Blocking

[Doctor Meaticus]

I seem to remember someone else starting a similar thread but can't find it, so I'm pitching this one.

Anyway, the old thread said something about the gameplay demo not showing blocking, and the response from just about everyone was that just because it didn't show blocking doesn't mean you can't block attacks.

I hate to break it to you guys, but apparently you can only block in Skyrim if you have a shield or are using a two-handed weapon - if your using magic and a weapon at the same time, or (presumably) wielding only one weapon, you can't block. To me, this seems utterly ridiculous.

I read this unsettling little nugget of info on a site which had summarized everything Todd Howard had said in interviews etc.

I don't know how blocking while dual-wielding will work, but the fact that I can't block with a weapon seems stupid. Am I supposed to just stand there while my enemies whale on me?

Thoughts? Questions? Angry outbursts?

[Shadowscale]

Are you sure about that because it seems pretty stupid to not be able to block with those weapons. And i thought Skyrim would be perfect aagh!

[Vendetta]

So I cant block with a sword, big deal. Taking a step to the side is just as, if not more effective.

[Hadrianus]

Well I would think you would only need to block if you were feeling a bit cumbersome. Hence why you block with two handed weapons and shields.
If you are dual-wielding or single armed fighting, you would probably be a more agile fighter, dodging and such. And take int account the new sprint feature.
And it would be a bit unrealistic to block blows from dragons and giants etc with smaller blades.
I think you can make sense of it. And in contrast to all the other great features of the game; I'm not sure why anyone bothers in complaining...
And they probably have a reason for doing this anyways, so stop being a back seat driver/ annoying critic and just sit back and anticipate this awesome game they are bringing us.

[Chaos the N'wah]

It's not going to kill my gaming experience (I normally use a shield or a two handed weapon), but I can't say I'm happy with this. It'll kill immersion somewhat to walk up to a bandit wielding two daggers and wail on him as he tries to just swing at you; now if they added a parry system (swing at the same time and blades/weapons interact) or npcs have an evasion AI template/better AI than Oblivion's "Face-to-face-brawling", then all would be fine. I think I'd take a Morrowind %-to-block/parry over none at all because it make you wonder what benefit does someone get (putting aside RP for a second) for using two weapons over a two-handed weapon (speed for defense?) or someone using a weapon and magic over using dual-fisted magic (Magicka conservation? stealth-bonus/poisons?).

[MrPuddings]

I could of sworn I saw a Block skill shown in the skills menu from that 14 minute gameplay video.

That was a beefed up character fighting in the demo. Maybe he didn't really have much of a reason to block? Maybe the person actually playing in that demo sucked?

I sure hope that was the reason and not the worst case scenario of blocking actually being limited to shields and two handers.

[White Lightning]

Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, the game will be utterly amazing, I probably won't even block! I'll be dual-wielding one-handers!

[Tazer]

if you watched the demo you can see him block while duel weilding those swords pal..

[MrPuddings]

if you watched the demo you can see him block while duel weilding those swords pal..

Just show me the exact moment in the video it happens, then I'll believe it.

[Cemiboy_FB]

if you watched the demo you can see him block while duel weilding those swords pal..

Just show me the exact moment in the video it happens, then I'll believe it.

while hes fighting the bandit! in the link on the uesp main page it's on 02:18

[Elune]

if you watched the demo you can see him block while duel weilding those swords pal..

Just show me the exact moment in the video it happens, then I'll believe it.

Why don't YOU show US where Todd Howard says blocking will work how you described, then I'll believe it.

And MrPuddings is correct, in the demo he does block while dual wielding swords.

[Hackattack]

Eh, i not so sure if that is a block a 2:18. To me it looked like just the end of the swing animation. Hopefully, it could be that you have to hold block to set up the finishing moves, hence the "block" looking stance he was in. I feel the game would play weird without block. Oblivion was block, hithithit, block, hittitt, stun, kill. Maybe Skyrim combat will play alot differently than it looks on a screen.

No complaints though, i trust whatever decision they make.

[DarthVader317]

If you indeed can't block while dual-wielding or using a one-handed weapon/magic combo, it's probably because the controlers won't have an available button to use to block. Isn't it going to work like the Left Trigger/L2 controls the item/spell in your left hand and the Right Trigger/R2 the right hand? Having a shield or two-handed weapon equiped would have a block button available. I'm just guessing, but it's comparable to not being able to throw grenades when dual-wielding in Halo or not being able to aim down the sights when dual wielding in Call of Duty. The button for block is just taken up by something else, so not being able to block all the time isn't going to bother me.

Though if you can't block with a one-handed weapon even if there's nothing in the other hand then there might be another reason.

[zzfallens]

I don't really care if you can't block with one handed weapons. I never really blocked with them because there was little to no effect. You would just stagger back and still get most of the damage from the attack.

[MARS]

Parries and counter attacks would be nice for one handed or dual wielding fighters. I can see the point of not being able to block, but being completely defenseless is also sort of daft.

[Elune]

On the PC at least there was an alternate button for block, besides right mouse button. On the console you have extra bumpers now, I doubt there'll be a lack of buttons.

[Haravikk]

My thinking is that blocking must be a separate button that isn't one of the two triggers (possibly a shoulder button?) as the triggers seem like they're for attacks, and it seems likely that the shield will have some attack options.

The case I'm more interested in is wielding a two-handed sword, as the attack button for both-hands will be controlling the same weapon, so maybe two-handed weapons have some extra options when it comes to special moves?


The only alternative would be to have blocking occur instead of an attack depending upon your timing in hitting the trigger; we've already been told that blocking will require timing, so it seems possible they could do it this way, but I'm not sure they would, as it would seem to take away your ability to take a hit just to get a killing strike in.

Another possibility is if you have a specific "off hand", which would be your defensive hand; in this case pressing the trigger for that hand while an enemy is attacking would trigger a block with a weapon, or possibly a spell (depending what your off hand has equipped).

So long as role-players can swap the off-hand to either left or right-handed then it could be a good alternative; so basically if you're dual-wielding one weapon would be your main attack weapon, while the other is an opportunistic defensive weapon.

[penumbra25]

From the evidence we have, I think the most logical answer would be that "blocking", by that I mean the use of the block skill, can only be done with shields. If you look at the perks for block, they are Shield Wall (first perk of that tree), Deadly Bash, Power Bash, Bash Disarm, Shield Charge, Deflect Arrows, Elemental Protection, Quick Reflexes. This collection seems very shield intensive.

This means we are likely looking at perks on the two-handed and one-handed weapons trees for defensive maneuvers. You can view this as the inverse of the how shields are treated. Shields are primarily a defensive implement, but you can make them offensive by learning Deadly Bash, Power Bash, Shield Charge, etc. It seems well within the realm of possibility that there will be perks for defense with weapons. Some that seem possible:

One-handed weapon: parry
Dual wielded one-handed weapon: cross block
Two-handed weapon: parry
Two-handed weapon: block

I can see Bethesda making the one-handed defensive perks have a higher required skill than the two-handed and the parry perk being more advanced than the block perk. It seems reasonable that one-handed parry could require a skill of 50. It requires a lot more technique to parry a blow than to swing away offensively.

If I remember from the demo, the PC's one-handed skill was not exceptionally high and there's no reason to believe they would have activated a perk for the character that would show something like that off. My guess is that if you want to dual-wield from the very beginning of the game, then you will sacrifice the defense of parry or block, but as you level that up more quickly because you are dual-wielding, you will gain access to those abilities to balance the character.

[Doctor Meaticus]

So I cant block with a sword, big deal. Taking a step to the side is just as, if not more effective.

Did you ever try stepping to the side while fighting Oblivion's faster enemies like goblins, trolls and humanoid NPCs? Didn't always work. The ability to block with a sword is a useful thing to have simply for the purpose of reducing the maximum damage you take.

I'm not saying Skyrim's enemies will fight in the same way, but I'm assuming fighting something isn't going to be as easy as stepping out the way... over and over and over again.

At the end of the day it's just a thought. I'll probably be pleasantly surprised by a convenient feature that has been added as a substitute for one-handed blocking (e.g parrying).

And they probably have a reason for doing this anyways, so stop being a back seat driver/ annoying critic and just sit back and anticipate this awesome game they are bringing us.

Back seat driver? Oh yeah, I forgot that I'm imposing my opinion upon Bethesda. The forum is meant to be used for discussion, and discussion may sometimes involve critique. Get over it, and stop being a derisive meatsack.

[OblivionDuruza]

Just a note. Shields only block if you tap at exactly the right time (I assume by tap it means tap the left hand-trigger). There is an attack for shields as speculated above, but it occurs if you hold down the shield button. Therefore, I see no need for a block specific button and have my doubts about it being a part of the game. It would be nice to parry, but you can do that by striking as your opponent does in a way.

[The Craft]

I'm thinking the right hand trigger will attack with the right hand, and the right bumper will block with the with the right, and the same thing for the left. I think for shields one of the buttons will block and the other will bash. And for spells combinations the two buttons will give you different ways to use them

[The Craft]

From the evidence we have, I think the most logical answer would be that "blocking", by that I mean the use of the block skill, can only be done with shields. If you look at the perks for block, they are Shield Wall (first perk of that tree), Deadly Bash, Power Bash, Bash Disarm, Shield Charge, Deflect Arrows, Elemental Protection, Quick Reflexes. This collection seems very shield intensive.

The perks are are focused on shields because he moves up the bashing branch of the tree; deflect arrows, elemental protection, and quick reflexes don't refer specifically to shields, and are off on other branches.

[penumbra25]

The perks are are focused on shields because he moves up the bashing branch of the tree; deflect arrows, elemental protection, and quick reflexes don't refer specifically to shields, and are off on other branches.

I'd be shocked if they let you deflect arrows with a sword. The PC is not a jedi.

[OblivionDuruza]

Craft makes some good points and I hope it's true. But, I remember reading in an article about the bumpers being assigned to something else. I'll check but it could have been dragon shouts .

On the topic of deflecting arrows (the last post), it could be a very advanced skill.

[DarthVader317]

One of the bumpers is for dragon shouts, IIRC. I'd image the other is for the grab function like in Oblivion.

Though I forgot about the shield attack/tapping at the right time to block feature, that would change the way blocking works from Oblivion and is a better reason for limited blocking abilities than the availablitity of buttons.