Hip-Hop

[The_Ghost]

Also,

Donuts

[KalleFlaxx]

Speaking of nothing, am I the only one here who listens to Tonedeff?

[DorostheConqueror]

Here's a few classic trip hop tracks just for the hell of it:
Chill Portishead
Upbeat Portishead
Groovin' Morcheeba (with monster guitar solo)
Happy Morcheeba
Orgasmic Sneaker Pimps
DJ Shadow, hip hop legend and trip-hop pioneer
Herbalizer, indie hip/trip hop act
Hungry Lucy, gothy trip-hop for Evanescence fans (Bed of Flames is my personal favorite track by them, but, eh, the only video I can find is a bit [&@%!].)
I should probably include Tricky, but I don't fancy him much. If those don't get you, then you'll never like Trip Hop!

Biggie I never really liked. I grew up on the East Coast, and I guess I got sick of hearing all the ten year old hip hop fans I grew up with putzing around talking about how we had to "give mad respect to Biggie", like he was the patron saint of East Coast rap and loyalty to Him was a prerequisite for living in a midscale suburb on the Atlantic seaboard. I'd rather listen to him than many more recent rap bands, but there's too much baggage for me! As for Wu, I think you're right about them being "rugged", and that's exactly why I never really liked them. Most of the rap I could listen to was, not necessarily "slick" and "polished", but more clean. More sing-songy, like Warren G or Bone Thugs. Wu to me just sounded too sloppy, too lazy. I also think they were too damn BIG; there's so many of them, and it felt like 90% of the members were just there as window dressing, sort of like how Slipknot had three drummers but only one of them actually did anything. I do think they've got some good musicians, especially the RZA (I LOVED his work on Kill Bill's soundtrack), and at least some of them have clearly got good taste and creative talent (again, I can not stress enough how much I appreciate their work on restoring and distributing classic Hong Kong cinema gems; what can I say, I'm a kungfufag at heart!) but the Clan? Nah. I won't [&@%!] with them, cuz you know they ain't nothing to [&@%!] with, but they're not going on my ipod.

Speaking of Slipknot, what's the consensus on numetal, or raprock in general? Frankly, I hate the stuff, and I'm so, sooooo glad emo killed the genre faster than grunge killed hair metal. I was the kid who used to try drowning out Limp Bizkit albums with obscure Scandinavian metal. That said, I have to give credit where it's due; hed(pe) was a pretty good band, and shockingly, Linkin Park isn't bad either. They're pretty whiney, yes, but I'll take them over Slipknot any day.

-edit- HOLY CRAP ON A CLANNFEAR I have NEVER heard this track before but that just made my whole holiday season!!! Sneaker Pimps with an acoustic Prodigy cover!!!

[Veck]

Raprock hasn't struck the right chord with me yet. I can just about put up with Rage Against The Machine, but any further is just horrible, particularly all that emo crap. I can see the genre having some potential though, maybe if a new sub genre is adopted for it.

On a completely unrelated note, any self-respecting Hip Hop fan should be sure to have this album in their collection. The singles are very well known, but pretty much every track on there is genius. I picture Post Hip Hop sounding like this.

[Odessus Naito]

I still haven't heard evidence to suggest DJ Shadow as a hip-hop DJ. Excellent he is, I must be hearing only new stuff.

[DorostheConqueror]

I still haven't heard evidence to suggest DJ Shadow as a hip-hop DJ. Excellent he is, I must be hearing only new stuff.

He's not "hip-hop" hip-hop, per say. He's one of those weird blokes who never really pins down to one genre; the hip hop influences are unmistakable (especially on his earlier stuff and crossover work with guys like Doc Oct) but admittedly, that's kind of like saying there's unmistakable metal influences on Metallica's albums! Like I said earlier, I'm not really sold on the idea of trip hop even BEING part of hip hop in the first place, so there ya go!

[Odessus Naito]

Well, hopefully I won't get reported for saying this but, I don't consider trip-hop to be a real genre, same with a lot of others.

I'm NOT calling anyone stupid if they do enjoy that kind of music.

[DorostheConqueror]

Just for curiosity's sake, in what way? What constitutes a "real" genre? It's undoubtedly a term that has a concrete descriptive force; when someone says "This is a trip-hop track", you know what to expect. It has historical relevance, and it's a term accepted by both the industry and the groups associated with it.

I'm guessing you mean that "trip hop" is a faux genre, in much the same way that, say, "castle metal" or "the Terre Haute sound" are bogus genres. Or you mean that there aren't enough distinct artists to really classify it as a full genre of it's own. Or you maybe you just mean you don't like it, I dunno. Explain!

[Odessus Naito]

Just for curiosity's sake, in what way? What constitutes a "real" genre? It's undoubtedly a term that has a concrete descriptive force; when someone says "This is a trip-hop track", you know what to expect. It has historical relevance, and it's a term accepted by both the industry and the groups associated with it.

I'm guessing you mean that "trip hop" is a faux genre, in much the same way that, say, "castle metal" or "the Terre Haute sound" are bogus genres. Or you mean that there aren't enough distinct artists to really classify it as a full genre of it's own. Or you maybe you just mean you don't like it, I dunno. Explain!

What I mean by that is a genre that a group of people have essentially named to their own liking, and not official by the industry and/or the artist OR a genre that is still in its infancy (defined as less than 10 years old, had little impact on the industry and society, or is so fresh of an experiment that there's no consensus on the title). Also, I would say that a 'non-genre' as I will coin (henceforth different than a faux genre) as something that is basically a fad, nothing more than something short that will either amalgamate into an existing genre, be adapted too much to be recognisable or be abandoned altogether (diehard composers would then be making merely 'alternative' or more appropriately indie music)

When you look at Rock, you see a genre that was crafted from several decades of existing genres (R&B, Bluegrass and the like) being perverted by something new and extravogent (in this case, media/commercialism, electric guitars and the white middle class teenager [no racism intended]) of which Rock n' Roll spawned many offspring which came quickly and aggressively, Punk and Heavy Metal coming something like 15 years at most after Rock became a commercial success. Then you have something like Trip Hop, which, supposedly, is the lovechild of trance and hip-hop (or something similar) which I'm not doubting could become successful, but I really don't see it becoming massively popular, mainly due to the fact that most artists, especially the heavily commercialised ones, aren't willing to 'test the waters' so-to-speak with this style of music. Now, I do enjoy what I've found to be Trip-Hop, so I'm not bashing it in the slightest; however I can only see Trip-Hop growing as most Rock has - in the basements of teenagers. Really, I can only see this taking off if the new decade's youth takes this ball and runs with it - and us as the older generation not relying on the industry veterans to try and make this evolve.

There are many other genres that I believe have already failed to even be able to evolve, many forms of metal and techno (such as Chain Metal, Speed Metal, Metalcore, Deathcore, Hardstyle, Jumpstyle, Speedcore etc) in which there's far too little variation and originality to be named it's own genre - again I'm not bashing it, I've heard many examples and enjoy it, but simply see it as no different than it's parent genre.

Really, I can pretty much pin every established and solid-but-young genre in the following list:

• Rhythm and Blues
• Jazz
• Reggae
• Rap / Hip-Hop
• Techno
• Rock n' Roll
• Metal (So evolved it is no longer a sub-genre of Rock)
• Symphony / Orchestral / Classical
• Opera / Vocal
• Country
• Pop (which is an abbreviation of Popular music; anything like Pop Rock etc goes here - artists like Lady Gaga are an example)
• Indie

Those are the main (or 'parent') genres that currently exist and that I consider real genres.
ANYTHING you don't see here, is essentially a sub-genre (or 'child') of one or more from the above list. Dub, Trance, DnB, Synth, Electronica etc all go under Techno. Heavy Metal, Death Metal etc go under Metal. Alternative Rock, Old Rock (aka Classic Rock) Soft Rock, Hard Rock etc go under Rock n' Roll and most others don't have many child genres.

Now, I do have some credibility to saying all this. I've been composing and playing music for over a decade and have had deep ties within the Techno and Blues industries, I've been trained by industry leaders at this institute and have met and performed with many popular artists such as DHT, DJ Mystic, Dreamnation, Scooter and much more; I work closely with my mother, who owns a production company within the Blues society all throughout Ontario, where I've met and regularly hand out with stars like MonkeyJunk, Fat Tony, Downchild, Danny Marks and much more.

In summation: There may be fresh artists willing to raise a whole new listening experience and I graciously welcome all attempts. However 'tis be an arduous process of which I think is exemplified by today's society, wrought with economical downturns and an audience unwilling to deviate from what they know and like and record companies uninterested in prospecting when they already make money on something which is compounded by the economy's harshness Trip-Hop, be it an expanding, great new experience or simply a passing fad, all music has to start somewhere, and all music has to end somewhere but not all of it makes the cut.

Cheers,
Ody

[Veck]

Trop Hop originated in Bristol in the early 90s, pioneered by guys like Massive Attack and Tricky. The term was actually coined by the media at the time, and Diddy Man of Massive Attack actually said that he hated the name, as he preferred it when the style was unique to them and didn't have a name. So, Trip Hop was given the name by the industry, and also has a unuque style not heard in ither music. Sorry to keep talking about this in the Hip Hop thread by the way, I'll stop now.

[The_Ghost]

Raprock hasn't struck the right chord with me yet. I can just about put up with Rage Against The Machine, but any further is just horrible, particularly all that emo crap. I can see the genre having some potential though, maybe if a new sub genre is adopted for it.

On a completely unrelated note, any self-respecting Hip Hop fan should be sure to have this album in their collection. The singles are very well known, but pretty much every track on there is genius. I picture Post Hip Hop sounding like this.

The Love Below! ATLiens! I cant say how much I agree! Outkast is hands down one of my favorite and IMO, one of the BEST hip hop groups of all time. Big Boi's recent album "Sir Lucious Left Foot" is worth a listen!

[Veck]

Big Boi has a new album? I seriously need to start following other genres.

[Odessus Naito]

I'm curious to know if anyone thinks that rap groups (such as NWA, Wu-Tang) are proven any better than solo artists.

Without a doubt more people generally means a better product, after all that's the idea of a collaboration. But sometimes I feel as if the artist is better on their own.

[leroybrown]

Raprock hasn't struck the right chord with me yet. I can just about put up with Rage Against The Machine, but any further is just horrible, particularly all that emo crap. I can see the genre having some potential though, maybe if a new sub genre is adopted for it.

On a completely unrelated note, any self-respecting Hip Hop fan should be sure to have this album in their collection. The singles are very well known, but pretty much every track on there is genius. I picture Post Hip Hop sounding like this.

All these perspectives are interesting.

Rage is one of my favorite bands of all times. Now, I like Outkast, but I don't really like this album. There's like three songs on it out of two cds that I like.

Still, it's all opinionated. No rights or wrongs. I would never argue who is right or wrong for liking a particular artist or genre. It's like judging someone cause they like the color blue or red. And THAT, is stupid.

[Odessus Naito]

Raprock hasn't struck the right chord with me yet. I can just about put up with Rage Against The Machine, but any further is just horrible, particularly all that emo crap. I can see the genre having some potential though, maybe if a new sub genre is adopted for it.

On a completely unrelated note, any self-respecting Hip Hop fan should be sure to have this album in their collection. The singles are very well known, but pretty much every track on there is genius. I picture Post Hip Hop sounding like this.

All these perspectives are interesting.

Rage is one of my favorite bands of all times. Now, I like Outkast, but I don't really like this album. There's like three songs on it out of two cds that I like.

Still, it's all opinionated. No rights or wrongs. I would never argue who is right or wrong for liking a particular artist or genre. It's like judging someone cause they like the color blue or red. And THAT, is stupid.

There really isn't any right or wrong in music, unless you claim to be one genre and totally fail to compose anything resembling that.

[DorostheConqueror]

Spoiler:

Just for curiosity's sake, in what way? What constitutes a "real" genre? It's undoubtedly a term that has a concrete descriptive force; when someone says "This is a trip-hop track", you know what to expect. It has historical relevance, and it's a term accepted by both the industry and the groups associated with it.

I'm guessing you mean that "trip hop" is a faux genre, in much the same way that, say, "castle metal" or "the Terre Haute sound" are bogus genres. Or you mean that there aren't enough distinct artists to really classify it as a full genre of it's own. Or you maybe you just mean you don't like it, I dunno. Explain!

What I mean by that is a genre that a group of people have essentially named to their own liking, and not official by the industry and/or the artist OR a genre that is still in its infancy (defined as less than 10 years old, had little impact on the industry and society, or is so fresh of an experiment that there's no consensus on the title). Also, I would say that a 'non-genre' as I will coin (henceforth different than a faux genre) as something that is basically a fad, nothing more than something short that will either amalgamate into an existing genre, be adapted too much to be recognisable or be abandoned altogether (diehard composers would then be making merely 'alternative' or more appropriately indie music)

When you look at Rock, you see a genre that was crafted from several decades of existing genres (R&B, Bluegrass and the like) being perverted by something new and extravogent (in this case, media/commercialism, electric guitars and the white middle class teenager [no racism intended]) of which Rock n' Roll spawned many offspring which came quickly and aggressively, Punk and Heavy Metal coming something like 15 years at most after Rock became a commercial success. Then you have something like Trip Hop, which, supposedly, is the lovechild of trance and hip-hop (or something similar) which I'm not doubting could become successful, but I really don't see it becoming massively popular, mainly due to the fact that most artists, especially the heavily commercialised ones, aren't willing to 'test the waters' so-to-speak with this style of music. Now, I do enjoy what I've found to be Trip-Hop, so I'm not bashing it in the slightest; however I can only see Trip-Hop growing as most Rock has - in the basements of teenagers. Really, I can only see this taking off if the new decade's youth takes this ball and runs with it - and us as the older generation not relying on the industry veterans to try and make this evolve.

There are many other genres that I believe have already failed to even be able to evolve, many forms of metal and techno (such as Chain Metal, Speed Metal, Metalcore, Deathcore, Hardstyle, Jumpstyle, Speedcore etc) in which there's far too little variation and originality to be named it's own genre - again I'm not bashing it, I've heard many examples and enjoy it, but simply see it as no different than it's parent genre.

Really, I can pretty much pin every established and solid-but-young genre in the following list:

• Rhythm and Blues
• Jazz
• Reggae
• Rap / Hip-Hop
• Techno
• Rock n' Roll
• Metal (So evolved it is no longer a sub-genre of Rock)
• Symphony / Orchestral / Classical
• Opera / Vocal
• Country
• Pop (which is an abbreviation of Popular music; anything like Pop Rock etc goes here - artists like Lady Gaga are an example)
• Indie

Those are the main (or 'parent') genres that currently exist and that I consider real genres.
ANYTHING you don't see here, is essentially a sub-genre (or 'child') of one or more from the above list. Dub, Trance, DnB, Synth, Electronica etc all go under Techno. Heavy Metal, Death Metal etc go under Metal. Alternative Rock, Old Rock (aka Classic Rock) Soft Rock, Hard Rock etc go under Rock n' Roll and most others don't have many child genres.

Now, I do have some credibility to saying all this. I've been composing and playing music for over a decade and have had deep ties within the Techno and Blues industries, I've been trained by industry leaders at this institute and have met and performed with many popular artists such as DHT, DJ Mystic, Dreamnation, Scooter and much more; I work closely with my mother, who owns a production company within the Blues society all throughout Ontario, where I've met and regularly hand out with stars like MonkeyJunk, Fat Tony, Downchild, Danny Marks and much more.

In summation: There may be fresh artists willing to raise a whole new listening experience and I graciously welcome all attempts. However 'tis be an arduous process of which I think is exemplified by today's society, wrought with economical downturns and an audience unwilling to deviate from what they know and like and record companies uninterested in prospecting when they already make money on something which is compounded by the economy's harshness Trip-Hop, be it an expanding, great new experience or simply a passing fad, all music has to start somewhere, and all music has to end somewhere but not all of it makes the cut.

Cheers,
Ody

That still doesn't explain why Trip Hop "isn't" a genre. It seems as if your sole argument is based on nothing more than semantic hairsplitting: there are "genres" of music, and then there are "subgenres" of music! Well, obviously. Most people would say that subgenres, like Trip-Hop, for example, or Death Metal, are still genres of music, regardless of what arbitrary system of hierarchical terminology any given person might choose to use to classify musical forms. Not accepting this is pointless, in that it tells us nothing at all about the nature or merits of Trip-Hop in relation to other genres (or "sub-genres", if you prefer)... stating that a genre of music is "fake" only holds significant meaning if we accept that most comparable genres of music are "real", which is clearly not the case. Worse still, it forces us to make all sorts of other absurd declarations, like "rockabilly isn't a real genre" and "polka isn't a real genre", as they're subgenres, too!

In fact, I'd go so far as to say your list of genres is far too broad. When we get right down to it, there are really only TWO genres of music: classical and popular. Possibly a third in jazz. "Classical" music is that created more or less for art's sake. Whether created for the sake of tradition or theory, it's goals are "loftier" than mere enjoyment and, while classical music is (and always has been) marketable to upper and upper-middle class audiences, it is never intended nor even expected to achieve widespread commercial success. Everything else is pop. Rock, techno, hip hop, polka, it's mass music for mass consumption, made by and for the proletariat and petty bourgeois. It's meant to make cash, it's meant to get attention, it's meant to give nineteen year old musicians a way to kill time and pick up girls; most of all, it's meant to be fun. Historically speaking, these are really the only two genres of music that have EVER existed, and it's been only recently that technology has allowed popular music to disseminate and branch off from it's regional, folksy roots and into all the hundreds and thousands of subgenres and subsubgenres we hear today. As such, it's perfectly reasonable, and perhaps necessary to say, that "rock music" and "hip hop music" are both subgenres of pop... and since neither is the highest set in it's respective taxonomic tree, by your reasoning, both are therefore fake genres. I'm sure this will come as some shock to Sir Paul McCartney and Dr Dre, but what can you do?

[The Tourist]

Awesome, Doros didn't join the circus in Estonia and get horribly disfigured. . .

I haven't read further than the last post, but if the topic has wandered towards genres and wotnot, here's my 2 euros worth...

Ye Olde Times: Mr Painter had a palette of 3 colours. He painted in bold, clearly defined colours.
Ye Current Times: Mrs Painter's palette is mixed, blended, and wonderfully varied. Many onlookers scratched their heads and were heard to say "Hmm, I'm not sure about these colours! That isn't a red anymore! It's a kind of---- pinky blue green, with a subtle hint of off-white mandarin!", and "Bah! It wasn't like this in my day! What's wrong with Red, Green and Blue?!".

Meaning: music has compartmentalised - many colours and subtle blends frequently confound those looking for easy, broad definitions and classifications (I'd argue that music is finally beginning to walk, after seemingly aeons of crawling).

As for hip-hop and wot-not? Hoodie Allen would be closer to 'pop-hop', but he's toe tappingly great to listen to. Not sure if he has an LP out yet, but I'll definitely be acquiring it when it's released.

[The_Ghost]

"got one in the front, and two in the back...and everybody screamin Odd Future is back"

[HatofMadness]

"Yo... Wolf Gang, we aint barkin nah"

[Sonixboom]

how did i miss this thread for 7 pages. I love hip hop/rap

gotta love a white guy from detriot who can destroy any and all rhymes he makes

-Sonix

[lockycharms]

Favorite rappers/groups
Rakim
Wu Tang
Diabolic
RA The Rugged Man
Tupac
Biggie
Edit: Not sure how I forgot about Gang Starr and Big L

Also see sig.

[KalleFlaxx]

Tupac
Biggie

That's the spirit!

[HatofMadness]

RA The Rugged Man

wow i really like RA the rugged man too. Thats awesome someone has mentioned him

[KalleFlaxx]

Hey, Hat, why don't you post your lyrics in this thread? It fits the topic, right?

[HatofMadness]

I supose i could.