Sheogorath?...

Pre-Release Archive

Moderator: Tea Party Mods

User avatar
Arrilyn
Initiate
Initiate
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 12:32 am
ES Games: Oblivion
Platform: Xbox 360
Status: I'm a bit of a noob to UESP, please be gentle

Sheogorath?...

Post by Arrilyn »

Assuming the 'new' sheogorath isn't actually a daedric prince and most likely will be dead by the time we enter Skyrim... Would Sheogorath be considered a Daedric prince? Will there be a replacement? Im not expecting anyone to know, but what are your opinions, what do you think could happen?

Another topic of similar content: If the Hero in Oblivion was an altmer, or Dunmer, isn't it quite possible they will still be alive during the crisis in Skyrim?...
"It is only by fate that any life ends, and only by chance that it is mine... not yours."
User avatar
Haravikk
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:59 pm
ES Games: Morrowind, Oblivion
Platform: XBox 360, PC (WINE)

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Haravikk »

Arrilyn wrote:Another topic of similar content: If the Hero in Oblivion was an altmer, or Dunmer, isn't it quite possible they will still be alive during the crisis in Skyrim?...
Depends how long they were in the prison in the Imperial City, plus being the mad-god might age you like crazy :D

As for Sheogorath, it's one of the things I'm most interested to find out, even if it's just in a book somewhere, though I'd love there to be a shrine to the old Sheogorath in Skyrim, with followers that can fill you in (either depressed that there is no answer to their pleas). It would be very interesting though if by freeing Jyggalag the hero of Cyrodiil actually became a Daedric Prince over time, or was eventually replaced by a new one!
Coupaholic
Novice
Novice
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:14 am
ES Games: Oblivion, Morrowind (ish)
Platform: PC

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Coupaholic »

Haravikk wrote:As for Sheogorath, it's one of the things I'm most interested to find out, even if it's just in a book somewhere, though I'd love there to be a shrine to the old Sheogorath in Skyrim, with followers that can fill you in (either depressed that there is no answer to their pleas). It would be very interesting though if by freeing Jyggalag the hero of Cyrodiil actually became a Daedric Prince over time, or was eventually replaced by a new one!
It never occurred to me, but now you mention it I'm curious now!

I'd like to see some mention of him, like Haravikk suggests perhaps an overgrown or weathered statue to the classic Madgod with a few poor nutters who are more confused than normal. Or a shiny new one hailing the 're-incarnated' Madgod - they may even use the same function they did for the Bravil statue and actually have your Oblivion character on there!

And Jyggalag? Would we see a shrine to him I wonder? Probably worshipped by librarians or something...
User avatar
Chaos the N'wah
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 1555
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:25 am
Status: Always lurking
Location: Tenmar Forest

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Chaos the N'wah »

Coupaholic wrote: And Jyggalag? Would we see a shrine to him I wonder? Probably worshipped by librarians or something...
Jyggalag has been Sheogorath for as long as a lot of races had formed religion so likely we'll either see newly erected statues or maybe a quest to build one like Boethiah's in Morrowind...
Kavatch99
Journeyman
Journeyman
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:17 pm
ES Games: Morrwind and Oblivion.
Platform: 360.
Status: Relaxing...
Location: Alabama, United States of America.

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Kavatch99 »

I must've forgotten it, but has it been confirmed that the Hero of Cyrodill, if s/he did the SI, eventually turns into the new "Sheogorath" to help Mr. Dragonborn?
<=========+<(0___0<)
"Kirby: The Dragonborn"
Image
User avatar
ZombieMonkeyNZ
Journeyman
Journeyman
Posts: 372
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:40 pm
ES Games: Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion
Platform: XBox 360, PC
Status: All Hail the Hypnotoad
Location: SSV Normandy SR2
Contact:

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by ZombieMonkeyNZ »

Haravikk wrote:Depends how long they were in the prison in the Imperial City, plus being the mad-god might age you like crazy :D
The Champion of Cyrodiil, A.K.A, The Madgod, never ascended to immorality, so they are still subject to the physical world, which means they still age.

But as the events of The Shivering Isles were canonized, it should make for an interesting outcome in Skyrim. :mrgreen:
Haskil's immortal right? He could be the new Madgod. He does know more about the job than the original Sheogorath ever did!
And, it would be extremely interesting! :lol:

"Your mother was a hamster!
And you father smelt, of Elderberries!"
User avatar
Chaos the N'wah
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 1555
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:25 am
Status: Always lurking
Location: Tenmar Forest

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Chaos the N'wah »

We don't know for sure if the Champion ascended to immortality or not. But there have been mortals who have before, so I guess we'll find out in Skyrim
User avatar
dragonfett
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:11 pm
ES Games: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
Platform: XBox 360, PC
Other Profiles: dragonfett2

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by dragonfett »

I had always thought that when the Hero of Cyrodil became the Madgod, they also ascended to immortality. How do we know for a fact that is not the case?
Under the Pain of Death
I Stand Alone
Against an Army of Darkness
And Horrors Unknown
User avatar
Dark Spark
Undecided
Undecided
Posts: 4746
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:37 am
ES Games: Oblivion (SI); Skyrim (DB)
Platform: XBox
Status: Reality and I aren't on speaking terms right now
Other Profiles: DarkSpark135
UESPoints: 5
Location: Edge of the world and all Western civilization

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Dark Spark »

There's the possibility that a resident of an Oblivion plane (or a Blessed of Sheogorath, at least) never dies from temporal means.

As I recall: Ciirta not only survived one Greymarch, she lived long enough to see the beginning of another.
Baurus: Our job is to get the Emperor out of situations like this. Though I'll admit, things aren't going exactly to plan.

Casandra: At the moment, the deadliest weapon at my disposal is a goblin's head on a stick. I'd be worried if this was the plan.
User avatar
Chaos the N'wah
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 1555
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:25 am
Status: Always lurking
Location: Tenmar Forest

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Chaos the N'wah »

I think Mortals don't age normally while in Oblivion because it's outside of Mundus and if you read about Akatosh, it took him colliding into Mundus/Nirn to make time exist/become linear. So time may not exist the same way in the Daedric Realms.
User avatar
Samaelthedestroyer
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:00 am
ES Games: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
Platform: PC, PS3
Status: Riding space unicorns

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Samaelthedestroyer »

if he is back, than i'd like to see him separated form jyggalag somehow and each becoming individual daedric princes. but the champion became sheogorath so it's hard to tell whats going to happen
The sad truth is, kids today will never know why pikachu is never inside a pokeball.
User avatar
Sloady
Warder
Warder
Posts: 589
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:50 pm
ES Games: Daggerfall, Oblivion, Shivering Isles, Skyrim
Platform: PC
Status: AFK since 2011

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Sloady »

Daedric Princes have no standard form - they choose to appear as whatever they like. That's why we don't have to worry about character clashes. So, as long as he ascended properly into his role, he/she should live forever and become the actual Daedric Prince of Madness.
I'm on a rollercoaster that only goes up
Chaos the N'wah wrote:TRAMPY!
Founding member of the Weasel Forums Universe
User avatar
Haravikk
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:59 pm
ES Games: Morrowind, Oblivion
Platform: XBox 360, PC (WINE)

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Haravikk »

dragonfett wrote:I had always thought that when the Hero of Cyrodil became the Madgod, they also ascended to immortality. How do we know for a fact that is not the case?
How do we know that it isn't? We don't know enough about what really goes on on the Daedric side of things so it's hard to say either way I suppose :)

However, I assumed that the plan was simply that instead of Jyggalag attacking unopposed as before, that the Lord Sheogorath would be there to stand in the way. I don't think being a Daedra or immortal or whatever had anything to do with it really, since all that was required was to halt Jyggalag before he could take total control of the Shivering Isles, as he'd then proceed to complete the cycle as before without opposition, and simply become Sheogorath once again.

So the question really is whether inheriting the Shivering Isles is enough to inherit some of the powers of the position of mad god. I think it more likely that all true power was lost as the Daedric spirit is still alive and well in Jyggalag, so it's more likely that the isles were ruled for a time by the new lord, and someone later had to take over.

However, stranger things have happened in the lore, and if Jyggalag were somehow split in power, then it could conceivably result in both he and a Sheogorath with powers existing simultaneously, albeit with neither having the full power of the other Daedric Princes. This may actually be convenient for everyone, since it would mean Jyggalag would be unable to threaten the other Daedric Princes like he did before, or at least not without learning some new tricks.
User avatar
Chaos the N'wah
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 1555
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:25 am
Status: Always lurking
Location: Tenmar Forest

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Chaos the N'wah »

I always saw Jyggalag as casting off the Curse that is Sheogorath by getting someone else to take his place. So if we follow this train of thought, Jyggalag is free, completely, from Sheogorath caging his power and the person who assumes the title of Sheogorath is getting their powers from the curse itself(A curse placed by multiple Daedric Princes has got to be powerful).
Coupaholic
Novice
Novice
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:14 am
ES Games: Oblivion, Morrowind (ish)
Platform: PC

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Coupaholic »

ChaosDawns wrote:I always saw Jyggalag as casting off the Curse that is Sheogorath by getting someone else to take his place. So if we follow this train of thought, Jyggalag is free, completely, from Sheogorath caging his power and the person who assumes the title of Sheogorath is getting their powers from the curse itself(A curse placed by multiple Daedric Princes has got to be powerful).
Agreed.

So another possibility is that Sheogorath no longer exists, that the curse kept the Hero going for a few years and then either through time or because the other Daedra stepped in the curse dissipated - I don't now how the other Daedra reacted to the little mortal playing princes with them, but I doubt they sent him a welcome hamper.
KneelBeforeZod
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:44 am
ES Games: Oblivion
Platform: Xbox 360
Status: The Dude abides.
Contact:

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by KneelBeforeZod »

He should be a deadly Hellwraith who's, like, searching for the ninja who killed his girlfriend long ago!
What you hear when you take Skooma.

The proud Luchador mask of the renegade Headgear Club. We don't exist.
OblivionDuruza
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 6881
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:44 am
UESPoints: 5

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by OblivionDuruza »

I think that either the curse has been lifted and removed Sheogorath in favour of Jyggalag, or the curse has not truly been lifted and still afflicts Jyggalag. I'm more inclined to think the latter though, because I doubt Bethesda will want to include the old PC in game and I also doubt they would exclude a god that still exists (especially a daedra due to the daedric quest thing they've got going).
User avatar
dragonfett
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:11 pm
ES Games: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
Platform: XBox 360, PC
Other Profiles: dragonfett2

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by dragonfett »

I honestly doubt that Bethesda would completely get rid Shegorath as he seems to be one of the more favorite ones, but I don't think they would get rid of Jyggalag now that he's come back without some sort of explanation (and a darn good one too!).
Under the Pain of Death
I Stand Alone
Against an Army of Darkness
And Horrors Unknown
User avatar
Sloady
Warder
Warder
Posts: 589
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:50 pm
ES Games: Daggerfall, Oblivion, Shivering Isles, Skyrim
Platform: PC
Status: AFK since 2011

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Sloady »

A Daedric Prince cannot be simply gotten rid of. Not only are the immortal, but they are a force that influences the mortal world - and so long as we still have those who are mad, insane, crazy or just plain weird, the Daedric Prince of Cheese, Lettuce and Yarn will live on.
I'm on a rollercoaster that only goes up
Chaos the N'wah wrote:TRAMPY!
Founding member of the Weasel Forums Universe
User avatar
Haravikk
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:59 pm
ES Games: Morrowind, Oblivion
Platform: XBox 360, PC (WINE)

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Haravikk »

TheNightFather wrote:A Daedric Prince cannot be simply gotten rid of. Not only are the immortal, but they are a force that influences the mortal world - and so long as we still have those who are mad, insane, crazy or just plain weird, the Daedric Prince of Cheese, Lettuce and Yarn will live on.
But he hasn't been "gotten rid of", he was always Jyggalag and simply cursed to be the mad-god :)

It would be fun if he hasn't completely broken the curse, and actually exists as two distinct princes with only half the strength, so he'd have the ultimate multiple personality disorder as he'd literally be two people at once. Or the new Sheogorath could actually have been cursed themselves to eventually become the Sheogorath we all know and love, i.e - instead of breaking the curse they've simply inherited it from Jyggalag who is now free while the champion of Cyrodiil ceases to be who they once were, only regaining knowledge of who they were once every thousand years…
OblivionDuruza
Grand Master
Grand Master
Posts: 6881
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:44 am
UESPoints: 5

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by OblivionDuruza »

@Haravikk: I like both ideas. The second could be used to explain why the Champion of Cyrodiil etc. hasn't died. However, I am inclined to believe that, due to the fact the PC may also become the Grey Fox and in doing so have their name erased from history, Bethesda is fairly safe without explaining this to us in great depth.
TheNightFather wrote:A Daedric Prince cannot be simply gotten rid of. Not only are the immortal, but they are a force that influences the mortal world - and so long as we still have those who are mad, insane, crazy or just plain weird, the Daedric Prince of Cheese, Lettuce and Yarn will live on.
Might I remind you that Sheogorath isn't really a prince, rather a cursed prince who is now supposedly (I don't believe it though as Sheo. is such a classic TES character) free of the curse.
Gandalf
Journeyman
Journeyman
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 7:48 pm
UESPoints: 1

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Gandalf »

If you've never played S.I, (I have so this is just a theory) then Sheogorath would still be reigning, wouldn't he?
One does not equal three.
Two does not equal three.
By induction,
Three does not equal three.
-unknown Redditor.
User avatar
Haravikk
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:59 pm
ES Games: Morrowind, Oblivion
Platform: XBox 360, PC (WINE)

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Haravikk »

OblivionDuruza wrote:@Haravikk: I like both ideas. The second could be used to explain why the Champion of Cyrodiil etc. hasn't died. However, I am inclined to believe that, due to the fact the PC may also become the Grey Fox and in doing so have their name erased from history, Bethesda is fairly safe without explaining this to us in great depth.
But isn't the curse of the Grey Fox lifted by the Elder Scroll? The Champion of Cyrodiil could probably tell people their name if they wanted, but simply lacks the option to, and the AI has always been a bit thick anyway so taking the cowl off isn't enough.
I dunno, in any event they wouldn't really need to explain the champion of Cyrodiil erased idea for Sheogorath, as the thousand year cycle is 800 years off in Skyrim, so some snippets alluding to who the "overwritten" Sheogorath once was could be enough to cover it. For example a diary in which the mad god makes mention of things that the champion of Cyrodiil would have done, not in enough detail that your past character has to be imported or anything, but enough to give you a clue that this is what may have happened.
The Troll Hunter wrote:If you've never played S.I, (I have so this is just a theory) then Sheogorath would still be reigning, wouldn't he?
Jayred Ice-Veins (the bone guy) would likely have made it out of the Fringe eventually without your help, so he could have become the new Sheogorath instead, heh.

But since Oblivion never really ends, there's nothing to say the champion (outside of your control) didn't eventually make it to the Shivering Isles and complete the quests there in the 200 years between Oblivion and Skyrim. So I think that the champion of Cyrodiil completing the Shivering Isles is guaranteed enough to be canon.
Gandalf
Journeyman
Journeyman
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 7:48 pm
UESPoints: 1

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Gandalf »

Haravikk wrote:
The Troll Hunter wrote:If you've never played S.I, (I have so this is just a theory) then Sheogorath would still be reigning, wouldn't he?
Jayred Ice-Veins (the bone guy) would likely have made it out of the Fringe eventually without your help, so he could have become the new Sheogorath instead, heh.

But since Oblivion never really ends, there's nothing to say the champion (outside of your control) didn't eventually make it to the Shivering Isles and complete the quests there in the 200 years between Oblivion and Skyrim. So I think that the champion of Cyrodiil completing the Shivering Isles is guaranteed enough to be canon.
Ummm.... Jayred makes it out of the isles? I just walked up to the gatekeeper and killed him without help. (I have 100% chameleon armour. STEALTH ATTACKS!!!!!!)
One does not equal three.
Two does not equal three.
By induction,
Three does not equal three.
-unknown Redditor.
User avatar
Haravikk
Apprentice
Apprentice
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:59 pm
ES Games: Morrowind, Oblivion
Platform: XBox 360, PC (WINE)

Re: Sheogorath?...

Post by Haravikk »

The Troll Hunter wrote:Ummm.... Jayred makes it out of the isles? I just walked up to the gatekeeper and killed him without help. (I have 100% chameleon armour. STEALTH ATTACKS!!!!!!)
I was responding to your comment about people who haven't played the Shivering Isles campaign, stealth attacking the gatekeeper doesn't really fall into that category…
Post Reply