a short snipit of Dunmeri ancestral undead ~ one of the few instances of the necromancy employed by the Dunmer being somewhat explained
• The Homilies of Blessed Almalexia - moral dunmeri children stories ~ like most children stories, good lessons learned and absolutely terrifying when you stop to look at what is in fact happening within the stories themselves
• The House of Troubles - a book on the four 'bad daedra' ~ a good look at how the Tribunal inserted themselves into Veloth's teachings
• Lives of the Saints - A list of the Saints of the Temple ~ a good list of some of the lesser known Dunmeri Saints
• Saryoni's Sermons - Sacred text of the values the Temple upholds ~ Lead by example, in this case do as Vivec does
• Vivec and Mephala - the Dichotomy of Vivec and his Anticipation ~ demonstrates how the Dunmer come to terms with deities that may not be all sunshine and glory

[Chaos the N'wah]

I apologize for the double post in advance...
I have additional Dunmeri books of mention...

• Blasphemous Revenants - a view on how Dunmer think of the undead outside of ancestor worship
• The Eastern Provinces - an imperial view of guarding Morrowind...
• Progress of Truth - How the Dissident Priests view the temple and their doctrines
• The Consolations of Prayer - another good list of the Dunmeri/Chimeri Saints

On the Morag Tong...

• Fire and Darkness - a look at the guild's history

On an unrelated note, I came across some books on some lesser known deities...

• The Ebon Arm - a brief book of the lesser known god of war
• Ius, Animal God - as the name says
• Of Jephre - God of Nature and a major figure in Bosmeri religion (see Green Pact)

[OblivionDuruza]

Thanks for the links Chaos, here's my Dunmer list:

(spoiler tagged for a reason, it's pretty long):

Spoiler:

The Province:
On Morrowind
A Short History of Morrowind
Guide to Vvardenfell
Guide to Vivec
The Eastern Provinces Impartially Considered

The Great Houses:
Great Houses of Morrowind
Grasping Fortune
Guide to Balmora
The True Noble's Code
Guide to Ald'ruhn
The Affairs of Wizards
Guide to Sadrith Mora

Other Native Guilds:
Poison Song
Fire and Darkness: The Brotherhoods of Death
Fellowship of the Temple
Reflections on Cult Worship

Theology (The Temple):
Ancestors and the Dunmer
The Doors of the Spirit
The Lost Prophecy
Nerevar Moon-and-Star
The Real Nerevar
Nerevar at Red Mountain
Kagrenac's Tools
The Battle of Red Mountain, and the Rise and Fall of the Tribunal
The Book of Dawn and Dusk
Lives of the Saints
The Pilgrim's Path
The Consolations of Prayer
The Cantatas of Vivec
Saryoni's Sermons
The Homilies of Blessed Almalexia
Progress of Truth

Daedra Worship:
The Book of Daedra
The Anticipations
Invocation of Azura
Boethiah's Glory
The Changed Ones
Vivec and Mephala
The House of Troubles

Other Interesting Books:
The Prayers of Baranat
The Four Suitors of Benitah
The Hope of the Redoran

[Chaos the N'wah]

You forgot something...
Varieties of Daedra ~ it was written by a Dissident Priest, talks of Fyr, and was published after the events of Morrowind...

[OblivionDuruza]

I've been looking into Khajiiti lore after reading about the Dro'Jizad and I found this, it's a nice enough read, this is too (although not new to me ), I like the idea that Azura 'created' the Khajiit as well as the Dunmer.

[POMC S117]

I like The Lusty Argonian Maid. It's nice to see that not everyone hates the beast people.

I also like the history books that you can find.

[MARS]

The novelletes is where it's at. Palla!

[mbedek]

To anyone who has read The Infernal City, would you recommend it? I've been considering buying a copy for a long time now, but a lot of mixed reviews have kept me from getting it.

[Chaos the N'wah]

If you're an avid TES lore fan or like Keyes' jump around writing style, then I'd recommend it. It's not as bad as others say it is, it's just hard to get into at the start.

[Velothi]

I'd like to ask if anyone has actually found, in Morrowind, All Thirty Six Sermons of Vivec?

My highest count so far is about twenty eight I found around the Temples and Archives of the various temples.

Though the, Chaos, the Dissident Priests are a bit wrong on the Daedra. Mostly on their ability to reproduce for one quest, involving Curing your Vamprism, you must kill one of Molag Bal's child.

That and one must dare wonder how he made so many Vampires. Though; the story involving it is...bizarre. The Sermons give us a headless Vivec whom stayed with Molag Bal for eighty days and eighty nights. Imagine that. The Horror is vast.

[soda popinski]

Is the book called "small diary" that is found at the beginning of the mehrunes razor quest listed in the UESP library, and if not can we add it?

I believe if it recall correctly, it was written by Frathen Drothan's cousin, and it reveals the password to gain entrance to the dungeon.

[Chaos the N'wah]

Small Diary

Normally small notes and game specific diaries are kept away from the library because of sheer number of them (and because a lot of them have similar names like 'torn note' or 'blood stained journal').
Notes and other small inconsequential writings are normally kept in the Note section under books for each game, but even in this particular case, the small diary isn't listed (perhaps it should be mentioned/edited) and you'll have to do some digging to find it under items in the Mehrune's Razor DLC section

[soda popinski]

It is a book though, and not a letter or note. Its the only book that i've found in Oblivion that hasnt been listed in their list of books, which is why i was kinda surprised when i found it. Granted, its short, but its not the shortest book out there.

[Chaos the N'wah]

There are a couple other books like the 'Weathered Journal' found outside Lost Boy Cavern and some logs scattered about the world (more so in Morrowind) that aren't put under the book section simply because they're relatively esoteric or far too simple. I think they are, for the most part, trying to keep the book sections to useful (skill or lore), interesting fiction and major quest specific books. But then I'm not the foremost expert in sectional division and what does or doesn't make it into the library for each game.

[soda popinski]

I tried to quickly count how many books are in Oblivion, including SI, and came up with 286. This could be off due to the fact that my brain gets bored counting that much, but it should be fairly close.

So far it sounds like there will be 300 books in the initial release of skyrim, and given the fact that for their DLC they sound like they want to do 2 or 3 big expansion packs, which going by SI's model would have 30 or so each, we could have a pretty sizeable amount of books by the time this game is totally released.

I'm also thinking that since its been 200 years, a lot of these books should be new. Im not sure what the timeframe between daggerfall and morrowind was, but from what i understand between MW and OB it was like 10 years or so, and while i didnt play morrowind too much and havent gotten into their lore yet, it seemed like a pretty good chunk of the books in OB were new.

Sadly I never read any of the books for the first 95% of the time i've played oblivion, but since ive gotten into it its becoming a favorite part of the game for me, so i expect to be collecting the books right off the bat this next time around.