Would guns in Skyrim really be that bad?

[MARS]

I'm not taking this as an attack don't worry As for the topic: I already said everything I had to say in other posts and I said that I wouldn't be posting in this thread anymore. So I'll just stop now.

[NitrusReigns]

I'm not taking this as an attack don't worry As for the topic: I already said everything I had to say in other posts and I said that I wouldn't be posting in this thread anymore. So I'll just stop now.

Super, well thanks for the discussion. I've got to get off now anyway, so we'll let the conversation move on. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me

[D0VAHK11N]

The issue is that with this logic, guns never would have been invented. The fact of the matter is that even inaccurate (which is a very relative term) muskets are more damaging than bows.

Yes, I see what you are saying that by that logic guns should not exist but in our universe where guns do exist magic does not. also in our world we have doctors yet in TES they don't exist simply because the ordinary folk can drink a bottle of liquid and be instantly healed.also guns have tons of moving parts which also have not yet been invented. so a lot goes into it anyway. But also like i said earlier. WHY jump straight to guns why not go for a nice middle ground that would show technological advancement in weaponry without being a gun. as of now the crossbow still has not been invented nor the catapult or trebuchet. why would the TES universe skip over those and jump straight to guns when those resemble weapons more familair to them whereas guns would be completely alien?

[Wolfie]

The issue is that with this logic, guns never would have been invented. The fact of the matter is that even inaccurate (which is a very relative term) muskets are more damaging than bows.

how so. unlike in TES there is only one race, our race is full of people who want to do it the fast way and easy way, not really wanting to be a test of skill but rather survival, which btw is very smart, we did not want close combat like almost ALL of the races in ES, muskets as they where back then WHERE not more damaging becuse you got to take in affect how long it takes to reload. sure in real life one shot dead for the gun, but also the arrow, but thats not how this game plays
so lets see here
gun shoots and dose 8 damage
takes 15 seconds to reload (this is not even close to being the real time)
bow shoot dose 2 dmange takes 2 sec's to relaod
the bow will do more dman and and kill the guy faster to top it off
the gun COST more, takes LONGER to reload, dose less damnge over time, will miss a lot
soooo why bother, unless you have a death wish?

in our world the reason we bothered was cause we are very much hunters form a distance
spears and throwing weapons where some of the first things we made
we are hunters who are fragial so we need something that can take them down form a distance

a orc is NOT fragial

we made guns cause it has a high chance of killing
in a world where its not one hit dead
what is the point

[NitrusReigns]

@Wolfie - please do not be offended by this, but I'm not going to respond to your post because your response still leaves out logic and a reasonable cost-benefit analysis. However, I will concede that I see your point about the whole "not a one hit world" thing. That at least makes some sense and is a logical explanation of the lack of benefits of guns.

@D0VAHK11N - I completely agree that there is no reason for a jump straight from bows to guns. That would make far less sense than guns never existing at all. They cannot simply come out of nowhere. The moving parts and the technology behind them needs to be developed well before any firearms would ever come about. My argument against that is that I see no reason that could not happen between games.

[MARS]

I just can't seem to stop posting here
Another point: What if the minerals for gunpowder don't exist on Nirn?

[VirtualWeasel]

I just can't seem to stop posting here
Another point: What if the minerals for gunpowder don't exist on Nirn?

And the cowboy shoots the sheriff...

[NitrusReigns]

I just can't seem to stop posting here
Another point: What if the minerals for gunpowder don't exist on Nirn?

A definite possibility, but we have certainly have no confirmation of that and I highly doubt there are no highly flammable materials (not minerals ) that exist there. Gunpowder is simply an incredibly fast burning mix of materials. Nothing super complicated.

[MARS]

Did I say minerals? Well you got the point.

[Wolfie]

@Wolfie - please do not be offended by this, but I'm not going to respond to your post because your response still leaves out logic and a reasonable cost-benefit analysis. However, I will concede that I see your point about the whole "not a one hit world" thing. That at least makes some sense and is a logical explanation of the lack of benefits of guns.

.

what logic is it leaving out?you dont see orcs using bows cause ther prefer using close combat same for the redgaurds


you guys say you want a gun to be slow to reload like it was when it was first made
it took way long the 15 seceonds to reload back then so maybe I'm being to nice on that time
but that would only increse the time making it even less powerful

rember if the dmange gets much higher then 8 and its anything like oblvion then its a one hit ko on the lowest difficulty


can you show me a reasonable cost-benefit analysis then?

[NitrusReigns]

Did I say minerals? Well you got the point.

lol certainly did...it was pretty clear what you meant. I just felt like being an @$$ and pointing out your mistake

Anyway, I think I'm done with this thread now. It was fun talking about it, but I seem to be unable to get people to understand my point (my fault I'm sure) so I'll just be done. I was never trying to convert people to my way of thinking, I just wanted a discussion, but that doesn't seem to be happening. Everyone seems to be simply trying to win an argument here or something. Anyway, done ranting now...have fun...I'll see you all in other threads

[MARS]

Did I say minerals? Well you got the point.

lol certainly did...it was pretty clear what you meant. I just felt like being an @$$ and pointing out your mistake

Hey don't feel bad. I point out mistakes all the time.

[Wolfie]

Whoa hang on there you made a point and it was a good one, you said that there is no proof that guns can not be made ,which is true
I agree. But really this is a preference, or an ophion you cant let someone see the light on this.
I don't excerpt you to agree and say "your right guns would be a bad move"but i do expect you to see where I'm coming for,
and you do, as i see yours, you want guns because you think it would be cool and add more "reallism" to the game, I disagree on the fact I don't think TES should be based on Earths advancements, or technology,
as it is it's own world with a deferent history.
also TES is a mythic game.with swords, magic, and now thankfully dragons. i don't believe you should add guns as it makes it more "down to earth" which is not what i like about TES , the mater of the fact is we both have a deferent reason for liking TES
or at least some deferences

[NitrusReigns]

Whoa hang on there you made a point and it was a good one, you said that there is no proof that guns can not be made ,which is true
I agree. But really this is a preference, or an ophion you cant let someone see the light on this.
I don't excerpt you to agree and say "your right guns would be a bad move"but i do expect you to see where I'm coming for,
and you do, as i see yours, you want guns because you think it would be cool and add more "reallism" to the game, I disagree on the fact I don't think TES should be based on Earths advancements, or technology,
as it is it's own world with a deferent history.
also TES is a mythic game.with swords, magic, and now thankfully dragons. i don't believe you should add guns as it makes it more "down to earth" which is not what i like about TES , the mater of the fact is we both have a deferent reason for liking TES
or at least some deferences

Well, Wolfie, you convinced me to come back and post once more even though I was thoroughly resolved not to do so. I have a couple of comments:
Firstly, I appologize for misreading some of what you were saying. I appreciate the acknowledgment of my thoughts and I'm sorry I ready your statements as trying to "convert" people.
Secondly, I actually fully agree with your last statement that TES world is about fantasy and that there should be no guns. I would be incredibly disappointed if they brought guns into this series! I don't want guns!
Thirdly, I appreciate your point that this is a different world with a different history from our own. I think this really is the key to not having guns, but I just don't think that it is possible to logically state that guns would never be invented simply because it is a different world. I think the best we can say is that they shouldn't be because we don't want them and that is perfectly acceptable because it is a different world and there is no necessity that they should be invented.
Anyway, thanks for the discussion and for luring me back

[KneelBeforeZod]

But also like i said earlier. WHY jump straight to guns why not go for a nice middle ground that would show technological advancement in weaponry without being a gun. as of now the crossbow still has not been invented nor the catapult or trebuchet. why would the TES universe skip over those and jump straight to guns when those resemble weapons more familair to them whereas guns would be completely alien?

Sure, let's have all of those in addition.

But none of those are guns, and guns are what I want. Like people are saying, it's a matter of preference. And I can't have a gunslinger, if there are no guns to sling. It's as simple as that.

[Da_BossMaN69]

You guys do realize the whole reason we have no "siege" weapons is because the engine can not handle a destructible environment, meaning theres no point to a siege weapon in the game. So stop using that as an argument.

And this is kinda a counter to the whole guns thing, if magic was real and represented in the game as how you guys are saying it is in your little scenarios, then guns would be very obsolete as would every other form of combat, we would be gods, until modern rifles/weaponry is invented.

Last thing, Its a single player game, no one if coming at you with a gun, If magic is soooo powerful kill him pick up the gun and sell it. Problem solved, I think melee weapons in Fallout are stupid and illogical, a guy in football gear with a machete can not charge a soldier wearing kevlar with an assualt rifle and win, yet it does anyway. I'm not going to use them, I will pick them up and sell them for caps. Problem solved, just becasue its in the game doesn't mean its forced on you. And these weapons would be very rare and hard to come by, its not like every weapon in the game is replaced.

These are muskets, once fired you switch to melee or reload(which would cause you to die), i think thats the thing mos overlooked you all think once you have a musket you stick to it, not at all, they certainly didn't do that in real life.

[Wolfie]

And this is kinda a counter to the whole guns thing, if magic was real and represented in the game as how you guys are saying it is in your little scenarios, then guns would be very obsolete as would every other form of combat, we would be gods, until modern rifles/weaponry is invented.

Well think about it magic is over powered use a parallelize spell the guy cant do anything, beter yet make your self invisible

Last thing, Its a single player game, no one if coming at you with a gun, If magic is soooo powerful kill him pick up the gun and sell it. Problem solved, I think thrown weapons are stupid, I'm not going to use them, I will pick them up and sell them for gold. Problem solved, just becasue its in the game doesn't mean its forced on you. And these weapons would be very rare and hard to come by, its not like every weapon in the game is replaced.

so would you mind if they added cars, planes, and alien ships?
no problem just dont use them

[Argonanza]

as of now the crossbow still has not been invented

It has been invented. Bethesda just didn't feel like putting them in Oblivion.

[Wolfie]

as of now the crossbow still has not been invented

It has been invented. Bethesda just didn't feel like putting them in Oblivion.

You know I've never seen the cross bow in TES 3?
I've seen the bolts never the crossbow

[KneelBeforeZod]

so would you mind if they added cars, planes, and alien ships?
no problem just dont use them

I'd use them.

Use them and laugh, and laugh and laugh.

[Wolfie]

I'd use them.

Use them and laugh, and laugh and laugh.

I'll admit the idea would be cool as a mod if i could but as for in game i dont know about that

[KneelBeforeZod]

I'd use them.

Use them and laugh, and laugh and laugh.

I'll admit the idea would be cool as a mod if i could but as for in game i dont know about that

No, it's too late. I want cars and alien ships in the vanilla game. Screw horses. Oh but don't worry, the alien ship would only fire arrows, we don't want guns, right?

[D0VAHK11N]

You guys do realize the whole reason we have no "siege" weapons is because the engine can not handle a destructible environment, meaning theres no point to a siege weapon in the game. So stop using that as an argument.

First off, I did not know that so I am sorry that I used it as an argument, but they could still have it at like one point in the game like they did with the siege crawler in oblivion.

also do you realize that on earth there was hundreds of years between the development of black powder and the first gun. I know this is nirn but still. so maybe in skyrim they invent black powder and use it for something else and then guns could come in later TES games if bethesda decides to go down that route. here you can see that black powder was invented in the 9th century and guns in the 12th which means that to make the game more "realistic", the 200 years between oblivion and skyrim would not be enough to bring about guns even if black powder was discovered during oblivion.

and here you can see that the musket was not the first gun or even rifle to be invented but the Arquebus was which was replaced by the musket.
and this was the first black bowder projectile launcher, i.e. gun. And if they put this in the game (after black powder but before flintlock pistols and rifles) then it would be a progressive step forward that most if not all of us would enjoy.

As for there being crossbows, I wouldn't know I've only played oblivion.

as for guns like muskets, AK47s, etc if you want them make a mod after the game. If you don't play oblivion on the computer then change platforms

As for making the game more "down to Earth" maybe we should try making it more "down to Nirn" lol

[JFox]

Yes they would be that bad.

[Rat Kiosk]

@Wolfie - please do not be offended by this, but I'm not going to respond to your post because your response still leaves out logic and a reasonable cost-benefit analysis. However, I will concede that I see your point about the whole "not a one hit world" thing. That at least makes some sense and is a logical explanation of the lack of benefits of guns.

.

what logic is it leaving out?you dont see orcs using bows cause ther prefer using close combat same for the redgaurds


you guys say you want a gun to be slow to reload like it was when it was first made
it took way long the 15 seceonds to reload back then so maybe I'm being to nice on that time
but that would only increse the time making it even less powerful

rember if the dmange gets much higher then 8 and its anything like oblvion then its a one hit ko on the lowest difficulty


can you show me a reasonable cost-benefit analysis then?

I agree with this to an extent. But a longbow does way more damage than an early gun. And a recurve bow does even more.