Borderlands (v2)

[Kestral]

I played the game, and damn it was awesome. I finished it this Friday and thought "Man, what an awesome last boss. A huge [&@%!] with tentacles"

I killed the last boss and experienced the worst ending ever, with the worst rewards ever. [&@%!] money to use on the bullets I just wasted.

You haven't even seen the last boss yet.

You. Will. Die.

[The Raven]

I havent DLC, dear kes. I can only fight giant vagina dentata monsters.

[Josjie]

Good to see you, Josjie! Thought you had left us completely. I was even making arguments to defend Half-Life for you in a thread or two. (I think it was Half-Life. Something I know you like, anyway.)

Good to see that you're still here as well! I'm still quite busy with other stuff (sports, school) but I'll visit UESP a few times a week from now on!

How long did it take for them to put that patch out? I actually kept track of what was going on in the game for a couple months past Knoxx, but without that patch, there was just no incentive for me to play unless I wanted to re-run a completely new character. (And why 69? Did they want Claptrap's to be able to go up 11 levels to 80, or something? Or are they just immature?)

They released it, 2-3 weeks after Claptrap I think. I haven't played Borderlands for a while but I'll start a new character soon.
And erm, 69.... that's an inside joke You probably know what 69 stands for (Vivic, an explanation please? ).

As for Lilith being powerful or not, well, it depends on how much you gear for a particular set-up. My friend's Mordecai was very powerful, but died from a stiff breeze. If he respecced for better survivability, which is NOT saying much for Mordecai, then his damage was nothing special. However, a mercenary Lilith with a good double anarchy can put up some serious numbers, and I've seen some people do solid things with the elemental boost mods. (Well, fire and acid, anyway.) I still like my Catalyst mod as it offers maximum safety and I can readily take down shields with a good Shock phase blast pretty much at will, but that's just my style. Maybe I haven't met a good player from another class, since I haven't done much online, and even then almost exclusively with my friends, but would you really say that Brick and Roland can outpace a good Lilith?

Lilith with an Anarchy is indeed very powerful and easy to use. There are even builds where your Phasewalk ability recharges in only a few seconds.
You go from enemy to enemy and kill them up close, aim for the head if you can.

However, Mordecai wins with damage-per-hit. With a good build and a powerful sniper rifle or revolver he can do the most damage with a single shot. He's still a glass cannon and his survivability is low, but that's why you should bring teammates with you. Lilith, Roland and Brick are all excellent tanks.

As for damage-per-second, Brick and Roland are more powerful than Lilith but they're more difficult to use. A Blaster Brick build with rocket launchers does insane amounts of DPS and doesn't have to get close to his enemies. Online tournaments have proven that Brick usually wins (Mad Moxxi arena, time spent to kill all the enemies).
For Roland, I like to use a Shock Trooper class mod, with +4 Grenadier. Max out Grenadier and you'll have 9/5 Grenadier. You can put some points in Supply Drop as well.
Now get a good Shock Bouncing Betty mod, a shotgun with a shock elemental effect, and you're done. Spam grenades everywhere and finish them off with your shotgun. You'll tear shields apart in a matter of seconds and your only weakness are enemies who are resistant to shock, but you can always bring a back-up weapon with you for that (an incendiary shotgun). Another option for Roland is to get an anarchy and raise Metal Storm to 9/5 (with a class mod).
I think Roland and Brick are better than Lilith with an Anarchy, in terms of DPS. Lilith has more survivability than Roland/Mordecai though.

[azuarc]

He's notorious for peppering his books with allusions and obscure references, in much the same way that Borderlands does, although Borderlands focuses on nerdy pop-culture subjects.

I would hardly say your guy is the only one who does that. Clearly you've never played *ANY* game made by Sierra, especially the Space Quest series. (Not that Quest for Glory or Leisure Suit Larry are much better.) Maybe the jokes made are slightly edgier than simply having Vader fighting Kenobi go by in the background, but I didn't think they were forced. Intended, clearly, but not overly forced to the point of balking at them, anyway.

Part of the problem is the setup; Borderlands isn't an epic space opera, but it pretends to be at the start and promising but failing to deliver is worse than not trying in the first place. If, for example, you never intend to explain why everybody keeps going insane due to prolonged exposure to the planet's surface, then just forget about that plot point and don't mention it.

As far as I'm aware, only Patricia Tannis goes insane from being on Pandora, and that's just a personal psychosis. There are some distinctly deranged people on the planet, but that's a matter of nature and nurture, not being on that planet. Tannis's increasing levels of dementia are part of what make her a fun character to listen to. The game was clearly inspired by World of Warcraft in terms of the quest design. If you have a problem with the way they arranged the quest log and the missions, I would advise staying far away from WoW.

I played the game, and damn it was awesome. I finished it this Friday and thought "Man, what an awesome last boss. A huge [&@%!] with tentacles"

You actually liked the Destroyer? I thought it was horrible cliche. Oh. No. A tentacle monster. With one central eye as a weak point. I'm *SO* scared of this highly original boss....but clearly they wanted something that any of the four characters could fight successfully, whereas some of the encounters are very difficult for some characters and not for others. (Krom can be easily picked off by Mordecai before even going near the gauntlet, for example.) The fight's also incredibly easy once you've fought it once and realize what's going on. The poor destroyer rarely even gets to attack me with anything because I just shoot his tentacles off.

Lilith with an Anarchy is indeed very powerful and easy to use. There are even builds where your Phasewalk ability recharges in only a few seconds.

The latter would be my preference. I've fooled with a bunch of different things on Lilith, but I just have a hard time playing other classes. Yes, a gunslinger Mordecai is pretty ridiculous if he can survive off his second winds, and I'm aware of Brick's PvP prowess, but I hate launchers and I don't like the vulnerability Mordecai presents. I don't deny that Lilith is an easy character to play compared to, say, Roland, but she also provides an immense amount of flexibility that I greatly appreciate, largely because she has mobility and isn't married to particular weapon types. That lack of weapon bonuses hurt her max potential DPS compared to the others, perhaps, but she's got enough other stuff going for her that I personally don't care.

I'll have to look up Shock Trooper, but I assume it's a mod that increases shock damage? Have you seen the video of the guy who runs Lilith through Crimson Fastness using only grenades and phase blast, under a Plaguebringer mod? I imagine it's similar, except good for shielded enemies rather than armored enemies.

[Kestral]

Roland more difficult than Lilith? I'd say that Roland is the second easiest character, with Brick in the first, because of his regenerative abilities. I'm torn between Lilith and Mordecai though, as I'm not too experienced with Mordecai.

Also, I've restarted my old Lilith save as a side note.

[azuarc]

Lilith is easy in the sense that if you played as her first, you'll have a very hard time playing anyone but. The other activated abilities are handy for getting out of tight spots, but they don't literally rescue you from imminent defeat the way that Phasewalk does. Once you have enough levels to get the important enhancements to it, you can finally use it proactively rather than merely reactively. In the first 20 levels or so, it isn't as huge a boon as it becomes later. If you haven't played Lilith to at least that level, I doubt you would fully appreciate that she is, indeed, very easy to play beyond that.

Let me see if I can illustrate why Phasewalk is so powerful, on a character that otherwise has very little going for her:

Phasewalk inherently takes the Siren out of the game world for a few seconds by putting her in an alternate plane, reusable 36 seconds after exiting. While phasewalking, the Siren is invisible and invincible, and also moves exceptionally swiftly. However, she is unable to attack except by using a melee strike that will also end phasewalk prematurely. When activating or deactivating phasewalk, a "phase blast" occurs that does damage according to the elemental artifact Lilith has chosen. Sounds nice, but not altogether convincing, right? I mean how good is just a few seconds in practicality when it isn't even normally enough to start letting your shields recharge meaningfully? You'd have to run completely out of battle to use it as an escape, you'd be putting yourself at extreme risk if the element of surprise fails using it offensively, and that leaves it as very light utility for running past stuff you don't want to fight, right?

But then you start modifying it. The single most important skill Lilith has is called Silent Resolve. With it, she'll ignore 70% of ALL incoming damage during the 7 seconds following Phasewalk, meaning that you don't have to completely run away and might consider using it to charge rather than retreat, but the 36 second cooldown is prohibitive at that point. Fortunately, one ability reduces the cooldown by a straight 16 seconds, to 20. Another shortens the cooldown by 6 seconds per kill. If you could kill two enemies in those 7 seconds of damage resistance, you'd be ready to phasewalk again! If you need more, one of her mods will shorten the timer further by a few seconds.

Now, you'd rather spend your time out of PW rather than in it, but there's nothing that says you have to keep it active for the max duration. If you double-tap the activation button/key, you'll get both phase blasts and your damage resistance for another 7 seconds. Keep that rolling and it's like having almost 3 times the shield/health capacity. In addition, Lilith can get shield recovery (following a kill) of 7% per second, and the same for health recovery while she keeps PW up. Because of this, the double-blast tactic really just leads to enhanced bonuses and some extra elemental damage from the phase blasts so long as she can keep killing. With the right choice of weapon + mod, damage output is rarely an issue since you rarely have to keep yourself in check for survival purposes, and can often be downright reckless.

But if you don't feel like playing run-and-gun, you can use the same setup more cerebrally. With a fast recharge shield, and 11 seconds of phasewalk duration, you can recover nearly all your health and a huge chunk of your shield with PW up. Plus you can reposition yourself, do shock damage over time to any enemies that you pass (via skill), and daze enemies upon reentry. Or daze them with your bullets. With the shock damage during PW, a corrosive artifact doing acid damage upon reentry, and the ever-popular Maliwan Hellfire to produce incendiary damage, you can attack your enemies' weaknesses very effectively. This is all facilitated by the effects on phasewalk. Can your class's activated ability say that it figures *quite* as poignantly into the character's design? And can you see why this can potentially make the game easier, but still a lot of fun?

I'm not explicitly trying to convince others to play Lilith...only that she is a very powerful (IMO most powerful) character in spite of a lack of on-paper DPS. The other classes do specific things well enough, (or at least Brick and Mordecai do,) that I completely support playing those other classes, but not for me personally. I'm sticking to my double anarchies.

[ChickenPotato]

Ok so I just got this game yesterday, and its awesome

I started with the hunter, Mordecai, and I like playing as him (Snipers and Revolvers are awesome), but I die too often and get pwned in only a few hits.

I'm only level 13, is it worth starting again with Lilith or Roland?

EDIT: Google says that Mordecai sucks at low levels, but owns at higher levels. Looks like I'll just persevere a little longer.

[azuarc]

One could argue that all the characters suck at low levels. Think of it this way: let's say everyone got to start an Oblivion character, but they received no stat bonuses for their choices in major skills. Initially, all the characters would be more or less the same, until they started to specialize. This is particularly true in Borderlands, except that Mordecai inherently starts off as the weakest of the bunch due to his low health total and a special ability that is not very effective until you can max out one of his skill trees.

Mordecai is a very good character if you play to his strengths, and it sounds to me like your personal style would be to do so. The thing is that you basically need to make a choice between fighting at a safe distance or being a pistolero. The big problem with sniping is that once you hit somebody once, everyone else nearby comes running for you. Sometimes human targets can be separated, but what about cave worms? Skaggs? And good luck sniping at Rakks. And anyone can use a sniper rifle -- Mordecai just gets bonuses to it.

Oh, and good luck beating Sledge. If possible, I'd suggest recruiting some help for that fight. He'll be all whompana in your face before you can do any meaningful damage.

[KalleFlaxx]

Oh, and good luck beating Sledge. If possible, I'd suggest recruiting some help for that fight. He'll be all whompana in your face before you can do any meaningful damage.

Here's how I killed him. Might spoil a bit, your choice if you wanna read.

Spoiler:

I tried killing Sledge by just running into his room, shooting and punching like a madman, but after dying for the 5th time or something, I found that I could just stand outside, open a door, get a couple shots at him, and then exit before the door closes. You can't open the doors from the inside, but as long as you stand really near the door, and know how long it stays open, you should be able to take him out pretty easily.

[azuarc]

Interesting tactic. I'm sure it requires dying a couple times first to move him to where you want him. Actually, it sounds a LOT like how I beat Mad Mel.

Spoiler:

I'm absolutely horrible with the vehicle quests. So I just say on the edge to his arena and fired rockets at him. The funniest part is that if you make use of both vehicles from the station, you can actually do this without dying. Just park one right at the edge and you can climb into it from down below.

[ChickenPotato]

I ended up starting again as Lilith, as I wasn't liking getting owned in Sledge's safehouse and being unable to escape.

So far, so good, Lilith is pretty good.

[azuarc]

Up until level 10, they're all pretty much exactly the same. If anything, Phasewalk is kinda weak until you start getting skill points.

And Sledge's Safehouse is just a brutal area in general. I had one hell of a time trying to beat the Roid Rage Psycho. I forgot about him. He's actually pretty darn tough, too. I had no trouble with him on Playthrough 2 once I knew his attack pattern and my skills and equipment were much better. Correct what I said earlier...Sledge isn't your first real challenge, the RRP and the areas leading up to him are.

[videogmer314]

Up until level 10, they're all pretty much exactly the same. If anything, Phasewalk is kinda weak until you start getting skill points.

And Sledge's Safehouse is just a brutal area in general. I had one hell of a time trying to beat the Roid Rage Psycho. I forgot about him. He's actually pretty darn tough, too. I had no trouble with him on Playthrough 2 once I knew his attack pattern and my skills and equipment were much better. Correct what I said earlier...Sledge isn't your first real challenge, the RRP and the areas leading up to him are.

If I remember correctly, there's an easy way to kill the Roid Rage Psycho. He's the giant backed up by an army of midgets you fight in a circular arena to get the keys to Sledge's Safehouse, right?

Spoiler:

Let him kill you once, then instead of going back into the arena, stay where you are and just snipe him and his army. And remember, bullets do go through a chain link fence.

[Josjie]

I never had any trouble with Sledge. Just don't let him get close. Stay where you are and snipe him a few times. Usually this'll get his health down fast.
If he charges at you, dodge his attack, run to the other side of the room and snipe him again. Once he's down, focus on the remaining enemies.

As for the Roid Rage Psycho, I usually run around in circles and toss a few grenades 'over my shoulder'. Once all his minions are dead, just kite him. Snipe, run away. Snipe, run away. Shouldn't be so difficult .

One could argue that all the characters suck at low levels. Think of it this way: let's say everyone got to start an Oblivion character, but they received no stat bonuses for their choices in major skills. Initially, all the characters would be more or less the same, until they started to specialize. This is particularly true in Borderlands, except that Mordecai inherently starts off as the weakest of the bunch due to his low health total and a special ability that is not very effective until you can max out one of his skill trees.

Mordecai is a very good character if you play to his strengths, and it sounds to me like your personal style would be to do so. The thing is that you basically need to make a choice between fighting at a safe distance or being a pistolero. The big problem with sniping is that once you hit somebody once, everyone else nearby comes running for you. Sometimes human targets can be separated, but what about cave worms? Skaggs? And good luck sniping at Rakks. And anyone can use a sniper rifle -- Mordecai just gets bonuses to it.

Oh, and good luck beating Sledge. If possible, I'd suggest recruiting some help for that fight. He'll be all whompana in your face before you can do any meaningful damage.

Mordecai is actually a very good solo character. While sniping at long-range isn't really possibly in this game (snipe one enemy and you'll alert everyone close to him), it's still easy to get some critical shots with a good semi-auto sniper. Mordecai isn't very powerful during the first five levels but after that you can put some points in the Caliber skill for some more damage with sniper rifles.

As for Sledge, just stay where you are and snipe him. If he gets too close, run away and snipe him again. Rinse and repeat.

Sniping Rakks is tough but Rakks aren't challenging enemies anyway. Even as Mordecai, with 0 proficiency for shotguns, it's fine to switch to your shotgun when you're dealing with Rakks.
It's true that picking enemies off one-by-one isn't really possible (except for zombies, because they're so slow). That's why I always use semi-auto sniper rifles .

By the way, any other PC players here? I know that The Raven has Borderlands and Spiney is going to buy the GOTY edition. Co-op would be fun

[apploud]

Spoiler:

To the left of where you enter Sledge's room is a lowered walkway over lava that works as a loop. Keep moving around it with sledge following you and you can snipe him pretty easily.

My favorite build is using Mordecai with his Gunslinger tree (plus Trespass and various other skills) with a Thanatos, Defiler and a 23 pistol ammo regeneration C-mod. Using your Thanatos you can shred through most enemies easily. And you can charge right up to bosses and "aim" at their Critical spots and just unload into it (With increased criticals, a chance to fire two shots instead of one, the 40% kill shot and ability to unload a clip of 80 bullets in 3 seconds at, well any damage really, drops bosses quickly). The Defiler is for the crimson lance, and once an enemy is taking corrosive DOT your Thanatos is even more effective, for harder "Normal" enemies.

[ChickenPotato]

I completely owned Sledge with Lilith.

Piece of (cheese)cake.

[Dan-Ru]

So just wondering. Can you only do 2 playthroughs without the addons?

[Kestral]

So just wondering. Can you only do 2 playthroughs without the addons?

Yes, and you can only do 2 playthroughs with them as well.