Would guns in Skyrim really be that bad?

[KneelBeforeZod]

This thread is making me very sad

Your tears please me. And when you weep unabashed at the sight of great noble heroes and mighty mages being shot through the head dead by peasants, my cackling shall be heard across oceans.

At this I laugh. Mages shot in the head...

Ha ha, yeah. Those guns that are heavily enchanted can be a real pain for spellcasters.

[MARS]

Enchanted guns eh? And how are you going to enchant your guns if you kill all the mages? Hmmm?

[KneelBeforeZod]

Enchanted guns eh? And how are you going to enchant your guns if you kill all the mages? Hmmm?

With the magic of science, of course. Quantum theory and all that, alternate dimensions, space-travel(what going to Oblivion really is), and all that.

[MARS]

Enchanted guns eh? And how are you going to enchant your guns if you kill all the mages? Hmmm?

With the magic of science, of course. Quantum theory and all that, alternate dimensions, space-travel(what going to Oblivion really is), and all that.

*sigh* I'll just stop posting here.

[Wolfie]

Enchanted guns eh? And how are you going to enchant your guns if you kill all the mages? Hmmm?

more impronatly whats to stop the mage form melting it with fire?
or go Jedi and use telekinesis to bring the gun to them then use it to pull the triger to fire at them

that will show them...
MAGES RULE!!!!

but for real

I wont say guns would ruin the game for me, it would be playable

but it would be like adding Avtar, twlight, JB, rap music, hevey metal all at once.
sure they could do it, and some would think it was awsome
but for the love of the scrolls dont do it!

[MARS]

Enchanted guns eh? And how are you going to enchant your guns if you kill all the mages? Hmmm?

more impronatly whats to stop the mage form melting it with fire?
or go Jedi and use telekinesis to bring the gun to them then use it to pull the triger to fire at them

that will show them...
MAGES RULE!!!!

but for real

I wont say guns would ruin the game for me, it would be playable

but it would be like adding Avtar, twlight, JB, rap music, hevey metal all at once.
sure they could do it, and some would think it was awsome
but for the love of the scrolls dont do it!

(: This post made me happy

[KneelBeforeZod]

Enchanted guns eh? And how are you going to enchant your guns if you kill all the mages? Hmmm?

With the magic of science, of course. Quantum theory and all that, alternate dimensions, space-travel(what going to Oblivion really is), and all that.

*sigh* I'll just stop posting here.

But you didn't stop posting. You clearly made a post.

Anyway, yeah, guns would be awesome.

But also, they probably wouldn't be a big deal to Dragons unless, again, they were heavily enchanted. I mean, unless you hit the dragon's eyeball or something, and I don't know if the game would be THAT advanced.

but it would be like adding Avtar, twlight, JB, rap music, hevey metal all at once.
sure they could do it, and some would think it was awsome
but for the love of the scrolls dont do it!

Funny you said that, I always wanted a soundtrack by Manowar for ES. Definitely works in the dungeons.

[D0VAHK11N]

I just had a thought. wouldn't it be funny if you had a small .22 revolver with an enchantment of 80pts of fire damage with a 5ft area. making it an inexpensive rocket launcher. but in all seriousness guns should not be in TES

[KneelBeforeZod]

but in all seriousness guns should not be in TES

Agreed, except for what the Dragonborn uses.

[Elune]

No guns in my ES please.

Go study the lore or something, it's not going to happen.

Now, if you wanna make gun mods and rip the countryside to shreds? Be my guest.

[Elune]

Or to be more realistic:

TES universe is heavily invested in magic.

Why would you go through the trouble of developing, testing, mass producing, selling, training etc. with guns when you could spend the money for further develpment of the magical arts?

Destruction enchanments could make a bow more potent than a gun, and before you say it could do the same with guns, guns don't exist in TES universe yet. They represent a significant investment of time and money, and further money for the magic needed to make the gun equal or better than an echanted bow.

The time and money is better spent developing magic to make it even more powerful.

[Da_BossMaN69]

Or to be more realistic:



Why would you go through the trouble of developing, testing, mass producing, selling, training etc. with guns when you could spend the money for further develpment of the magical arts?
.

Why bother with bows, swords, armor, and blunt weapons then?

[Master Z]

Or to be more realistic:



Why would you go through the trouble of developing, testing, mass producing, selling, training etc. with guns when you could spend the money for further develpment of the magical arts?
.

Why bother with bows, swords, armor, and blunt weapons then?

Because those were developed before mortals started using magic.

[Wolfie]

Or to be more realistic:



Why would you go through the trouble of developing, testing, mass producing, selling, training etc. with guns when you could spend the money for further develpment of the magical arts?
.

Why bother with bows, swords, armor, and blunt weapons then?

becuse you run out of magic and when you do its best to have a close wepon
as for bows
remember not every race used destruction for magic
like the wood elfs
the orcs prefer blunt to magic
and the regards prefer swords

so there is your awnser
NONE of them would get a gun
as both the orcs and redgaurds belive in hand to hand (or sword to sword, axe to axe)
combat

wood elfs relay on nature not technology

the only one i see that could in time is the impreals, they dont seem to have a preference (skill wise they are worriors but they are well balnced imo)
so they could POSSABLY
but it would have to be somebody
who did not have magic, did not want to use bows
and wanted to spend a billion gold pices on a piec of equpment that is weaker then anything they ahve and can only be used once in a fight

dont see it happing

[Coupaholic]

Because those were developed before mortals started using magic.

Really? I'd have thought that since everyone believes that magic is a huge and central part of Tamriel's combined heritage they would have been using it before weapons, maybe even basic tools were invented?

@Wolfe - You're reasons seem to make sense, as a new technology I would expect guns to be expensive and perhaps rather crude - but I can also see all the races looking to use them, if for no other reason then to make sure no side has an advantage.

I've seen a few gunman VS mage arguements and all of them seem to side with the mage, which I don't agree with - in the game an arrow is faster than any spell so you can easily land a hit and get out of the way of any hostile magic, since a pellet or musketball would be quicker off the mark than any arrow you could get a shot in then duck behind cover before any spell barely left the mages hands. Then of course with range, position and stealth you could get shot without even knowing of the threat.

Magic is powerful at face to face confrontations, but that's about it.

[Elune]

Because those were developed before mortals started using magic.

Really? I'd have thought that since everyone believes that magic is a huge and central part of Tamriel's combined heritage they would have been using it before weapons, maybe even basic tools were invented?

@Wolfe - You're reasons seem to make sense, as a new technology I would expect guns to be expensive and perhaps rather crude - but I can also see all the races looking to use them, if for no other reason then to make sure no side has an advantage.

I've seen a few gunman VS mage arguements and all of them seem to side with the mage, which I don't agree with - in the game an arrow is faster than any spell so you can easily land a hit and get out of the way of any hostile magic, since a pellet or musketball would be quicker off the mark than any arrow you could get a shot in then duck behind cover before any spell barely left the mages hands. Then of course with range, position and stealth you could get shot without even knowing of the threat.

Magic is powerful at face to face confrontations, but that's about it.

I'm not going to bother trying to discuss this with you.

You're completely set in the attitude that you're right and are going to any extreme to circumvent any argument, so really providing any or continuing any debate is futile when you're being unreasonable.

I'll just leave it at this: Most people don't want it, and it's not going to happen.

[D0VAHK11N]

Because those were developed before mortals started using magic.

Really? I'd have thought that since everyone believes that magic is a huge and central part of Tamriel's combined heritage they would have been using it before weapons, maybe even basic tools were invented?

@Wolfe - You're reasons seem to make sense, as a new technology I would expect guns to be expensive and perhaps rather crude - but I can also see all the races looking to use them, if for no other reason then to make sure no side has an advantage.

I've seen a few gunman VS mage arguements and all of them seem to side with the mage, which I don't agree with - in the game an arrow is faster than any spell so you can easily land a hit and get out of the way of any hostile magic, since a pellet or musketball would be quicker off the mark than any arrow you could get a shot in then duck behind cover before any spell barely left the mages hands. Then of course with range, position and stealth you could get shot without even knowing of the threat.

Magic is powerful at face to face confrontations, but that's about it.

While a gun would fire a faster projectile than a bow you must also remember that these aren't the extremely advanced modern guns we are referring to but rather early guns, which were prone to jam, misfire, extremely innacurate, and and took minutes to load and a while to take aim with so factor that into account and the scenario would most likely play out like this

Gunman fires at archer/mage
archer/mage hears muzzle blast but feels little to no pain (grazed or miss)
Archer/mage heals with spell or potion
gunman takes cover to start reload
archer would try to determine direction of shot or mage casts detect life spell
gunman still loading
archer/mage gets into striking distance
gunman still loading
archer sneaks and shoots gunman in head with his extremely accurate bow and high marksman skill
mage casts any of a numerous amount of spells that could kill gunman in a variety of ways
gunman dies
archer/mage continues on merry way

there is a reason that Native Americans killed so many colonials way back when.

[Moeboid]

If you interpret this topic as asking, "Should guns be implemented in Skyrim?" then I really can't see any argument. There are a number of obvious dangers in trying to implement something like guns in Skyrim, and since I can't see any good reason for them to do it, I can't respect anyone who thinks that they should. However, if you interpret this topic as asking, "Could guns be implemented in Skyrim?" then I think that's a very interesting question, more than worthy of discussion. In all honesty, I think it's possible. I see nothing so far that is going to fail by default. If you think about it, guns + magic + swords isn't too dissimilar from Star Wars' combat system, and that's a system where all three styles of combat have their uses. With a bit of tweaking, who's to say it couldn't be made to work? I'm open to the idea.

For those who chose to speak about whether it would or wouldn't happen, I feel like this is another pointless and entirely subjective conversation. No one, regardless of their familiarity with the Elder Scrolls series (partly because it's all made up in the first place), could possibly have enough information to accurately simulate in their minds something as complex as whether the political, social, and physical environment would ever permit or necessitate the invention of guns. If you think that you can, then you are filling in the gaps in your knowledge with what you would like the world to be - not what it is. It's not up to you, it's up to Bethesda. Just my 2c.

[NitrusReigns]

Or to be more realistic:

TES universe is heavily invested in magic.

Why would you go through the trouble of developing, testing, mass producing, selling, training etc. with guns when you could spend the money for further develpment of the magical arts?

Destruction enchanments could make a bow more potent than a gun, and before you say it could do the same with guns, guns don't exist in TES universe yet. They represent a significant investment of time and money, and further money for the magic needed to make the gun equal or better than an echanted bow.

The time and money is better spent developing magic to make it even more powerful.

This point about guns being irrelevant because of the magic in the ES universe keeps coming up and it makes absolutely no sense to me. If magic makes guns unnecessary, then why on earth would swords still be around. Think about it. The reason we don't use swords anymore is because we have guns. Guns make swords obsolete and irrelevant to combat situations. So if guns make swords obsolete and magic makes guns obsolete, then logically, swords should not exist either. If such a primitive form of combat as swords can exist alongside magic, then guns should be able to as well.

It's entirely likely that I'm wrong about this because I'm missing some crucial part of the argument here so please enlighten me if this is the case. I just don't understand the argument.

[D0VAHK11N]

Or to be more realistic:

TES universe is heavily invested in magic.

Why would you go through the trouble of developing, testing, mass producing, selling, training etc. with guns when you could spend the money for further develpment of the magical arts?

Destruction enchanments could make a bow more potent than a gun, and before you say it could do the same with guns, guns don't exist in TES universe yet. They represent a significant investment of time and money, and further money for the magic needed to make the gun equal or better than an echanted bow.

The time and money is better spent developing magic to make it even more powerful.

This point about guns being irrelevant because of the magic in the ES universe keeps coming up and it makes absolutely no sense to me. If magic makes guns unnecessary, then why on earth would swords still be around. Think about it. The reason we don't use swords anymore is because we have guns. Guns make swords obsolete and irrelevant to combat situations. So if guns make swords obsolete and magic makes guns obsolete, then logically, swords should not exist either. If such a primitive form of combat as swords can exist alongside magic, then guns should be able to as well.

It's entirely likely that I'm wrong about this because I'm missing some crucial part of the argument here so please enlighten me if this is the case. I just don't understand the argument.

I see you're arguement but think about it this way. when soldiers run out of ammunition in battle they have knives on them so that they can still fight in close quarters so think of mana as magical ammo. when it runs out the we have dagger's and sword and such. also there are those in life now who prefer and assault rifle to a sniper and a sniper to rocket launcher and a rocket laucher to authority put that in terms of TES and you get assault rifle is the close(r)-quarters people who prefer blade and blunt and hand to hand who can get up close and get in multiple shots. sniper is the archer who prefers to engage at a calculated distance. the bazooka is the mage who likes to use destruction magics & the like to do a large amount of damage to an area. the guy with authority would be mages who use frenzy and charm and conjuration to make others fight for them. so there for swords and such exist for 2 reasons one is that they act as a back-up and two is because they allow for people of different strengths to approach a situation from they're own perspective advantage points.

[MARS]

Or to be more realistic:

TES universe is heavily invested in magic.

Why would you go through the trouble of developing, testing, mass producing, selling, training etc. with guns when you could spend the money for further develpment of the magical arts?

Destruction enchanments could make a bow more potent than a gun, and before you say it could do the same with guns, guns don't exist in TES universe yet. They represent a significant investment of time and money, and further money for the magic needed to make the gun equal or better than an echanted bow.

The time and money is better spent developing magic to make it even more powerful.

This point about guns being irrelevant because of the magic in the ES universe keeps coming up and it makes absolutely no sense to me. If magic makes guns unnecessary, then why on earth would swords still be around. Think about it. The reason we don't use swords anymore is because we have guns. Guns make swords obsolete and irrelevant to combat situations. So if guns make swords obsolete and magic makes guns obsolete, then logically, swords should not exist either. If such a primitive form of combat as swords can exist alongside magic, then guns should be able to as well.

It's entirely likely that I'm wrong about this because I'm missing some crucial part of the argument here so please enlighten me if this is the case. I just don't understand the argument.

Because not everyone wants to be a mage.

[NitrusReigns]

I see your point and I understand the analogies, but I think you still contradict yourself within your own post. When people run out of bullets, then they use melee weapons as a backup (in fact, when they run out, they usually either run or die or both). The melee is a backup for the firearms. It would follow logically that with magic, the firearms would be the backup for the magic and the melee would be the backup for the firearms. I fully understand people not wanting them in the games, but I think it is illogical to claim that they are irrelevant to the method of fighting used.

To come back a bit to other points made earlier, people have been saying that an enchanted bow could be more powerful than a gun anyway. I would counter that by saying that an enchanted gun would be better than both. How would an enchanted gun not beat an enchanted bow in every single encounter?

[MARS]

I see your point and I understand the analogies, but I think you still contradict yourself within your own post. When people run out of bullets, then they use melee weapons as a backup (in fact, when they run out, they usually either run or die or both). The melee is a backup for the firearms. It would follow logically that with magic, the firearms would be the backup for the magic and the melee would be the backup for the firearms. I fully understand people not wanting them in the games, but I think it is illogical to claim that they are irrelevant to the method of fighting used.

To come back a bit to other points made earlier, people have been saying that an enchanted bow could be more powerful than a gun anyway. I would counter that by saying that an enchanted gun would be better than both. How would an enchanted gun not beat an enchanted bow in every single encounter?

Which brings us back to the point that no one with the intelligence to do so would bother making guns. Guns aren't something Tamriel needs. Have you seen siege weapons? Catapults? Nope. Nothing. They don't make these sort of weapons there.

[D0VAHK11N]

I see your point and I understand the analogies, but I think you still contradict yourself within your own post. When people run out of bullets, then they use melee weapons as a backup (in fact, when they run out, they usually either run or die or both). The melee is a backup for the firearms. It would follow logically that with magic, the firearms would be the backup for the magic and the melee would be the backup for the firearms. I fully understand people not wanting them in the games, but I think it is illogical to claim that they are irrelevant to the method of fighting used.

To come back a bit to other points made earlier, people have been saying that an enchanted bow could be more powerful than a gun anyway. I would counter that by saying that an enchanted gun would be better than both. How would an enchanted gun not beat an enchanted bow in every single encounter?

Again let me point you back to my earlier point where these are not the modern day rifles we are talking about but muskets which were prone to misfire and jam and weren't very accurate and took FOREVER to load. whether the gun is enchanted or not is irrelevant if you miss your first shot and then take a substansial amount of time to laod whereas a bow can be loaded in seconds and a melee weapon does not need reloading at all.

[NitrusReigns]

Mars, please don't take this as a personal attack because I don't mean it that way at all, but I think you are simply not seeing the logic that I'm arguing. You are making an argument based on past trends which are undeniably there. There are no guns or seige weapons or anything else in the ES universe so far. However, the fact that they haven't existed yet does not logically mean that they would not be of value if they did exist. What you are saying is essentially the same as saying that guns would not have been useful to the roman empire simply because they hadn't yet come into existence. It's illogical!

Again, please don't take this as an attack. I generally like your input into conversations and I am simply trying to understand the thought process behind the claims.

Again let me point you back to my earlier point where these are not the modern day rifles we are talking about but muskets which were prone to misfire and jam and weren't very accurate and took FOREVER to load. whether the gun is enchanted or not is irrelevant if you miss your first shot and then take a substansial amount of time to laod whereas a bow can be loaded in seconds and a melee weapon does not need reloading at all.

The issue is that with this logic, guns never would have been invented. The fact of the matter is that even inaccurate (which is a very relative term) muskets are more damaging than bows. Incidentally, have you ever shot any early firearms? I'm guessing probably not?