Why are you religious/non-religious?

[MARS]

I mean no offense by this but for all we know the bible could have been a completely re-worked book by the time it was printed.

[JockoBeans]

If you feel the need to tell me any of these contradictions in holy texts show me in pm as i Garnette you 100% you have been misinformed

The Old Testament and New Testament, for a start.

Like how? I see the New fulfilling the Old. Unless you mean Jesus and the Apostles going ending the need to strictly adhere to the Law of Moses.

[Veck]

I'm talking the completely different representations of god and the attitudes of the two parts of the bible. Plus you can go into things like how an all-knowing god would be able to give you free will if he knows exactly what you're going to do anyway, how an all-loving god can give you eternal torture etc.

[Wolfie]

@Wolfie, there are contradictions in holy texts. The Koran and the Bible offer opposing views on a few things.

Example: Jesus Christ.

Cristian view: He is the Messiah and Son of God, He is the Redeemer and humanity's savior
Muslim view: He was a prophet and just a man, He is an important prophet, but not as much as Mohammed.

but those are two deferent religions, both of them have the carcthers, but one belives he is the son of man and the other dose not

catholics also worship marry (ehh mayvbe i should say hold in high regard)
it dose not mean there are contradictions IN thw world
its just how humans judge the workds

[MARS]

Which makes me feel the need to say that the bible has been greatly misinterpreted over the years. I'd say more but no. I'll shut up now.

[Wolfie]

Oh my bad i read it wrong osrry mars

I'm talking the completely different representations of god and the attitudes of the two parts of the bible. Plus you can go into things like how an all-knowing god would be able to give you free will if he knows exactly what you're going to do anyway, how an all-loving god can give you eternal torture etc.

all knowing god is eazy
he knows all, he is not stuck in our times, he sees all that we can or will do
he is not bound to our time, if i do this he knows, if i do that he knows
think of it like this god is "above us"
he sees all paths we can amke but its up to us to make them

all loving god give eternal torture?
simple as you said in the OT he caused a lot of "woe" to pepole, this has not changed at all
now he decide to send his son to die for all and if they reject then they just go to hell
just skipping some woe
another way to say it is this

Back in the OT you required a sacrifice, be it sheep or a town
Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice
so there is no need for us to be punished for our sins, but if we turn away form Christ then we reject the gift and he wont force anything on you so if you say no he will take the gift away, and then your in hell

simple no?

[Stendarr]

Wolfie, I think you summed up pretty well why I never was able to believe in God initially. It's still one of the reasons I don't though.

[Wolfie]

Exspalin?

[Stendarr]

I don't think it's a good idea, I'll probably get crucified or something...

[MARS]

As long as it's not offensive, post it. I'm interested.

[Roadcone]

I'm sorry, when i said contradictions in holy texts, i meant contradiction the Bible contradicting itself, or the Koran or the Torah contradicting themselves. not them contradicting each other.

This is a website listing all of the contradictions in the bible.

However, there are other reasons that i don't believe as well as this. For example, even by the most conservative estimates, the human race has existed as Homo-Sapiens for 100,000 years. This is a long time. until 4000 years ago there was no contact from god with the human race. this means that for 96,000 years, the kingdom of heaven watched as man had wars, committed sin and brought himself to within inches of extinction several times. it took God 96,000 years and countless billions of human lives before he decided to intervene and began sending prophets down to earth. Why is that?

[Dark Lord Cam]

Remember fellas. We are watching this. Stay civil. Or else.

[Stendarr]

I'm sorry, when i said contradictions in holy texts, i meant contradiction the Bible contradicting itself, or the Koran or the Torah contradicting themselves. not them contradicting each other.

This is a website listing all of the contradictions in the bible.

However, there are other reasons that i don't believe as well as this. For example, even by the most conservative estimates, the human race has existed as Homo-Sapiens for 100,000 years. This is a long time. until 4000 years ago there was no contact from god with the human race. this means that for 96,000 years, the kingdom of heaven watched as man had wars, committed sin and brought himself to within inches of extinction several times. it took God 96,000 years and countless billions of human lives before he decided to intervene and began sending prophets down to earth. Why is that?

Plus, we probably exist only because of a few fortunate mutations from our single-celled ancestors. Tons of animals have analogous body parts they might not even use (like our cocs which is mean for tails, or the whale's pelvis), and I fail to see how evolution can fit in with a God.

[Roadcone]

Don't worry! i was very meticulous when scanning that for anything insulting. The last thing i wanna do is insult anyone.

[The Dog Whisperer]

I'd rather make my own.

Pretty much what I think.

[Lindai]

I think of myself as being moderately religious as the existence of a higher being offers an explanation to some massive coincidences that can't really be scientifically explained. Also, Catholicism comes hand in hand with a moral code that I respect and do my best to follow/uphold. True religious people are good people. If everyone were religious,and true to their religions' teachings of peace etc. , then would the world not be peaceful and completely feud-free?

[JockoBeans]

I think of myself as being moderately religious as the existence of a higher being offers an explanation to some massive coincidences that can't really be scientifically explained. Also, Catholicism comes hand in hand with a moral code that I respect and do my best to follow/uphold. True religious people are good people. If everyone were religious,and true to their religions' teachings of peace etc. , then would the world not be peaceful and completely feud-free?

I really agree with you Lindai, but I will say before somebody else does... there are the fanatics. They believe that true peace on Earth is only attainable through war and bloodshed. There are fanatics for every religion and they stretch their beliefs past the limit.

They tend to believe the old Crusader saying, "Baptism or bloodshed". Or "Allhu akbar" if the person is a Jihadist.

[MARS]

Ah, zeal...well there can be fanatics anywhere. It's not just a religious phenomenon. In any case, I think peace can't be attained through bloodshed. Not true peace. More like the "Stay where you belong or else!" peace.

[JockoBeans]

Commissars, anyone?

Reminds me of a slogan I heard, "Your party no best". I think you can figure what they mean by that.

Yes their have been the zealified fighters of non-religious groups as well. The knights of old chivalry were like this. The samurai can be counted in as well. Then comes the modern fanatics of the "-isms".

Also, is anyone thinking of the SA or the SS?

[Dark Lord Cam]

Note: Allah hu Akbar actually means "God is Great" Its connection to Jihadists is very minimal. It is more akin to Christians saying "Praise Jesus" than it is a battle cry.

[Eltee]

Hey.
I do believe in a higher power, mostly because I think that the world id too beautiful to be random, and too random to be accidental.

[Arch-Mage Matt]

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" -- No matter what our Earth could have been, we would have seen it as beautiful.

[Wolfie]

I'm sorry, when i said contradictions in holy texts, i meant contradiction the Bible contradicting itself, or the Koran or the Torah contradicting themselves. not them contradicting each other.

This is a website listing all of the contradictions in the bible.

i'll get to this later

However, there are other reasons that i don't believe as well as this. For example, even by the most conservative estimates, the human race has existed as Homo-Sapiens for 100,000 years. This is a long time. until 4000 years ago there was no contact from god with the human race.

how do you figure?
garden of eden?
Tower of babel?
and much more no where in the bible dose it say that its only been 4000 years once again thats man interpreting it as such

this means that for 96,000 years, the kingdom of heaven watched as man had wars, committed sin and brought himself to within inches of extinction several times. it took God 96,000 years and countless billions of human lives before he decided to intervene and began sending prophets down to earth. Why is that?

First off remember there was a time when all his people followed him, when they started going away he then sent prophets to help again i ask you to show a bible that says it was only 4000 years time

A bit big and i could do this all day but this should be enough to prove this guy was just looking for mistakes and did not research them

Spoiler:

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

first off if you read this you can see that Gen 2 is not in order

Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

the part in bold is important, its telling you the BACKSTORY, its not saying he made them right there, its a side not hince the period its letting you know that he had made the animals and brought them to Adam to name
so see there is nothing about "who came first"
its just people LOOKING for a mistake and misreading

The flood story is really two interwoven stories that contradict each other on how many of each kind of animal are to be brought into the Ark--is it one pair each or seven pairs each of the "clean" ones?

Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV
is what it says notice it says pairs but not one pair
so i have one pair of deer
and i have seven pairs of cats (I'm not 100% on what’s clean and not)
Its still called pairs
once again this guy is looking for a "mistake" as such he finds one but it is really his mistake, not the bibles

heck even use his verse

GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

So they went in two and two
that means two Zebras went in
and then two more could of gone in
same thing deferent words

1KI 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

2CH 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

1 Kings 4:26 talks about the number of horses for his chariots whilst II Chronicles talks about the number of chariots. King Solomon simply had 10 horses per chariot.

notice "for" and "of"

PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

First off this is really dumb, its not a contradiction
#1 What here says that Wisdom is fun and happy? none
it says it is important
and knowledge dose increase sorrow and woe, look at our knowledge of how to kill
thats what I believe its saying but even so nothing here says Wisdom is jolly
it just says it is important
as for the third one, this means he will "throw down the kings and give it to the poor"
Also i believe it refers to the "wise" people like the heads of the temple who believed they where right but where wrong
and as such Jesus gave understanding to the others who where "prudent"
even none of mine is true there is no contradiction

ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Fruit of his loins means one children, he would be Jesues "earthly father" kind of how like god is our father
or someone who raised you since birth is your "dad"
Notice it says raise not make
being the father on earth dose not talk about him having sex with marry
yet again this guy has been wrong

ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

In Deuteronomy 24:16, God establishes a number of laws by which the people would be judged and kept he said none would be punisher for the sins of the father and the father for the child

As for the other one http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... rsion=KJ21
its about attacking Babylon (which in history was wiped out)
If a country went to war back then it was very common for the pepole to suffer as they sided with their country
that’s what it means

LEV 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
LEV 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
LEV 11:15 Every raven after his kind;
LEV 11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
LEV 11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
LEV 11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
LEV 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
DEU 14:12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
DEU 14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
DEU 14:14 And every raven after his kind,
DEU 14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
DEU 14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
DEU 14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
DEU 14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Fun fact tralsation is fun!
anyways the word used in place of bbirds is "owph" or "one who flys"
the best thing we got is Birds
Remember they did not have mammals and all the other classifications we had
calling them a mainamal would serve no popous as it did not exist back then

LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

Now I feel as if I should post some links as to show that I'm not making this up on the spot and besides this is explained better by them
http://www.tektonics.org/af/cudchewers.html


I could go on but do you really want me to post every single one?
I will, but I want to be nice to every one

[Moeboid]

If we're going to debate whether or not the bible contradicts itself, let's pick one specific example and talk about that. If we try to debate them all, this thread is just going to be an absolute mess. Also, let's make absolutely sure that we're speaking to each other with respect. Your goal should be to discuss rather than to argue. We should not be trying to convince others that they're wrong, we should be working with others to find out what is right.

@ Wolfie: In one of your posts, you claimed that there are no contradictions in holy texts. A few posts later, however, it seems that you are claiming that it doesn't matter if two different holy texts contradict each other. Obviously if different holy texts contradict each other, then they both can't be 100% truth. Perhaps what you're trying to say is that if we interpreted them both properly, they would agree with each other? Not sure, but yeah, you should clarify that.

[Arch-Mage Matt]

Man existed before Jesus and Christianity, and they had different religions too. The Romans, Greek, and even before them (Mesopotamia etc.) are just some examples of man living without Christianity. God didn't just leave man alone, he let them 'sin' and believe anything they wanted to believe. How exactly does it make sense for God to let man live without Christianity for so long then just decide to send a prophet to guide them?