Character build

[dallen68]

I find alchemy very useful. I don't think it's a "major skill" no matter what class you take, but my characters almost always have it @ or near 100 by about level 25. Sometimes I have security as a major, sometimes not. Generally, I have more effective ways of opening locks.

[Aces Andre]

I didn't want to insult anybody, and I'm sorry if I did it in anyway . I just wanted to give my opinion.

On the other hand, you guys must confess: Security Major Skill is, probably, the worst... (just my opinion, don't want to insult )

I think it depends. If you choose not to get the Skeleton Key (or if you give it to Martin) then the Security can be useful. If I was to look for the worst skill for a Major, I'd say Speechcraft, due to how easily you can replace it with a charm spell.

[Jeff]

...so what is the point of Major Skills then...???

If a certain Class "Would/Should" use certain Skills as Majors, and you don't choose them, then are you playing that Class...???

[The Tom]

Well, you can have a Master spellsword at level one because he chose the warrior class, I presume. It would make the game disgustingly easy as all the creatures would be on the levelled lists for level one. There isn't much point to that, though. You might as well play to your strengths, and I don't think Oblivion was designed with those who wouldn't do that in mind.

[KrisCrash]

...so what is the point of Major Skills then...???

To allow level progress. But they don't make sense a lot, and there's as such no real point to them.

This is my breakdown:
A skill that you WILL rely on but is HARD to improve: use as major. Examples: Restoration, Destruction, Block... you'll get a good starter boost.
A skill that you WILL rely on but which levels EASILY: use as minor. Examples: Conjuration, Mysticism, Alchemy, Alteration, Acrobatics, Sneak.

A skill you WILL NOT rely on, but which levels EASILY: Good major: can be useful for gaining levels fast, topping off a level when you're just really ready for that nap.
Good minor: Useful for gaining +5 attribute bonuses but may not cover an attribute you are interested in as it's a skill you are not relying on (Example: Intelligence skills for a non-casting character)
A skill you WILL NOT rely on, and which is HARD to improve: Good major if you are not planning to gain levels quickly. Example: Blunt if you use Blade/Blade if you use Blunt (not hand-to-hand)
Bad minor: you don't want it, and it's tedious.

If a certain Class "Would/Should" use certain Skills as Majors, and you don't choose them, then are you playing that Class...???

I don't know. My class doesn't matter a lot to me, I called it 'heavy monk' for the heavy armour and hand to hand...

From the above breakdown I have this build:
Selected majors (one for each attribute)
Blunt
Heavy Armour
Restoration
Mysticism
Marksmanship
Athletics
Illusion

But what I would consider the defining skills of my character are:
Heavy Armour
Restoration
Destruction
Any melee skill
Marksmanship
Conjuration
Alteration
(though he has other well-trained skills than these)

But that build would be a disaster for even gaining Willpower, my favourite thing

So what is the purpose? I have only chosen majors which either a) ones I use that improve my survivability for that next level they push me to (Restoration, Heavy Armour), or b) ones I don't use a lot (Mysticism, Illusion).

Breakdown #2:
- Don't choose more than 1-2 major for one attribute.
- Don't choose majors that gain levels easily if you do not wish to level up fast.

[Jeff]

Sorry, that was a rhetorical question(s)...

I am an antagonist of the "Broken Leveling System" and "Efficient Leveling".

I've always had issues with pushing people to "Level Efficiently" because of a "Broken Leveling System", as opposed to teaching people to play properly and efficently level. We should not tell people to not chose Alchemy as a Major, or any skill for that matter. Instead, point out how to use that skill properly, and make them aware of any potential risks of fast, slow, over, or under leveling (or whatever you chose to call it).

I have chosen Alchemy, Sneak, and Security, as majors a lot, and have never had any issues with fast leveling. I had a Merchant, that had Speachcraft and Mercantile as Majors. I actuallly had a character with these as majors:

Alchemy
Security
Sneak
Marksman
Athletics
Acrobatics
Light Armor

I had another character that I never increased Endurance on. It was still 30, at level 37, for 168 Health.

The intent was not to make a Weak Character to die, the intent was to play a Weak Character, so that they will Survive.

[KrisCrash]

Oh I see. But beginners may want to avoid that.
I've had a similar build, but at some point the fire towers in the Oblivion planes would almost one-shot kill my character (with 75 fire resist too) because I had not pushed her Endurance, but their damage kept levelling up!

[Jeff]

Although I was Aware of UESP, as I had used the Wiki for Morrowind, I stayed away when I first started playing Oblivion. This is why I do not buy into the "Broken Leveling System". If the Leveling System was actually Broken, then I probably wouldn't be playing. If I was told to not choose Skills that would be appropriate for the Class that I wanted, when I first started playing, then I probably wouldn't be playing.

[Hex Link]

Yes I know what you mean...
Efficient Leveling is rather boring and can ataully be "work" for me! And that is not what I want when playing a game.
But after sometime I found out that the only thing you have to do i choose the right majors!
You just gotta think about how you're going to play and if you do it right, you will get a good level up. Maybe not the best but good enough so enemys wont be gods when you're lvl 30
For example, as a thief marksman who also uses maybe blades and poisons his shots u dont want these as majors:
Alchemy
Marksman
Blade
Sneak
Light Armor
Acrobatics/ Athletics
security

You will probably get something like +3+2+2 when you level up which is imo not enough.
Rather you should take out a few skills you're gonna use and bring in some you wont use
For example
I wouldnt take in sneak since a thief uses that too much and it's not that hard to lvl.
However I would keep either one or both of the weapon skills, since its pretty hard at the beginning when your main weapons skill is at level 5
So something like this:
Marksman
Blade
Acrobatics
Light Armor
Block
Restoration
Mysticsm

I also took security out since this also levels too fast imo
And Alchemy too.
Block, Restoration and Mysticsm are skills you wont use! IF you would use one of those replace it.

Note that this is just an example! I dont know how well it works! It also greatly depends what you're going to do with your character! If you for example never want to get in a fight but rather level through breaking into houses, you would have to have sneak as major <-- again just an example

[Jeff]

Saddly it is hard to make my point without seeming like I'm Trolling or looking for an Argument. I am not... Thing is, there is no Truth, there is only peoples percetion on what they believe to be true, or have been told to be true.

I am actually curious how many people have played a Standard Class? How many have actually taken Alchemy or Sneak as a Major, and leveled too fast? ...or how many are just repeating and spreading the Myths, because that's what everyone says...???
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I've had a similar build, but at some point the fire towers in the Oblivion planes would almost one-shot kill my character (with 75 fire resist too) because I had not pushed her Endurance,

I had another character that I never increased Endurance on. It was still 30, at level 37, for 168 Health.

My Charater never did the Main Quest, they were the Cowardly Thief, staying in Role, they would never enter an Oblivion Gate.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
My concern is if someone wants to play an Assassin which would look like this:
Specialization: Stealth
Attributes: Intelligence, Speed
Skills: Acrobatics
Alchemy
Blade
Light Armor
Marksman
Security
Sneak

Should we really be talking them out of that Class, and having them play a Generic Adventurer? - OR - Should we be giving advice on how to best Role Play that Character.

The intent is not to make a Weak Character to die, the intent is to play a Weak Character, so that he will Survive.

[Aces Andre]

Saddly it is hard to make my point without seeming like I'm Trolling or looking for an Argument. I am not... Thing is, there is no Truth, there is only peoples percetion on what they believe to be true, or have been told to be true.

I am actually curious how many people have played a Standard Class?

My first class was a standard class. A Nord Warrior. He got to around level 30 before I got bored with him. Since then I've played loads of customs, none that have ever held my interest very long. Then I played an Agent. That was awesome. My first good experience of stealth gameplay. Since then I've tried to create other interesting classes mimicking what I found in the Agent, but I always find myself going back to the standard Agent class.

I know I said Speechcraft would be the skill I consider worst for a Major (I still do from a purely utilitarian standpoint), but even in the custom classes I create I usually have Speechcraft and Mercantile because I like to roleplay a character with people skills. I think roleplay is a big part of why I enjoyed the Agent class. It was something that was already in the game that I could try to make my character fit to, rather than making a class that was built for all purpose survival, I had a character that I felt had strengths and weaknesses I could play with.

Of the other standard classes I've enjoyed the Pilgrim and the Healer. They're none of them optimal, but they have an enjoyable theme. So I pretty much agree with you, I wouldn't want to modify my original choice/idea just because a roleplaying choice isn't functionally optimal.