Why are you religious/non-religious?

[Wolfie]

Christians? Jews?

uncalled for some do but nto aqll

If god created the big bang, who created god then?

And if the earth is 11,000 years old, how did dinosaurs exist?

two problems

#1 bible dose not say the world is 11,00 years old

# 2 how was the big bang made then?

[VirtualWeasel]

Christians? Jews?

uncalled for some do but nto aqll

If god created the big bang, who created god then?

And if the earth is 11,000 years old, how did dinosaurs exist?

two problems

#1 bible dose not say the world is 11,00 years old

# 2 how was the big bang made then?

Your life doesn't have to be completely governed by a book.

[zzfallens]

zz.
No one created God. He has always been.

If no one created god, then how come we can't just say that about the big bang? The big bang has always been around as a microscopic particle, waiting to open.

and I don't think the earth is only 11,000 years old. The sun would not even be a main sequence star if it were 11,000. Life could not exist.

Exactly. But you know what? The bible says the Earth is 11,000 years old. The thing that Christianity is based upon.

[born2beagator]

zz.
No one created God. He has always been.

If no one created god, then how come we can't just say that about the big bang? The big bang has always been around as a microscopic particle, waiting to open.

and I don't think the earth is only 11,000 years old. The sun would not even be a main sequence star if it were 11,000. Life could not exist.

Exactly. But you know what? The bible says the Earth is 11,000 years old. The thing that Christianity is based upon.

I believe that God created the big bang. Much of genesis can't be taken compeletely literally btw
Where does it say the earth is 11,000 years old?

[Dark Lord Cam]

Tell me, if god is a loving God, why does he condemn you to Hell for not being absolutely obedient to him? You call this free will. I call this a horrible, horrible twisted logic.

How is it free will if the choices we make can make God intentionally abandon us if we don't listen to him? If we truly had free will, as you claim, then everyone would be given an equal chance to follow their own destiny after death.

The way Christianity paints it, free will is sin unless you submit fully to the will of the divine. This is a blatant contradiction that everyone in this discussion has missed.

[zzfallens]

That or 6,000 years. That is part of the religion. I don't remember exactly where it says that but I'll look it up right now.

[The Dog Whisperer]

Took way too long to read the past 8 pages. lol

its kind of like a parent a "good parent" teachers the kid their beliefs but will not force them they still let them have free will God is not going to force you to do things cause he loves you and wants you to pick, he wants you to love him on your own part not being forced,if you give someone a "love potion" is it as good as when the person falls for you y them selfs?

But what parent punishes their child when they make a choice that the parent, who gave them it, didn't want?
If you're saying "Here's a choice" you don't add repercussions to one and rewards to another- Want some cake, or some pie?
You can have pie, but I don't want you to, so if you choose it I'm gonna dip it in the toilet first.
Or we can take Roadcone's nice "Have sex, then I'll shoot you" analogy. lol

And then earlier;

how do you figure God Create Homosexual?

Well if it's genetic, which you pseudo-agreed, (i.e. Couldn't/Didn't argue with) and God has the power to somehow give Adam and Eve "more" genes (While keeping them human, of course) then surely he makes, or doesn't, the 'gay gene'?
But you also said it's a choice:

he cerated free will which lets you choice to sleep with someone of the same gender

In which case we're back to the cake or pie matter.
He didn't make the gun or the nuke or the homosexual, but he made the context within which they exist?
Yes it's a proxy, but a proxy is still somewhat responsible- Would the shooter have been able to shoot if their gun hadn't been made? Or Lindai's "Hitler's Parents" example.
His parents made him who he is, and who made his parents who they were? And their parents? etc. Back on a chain all the way back to "The Maker", via Adam and Eve, who chose to eat the apple, but could only choose because God had given her free will.
i.e. It is God's fault.

So many ninja posts. :\
Again you're still not saying, do you think it's a choice or genetic? See above either way.
I still think people are mixing up the definitions of religion, though.
Some are using it referring to the organisation, dogma and "teachings" of the churches- That's where any arguable faults are.
Others are just using it in the sense of their beliefs- gator's idea of God creating the big bang.

I'm hardly the biggest believer, but I do think you can believe in [the "traditional"] God without following all the rules and regulations of a church.

The bible is more of a liability in an argument than a tool, though- People have been taking from it since as long as there has been Christianity. And everytime something is disproved the "meaning" of it changes, it's like a neverending sequence of backpeddling as things are discovered and circumstances change.
Which is pretty much why I amn't into religion. [In the "church" sense]

Ffs, can I post without some ninjas, please? lol

[born2beagator]

Tell me, if god is a loving God, why does he condemn you to Hell for not being absolutely obedient to him? You call this free will. I call this a horrible, horrible twisted logic.

How is it free will if the choices we make can make God intentionally abandon us if we don't listen to him? If we truly had free will, as you claim, then everyone would be given an equal chance to follow their own destiny after death.

The way Christianity paints it, free will is sin unless you submit fully to the will of the divine. This is a blatant contradiction that everyone in this discussion has missed.

I guess this comes from me considering that Christianity is the true belief.

[zzfallens]

"The Bible provides a complete genealogy from Adam to Jesus. You can go through the genealogies and add up the years. You'll get a total that is just over 4,000 years. Add the 2,000 years since the time of Jesus and you get just over 6,000 years since God created everything."

[born2beagator]

"The Bible provides a complete genealogy from Adam to Jesus. You can go through the genealogies and add up the years. You'll get a total that is just over 4,000 years. Add the 2,000 years since the time of Jesus and you get just over 6,000 years since God created everything."

huh, I will have to study up on that more before I can give you an intelligent answer. you have a point there.

[Stendarr]

As it turns out, there are three main mitochondrial DNA lineages found across the world. The evolutionists have labeled these lines “M”, “N”, and “R

So three only three? thats about rgiht with the sotry of adam and eve

hmm [/quote]
Except it comes a VERY long way from the first signs of life - ie. thousands, if not millions of years BEFORE the first humans.
And BEFORE humans existed, there was a long evolutionary process including a lot of mutations AND natural selection.

Yes, because obviously that's the only explanation possible if homosexuality is a gene thing. The problem is, you know nothing about genetics. If homosexuality was due to consanguinity, after all these years, homosexuals wouldn't be such a minority. You have to know, consanguinity means the very same genes are always reused, there IS variation because we give only half of our genes, but it hardly is enough variation, there's not even new genes. Since homosexual exists, if it was due to a consanguinity thing - and we talk about it coming from TWO parents, and not hundreds, making things tenfold worse - it would be much, much, much more present.

so then you agree its a choice?

That would be considering I believe the creation to be true. Which is not the case, if that was not evident enough.

I'm not talking about how old is the Earth.

but you did say thousands of years when it never says how old it is

Huh? Re-read again. I did not talk about the Earth's age. I'm talking about humanity dude, read up...

And you should be less naĩve. That's pseudo-scientific [&@%!] A real scientist doesn't try to "discover" things to fit his religious (or any at all) agenda, a real scientist gather clues, evidence and such from observations and calculations, then analyzing the information and interpreting it, makes theories.

Take a look at this website and browse through the "scientific" publications. We've been wrong all along. Scientists explain things that is OBSERVABLE, trying to use their theories for predictions, and the more predictions, the more validity they get. It's easy to come up with [&@%!] that explains something you want to be true if you can't flat-out disprove it, but that doesn't mean it's more valid. Those crazy dudes came up with tons of reasons for everything, and it's actually kinda hard to argue with them. But you know it's all [&@%!] when all their theories are disconnected, don't work together and only explain specific things when everything else the real scientists came up with fit marvelously together, AND manages to make predictions. Same things with that creationist dude who ignores the countless evidence towards evolution. Did you know whales have pelvises? Did you know we have a bone that is usually used for tails? Did you know we have a part in our intestines that are used by herbivores to digest things we can't? It's because we have common ancestors.

DUDE, please, tell me what is scientific in taking unproven things as true, and using them into researches? Or at least using them in a scientific text? That's utter travesty.

So if this is so wrong shoe me one thing that is right?
if its wrong cause you say so?

prove this is not true as it deals with science so you can

Are you for real? Do you seriously think I'm making all this up? Have you not learned just a little bit about evolution or the Earth being round from high school?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round_earth

The evidence from mitochondrial DNA fits our model just as neatly as the Y chromosome data. As it turns out, there are three main mitochondrial DNA lineages found across the world. The evolutionists have labeled these lines “M”, “N”, and “R”, so we’ll refer to them by the same names. They would not say these came off the Ark. They claim they were derived from older lines found in Africa, but this is based on a suite of assumptions (I discussed these in detail in a recent article in the Journal of Creation7). It also turns out that M, N, and R differ by only a few mutations. This gives us some indication of the amount of mutation that occurred in the generations prior to the Flood.

After all why are their only three main ones?

We don't know yet. But this is a great showcase of using information to fit your agenda. The thing is, there has been a long, long, long time since that primordial DNA lineage compared to the "flood", and that's something very important to consider, because it changes everything. More pseudo-scientific stuff using lines from the Bible to help support their things...

You keep saying that what I post is some type of scene yet
you have posted nothing to prove your point
only using the fact you know i know nothing about this

You said it yourself, I use facts, so it very much at least helps to prove my point.

Your missing the point
just cause we "found" out about them now dose not mean they did not exist back then

No, YOU are missing the point. The point is that you gave an explanation for why genetics are as they are today when it is not in the bible, thus you are not proving anything about the Bible. I certainly know genetics always existed, but you speak as if God changed something about it at some point while NOTHING about it is in the bible, thus you coming up with something.

so who ignored what?

That came up after dude, so I couldn't be ignoring it.

Total control means we can do more choices... Plus, why did you argue about adrenalin and heartbeats if that doesn't matter in the first place...

Huh becuse your points are flawed we can control them

So, you tell me it's not about total control when coming up with points, but then you bother talking about some of those points which can be somewhat talked about?

Many pepole do it, I've done it
no one said a choice is instant either

Because you were clinically diagnosed to be depressive? At 16? Yeah sure. Unless you had extreme bullying. But then, it takes time to stop being depressive and I fail to see how someone can be bullied to the point of being depressive, only to then stop being offended by it and feeling better afterwards. Even more since depression makes you feel even more bad, it should even be harder to not be offended by it, and then returning to normal. There's a long way before getting depressive for real. Thing is, if we make choices in our life that makes it better to us, curing us from depression, it does not mean we chose to stop being depressive. I think you don't know that depression is a mental disease, it's not exactly something you can have much control over.

it's also proven you can ignore it
so yes it is an opinion

I already knew I shouldn't be arguing with you - but I don't have much to do and am waiting for a movie to be burned on a dvd - but this is the cream on the cake. That's utterly senseless. I'm done with it.

[Stendarr]

If no one created god, then how come we can't just say that about the big bang? The big bang has always been around as a microscopic particle, waiting to open.

That is something I will never get. Why does the Universe needs an explanation when God doesn't? That's just throwing the ball to someone else.

[born2beagator]

If no one created god, then how come we can't just say that about the big bang? The big bang has always been around as a microscopic particle, waiting to open.

That is something I will never get. Why does the Universe needs an explanation when God doesn't? That's just throwing the ball to someone else.

As someone who believes in the Bible, I would say that God is beyond our comprehension. A being isn't all powerful if it was created

btw, I am really surprised there are so many here than do not believe in God

[Dark Lord Cam]

I neither reject nor accept God. The existence of deities is unknowable.

I simply noticed flaws in both sides of this discussion.

[zzfallens]

If no one created god, then how come we can't just say that about the big bang? The big bang has always been around as a microscopic particle, waiting to open.

That is something I will never get. Why does the Universe needs an explanation when God doesn't? That's just throwing the ball to someone else.

I know right. And I'm not saying the big bang theory is 100% correct either. Its just a theory. No one really knows how the Universe came to be. Some people think they do, but they really don't. There is a lot of proof, but it isn't 100% certain or correct. It doesn't really matter to us anyway. Its like a bug caring about who made the structure it is walking on. I know this has been said so much before, but we really are a bunch of evolved apes floating around on a spec in a far corner of some lonely galaxy floating around in the vast universe. It really doesn't concern us.

[Arch-Mage Matt]

I'm surprised there are so many people here who do believe in God.


"The Bible provides a complete genealogy from Adam to Jesus. You can go through the genealogies and add up the years. You'll get a total that is just over 4,000 years. Add the 2,000 years since the time of Jesus and you get just over 6,000 years since God created everything."


Doesn't this prove that the Bible is false?

[born2beagator]

I neither reject nor accept God. The existence of deities is unknowable.

I simply noticed flaws in both sides of this discussion.

Which is my point. An all powerful being is beyond our comprehension.

arch mage, like I have said, I had not thought of that. not going to change my belief though. I will have to study that, and go to some outside sources before I can give an intelligent answer.

[Stendarr]

As someone who believes in the Bible, I would say that God is beyond our comprehension. A being isn't all powerful if it was created

But why would the Universe be more within our comprehension? We still use God to explain something which we will never fully grasp, something beyond our comprehension. Because we'll never find logic in the Universe's "doings", like we will never find in God's. I don't see how using God to explain the Universe makes more sense than me creating Bob, the uber-divinity that created God. It's still explaining something we can't explain, or is "beyond our comprehension" with something which is as much "beyond our comprehension".

I know right. And I'm not saying the big bang theory is 100% correct either. Its just a theory. No one really knows how the Universe came to be. Some people think they do, but they really don't. There is a lot of proof, but it isn't 100% certain or correct. It doesn't really matter to us anyway. Its like a bug caring about who made the structure it is walking on. I know this has been said so much before, but we really are a bunch of evolved apes floating around on a spec in a far corner of some lonely galaxy floating around in the vast universe. It really doesn't concern us.

Yeah, and Big Bang theory or not, there is still a Universe. It doesn't need a creator. I firmly believe we'll never be able to fully explain the Universe, as there is a limited logic available to describe God's doings, but that's just something we'll have to live with.

[born2beagator]

As someone who believes in the Bible, I would say that God is beyond our comprehension. A being isn't all powerful if it was created

But why would the Universe be more within our comprehension? We still use God to explain something which we will never fully grasp, something beyond our comprehension. Because we'll never find logic in the Universe's "doings", like we will never find in God's. I don't see how using God to explain the Universe makes more sense than me creating Bob, the uber-divinity that created God. It's still explaining something we can't explain, or is "beyond our comprehension" with something which is as much "beyond our comprehension".

ummmm....you lost me

[zzfallens]

I'm surprised there are so many people here who do believe in God.


"The Bible provides a complete genealogy from Adam to Jesus. You can go through the genealogies and add up the years. You'll get a total that is just over 4,000 years. Add the 2,000 years since the time of Jesus and you get just over 6,000 years since God created everything."


Doesn't this prove that the Bible is false?

Yes it does. Because the earth is not 6,000 years old. Neither is the Universe. But then people are like "well maybe everything in the bible is just metaphors and stuff, so maybe a day for god is like a billion years! And it took him 7 billion years to create the universe!! Yeah!!!" Then why can't god be a metaphor for something we have no idea about, like how we have no idea how the universe was created. Just like how "men can't comprehend god."

[born2beagator]

I'm surprised there are so many people here who do believe in God.


"The Bible provides a complete genealogy from Adam to Jesus. You can go through the genealogies and add up the years. You'll get a total that is just over 4,000 years. Add the 2,000 years since the time of Jesus and you get just over 6,000 years since God created everything."


Doesn't this prove that the Bible is false?

Yes it does. Because the earth is not 6,000 years old. Neither is the Universe. But then people are like "well maybe everything in the bible is just metaphors and stuff, so maybe a day for god is like a billion years! And it took him 7 billion years to create the universe!! Yeah!!!" Then why can't god be a metaphor for something we have no idea about, like how we have no idea how the universe was created. Just like how "men can't comprehend god."

yeah, thats not in-your-face at all

Like I said, you have a point, and I need to study that. But I am not going to give up my faith

[Dark Lord Cam]

I neither reject nor accept God. The existence of deities is unknowable.

I simply noticed flaws in both sides of this discussion.

Which is my point. An all powerful being is beyond our comprehension.

arch mage, like I have said, I had not thought of that. not going to change my belief though. I will have to study that, and go to some outside sources before I can give an intelligent answer.

Not quite. You say he can not be comprehended but you also say that you are certain of his existence.

What I am saying, is that it is impossible to know whether or not a god exists simply because neither side can prove their point. Both give good arguments. Some have more evidence than others. Yet, it can never be proven. Therefore, the existence of deities to me is unknowable. This is what it means to be Agnostic.

[Stendarr]

Yes it does. Because the earth is not 6,000 years old. Neither is the Universe. But then people are like "well maybe everything in the bible is just metaphors and stuff, so maybe a day for god is like a billion years! And it took him 7 billion years to create the universe!! Yeah!!!" Then why can't god be a metaphor for something we have no idea about, like how we have no idea how the universe was created. Just like how "men can't comprehend god."

We also have to take into consideration one of the only religions which came up after most scientific discoveries is Scientology. I firmly believe religion was something used to explain what couldn't be explained back then, like the creation of the Universe and humanity, but there is many things that can be explained nowadays, and I think if such information was available back then, spirituality would have manifested itself in a much different manner.

[born2beagator]

I neither reject nor accept God. The existence of deities is unknowable.

I simply noticed flaws in both sides of this discussion.

Which is my point. An all powerful being is beyond our comprehension.

arch mage, like I have said, I had not thought of that. not going to change my belief though. I will have to study that, and go to some outside sources before I can give an intelligent answer.

Not quite. You say he can not be comprehended but you also say that you are certain of his existence.

What I am saying, is that it is impossible to know whether or not a god exists simply because neither side can prove their point. Both give good arguments. Some have more evidence than others. Yet, it can never be proven. Therefore, the existence of deities to me is unknowable. This is what it means to be Agnostic.

Except I believe in the Bible, in which there are instances where people have been in the presence of God, which is why I cannot deny his existence

[Stendarr]

Not quite. You say he can not be comprehended but you also say that you are certain of his existence.

What I am saying, is that it is impossible to know whether or not a god exists simply because neither side can prove their point. Both give good arguments. Some have more evidence than others. Yet, it can never be proven. Therefore, the existence of deities to me is unknowable. This is what it means to be Agnostic.

While it's very true that God could pretty much exist, it's something which always buggered me about religion. Take Scientology for example, everyone thinks it's utter [&@%!], yet we can't disprove it either. That's the problem, anyone can come up with his crazy story.

Except I believe in the Bible, in which there are instances where people have been in the presence of God, which is why I cannot deny his existence

I could write a novel and said I met God. Would it be true? Well, Scientology tried it and some people digged it.