Dear Caz & Codex, RE: The UESP

[Josjie]

UESP, we apologize for the inconvenience.

We love UESP. We are a family. Some of us have been here for a couple of months. Others for years. We believe that with this post, we're doing what's best for UESP.

All of us no longer feel at home here. There's also a lot of stuff that happened in the past, behind-the-scenes, and it has been ignored for too long. For these two reasons, we decided to write this post.

We understand that some of you, especially the ones who've been here for only a couple of weeks/months, might feel confused or offended. There's no need for that. It is not your fault.

We would like to ask each and every one of you to read the entire post before replying. If you don't care, just ignore this thread. Posts that we consider to be off-topic, flaming or spamming, will be deleted.

Many of the quotes in this post are from the moderator forum, a subforum that only moderators have access to. We took screenshots of all the important threads. Most of these threads were eventually deleted. The past would've been erased, if we didn't have these screenshots.

If we get banned, for stating our opinion and caring about UESP, then you will see that a lot of members will leave as well. We should've done this months ago. For that, we'd like to apologize. UESP, you deserved better.

Thanks for your understanding.
Dogmantra, Generalno1, Josjie, Jpot, Kestral, Newsound, nyk45, r, Spiney, The Dog Whisperer, The Raven, Tom10320, Veck, Vivec's Tears and Woolymammoth.

The problem

We believe that UESP deserves a better moderator team. Right now there are four moderators who are in the same timezone. For at least 16 hours a day, there should be a moderator online. Moderators need at least 2000 posts a year (including the general forums and moderator forum), that's 5.5 posts a day. And that's the absolute minimum. For a forum like UESP, 5.5 posts a day isn't much.

These stats are based on many other forums, including the official Bethesda forums. Moderators are not just enforcers of the law but also a part of the community. Their first goal is to keep everyone happy. One way to achieve this goal, is by helping others. Moderators are also an example to everyone. They shouldn't be too strict. They cannot let personal feelings influence their decisions as a moderator. They should, at all times, remain objective.

If you do not meet these requirements, you shouldn't be a mod.

A mod team for a forum like UESP needs at least 10 moderators. Five or six full moderators, who keep an eye on several subforums, and four or five helper-mods, who are specialised in one subforum. Timezones are very important, we need at least two moderators from the USA region and two moderators who live in Asia/Oceania.

Consequences

Right now, the moderator team does not meet those requirements. More on that later.

We've all seen the consequences in the past year. Members are leaving. Not for their own reasons, no, they leave in a big fuss. Rules are being broken. People are getting off-topic. Complain threads pop-up everywhere.

Here are some examples:
May I have a word - Aug 12 (2010)
Improving the UESP Forums - Jul 26 (2010)
Dead forums.uesp.net - Jul 20 (2010)
Next person to leave the forums is a queer, yells Lord Obama - Feb 13 (2010)
So Lonely - Dec 14 (2009)

We believe that all of these problems are the result of a bad moderator team.

The moderators

First of all: Leilah is new. We all think that she's a good mod. So this will be the last mention of her in this thread. Nothing of this is aimed at Leilah.

We counted the amount of posts from June the 1st, 2009 to June the 1st, 2010. Here are the results:

Dogmantra - 2760 posts - 7.56 posts a day
Josjie - 2565 posts - 7.027 posts a day
Cactus - 2100 posts - 5.75 posts a day
Codex - 930 posts - 2.547 posts a day
Caz - 585 posts - 1.6027 posts a day

This is the total amount of posts. So it includes the General forums and the Moderator forum, a forum only moderators have access to.

Dogmantra left in April this year. Cactus was gone for at least four months because he was banned. More on that later.

As you can see, only three moderators meet the minimum requirements - or even half of that, and two of them have left.

Replies by the moderators

Here are some of the replies to the threads mentioned above and various other threads:

Dead forums.uesp.net

It'd be nice if you could add some ideas on how to improve these forums.

1. Religious and political topics are against the rules because they upset people, as you all very well know, it's more trouble than it's worth.

2. Apart from that, no one is stopping you making threads to discuss things properly. Andere made a fair few himself which went ok.

3. If we can't handle the supervision, we'll recruit. Simple as that. You can always help though by using the report button for quick attention.

Our comment: Around 2 and a half hours later, Caz entered the scene and began to nay-say what Josjie was trying to accomplish with the thread. Rather than exploring the possibilities for forum improvements, she immediately condemned Kestral's suggestions and attempted to make early excuses for any failures the mod team may have had coping with it, pinning the blame on the little man.

Improving the UESP Forums.

To everyone:
Yes, it is a real problem that the games are old and everyone knows pretty much everything about them. But it is up to you all to come up with good topics to keep everything in those parts going. Worked fairly well in Morrowind recently, imo. If you have any extra ideas, then step forward. We will look into them and try to use the good ones to improve things. I think the whole clean up me and Codex took care of shows that we do listen if you have suggestions.

I think the main problem we all have though is in the General sections, mainly General Banter.
1. A lot of threads are/were fairly pointless, but one reason we never did anything is because technically nothing was against the rules, and having a clean up might just bring along more complaints and anti-moderatorism. It can be done though. Is that what you want?
2. The amount of off-topic posting is too high. As moderators we go around and try to remind people to stay on topic as much as possible. But we cannot read every thread in detail every day, remember that. So I think I speak for all of the moderators when I ask you all to help us a bit and don't go off-topic, and if you do see something, use the report button for quick attention. We in turn can remind people more often, but then you need to listen to us. We rarely hand out warnings for spamming and being off-topic since it mostly seems a bit harsh, but we can be more strict about it.

So: opinions, suggestions?

Our comment:

I think the whole clean up me and Codex took care of shows that we do listen if you have suggestions.

She completely ignores Josjie. Who's been the hardest working of all the mods. It seems that she doesn't see Josjie as part of the team.

But we cannot read every thread in detail every day, remember that.

Isn't that what a mod is supposed to do? Make sure the forums are clean. To read in detail what is written and make a justified decision. And if you don't have enough time as a mod, then maybe you shouldn't be a mod. If your constantly absent and you are straining the work-load of the other mods then perhaps you should resign.

But one reason we never did anything is because technically nothing was against the rules, and having a clean up might just bring along more complaints and anti-moderatorism. It can be done though.

I've been hearing about threads about "t*ts" and other banal and inappropriate subjects that managed to slip under the radar or where completely ignored. If these threads are making people leave then why would anyone complain about them being cleaned.
In my opinion, what Caz said was: We can't think of a way to help the forums so we'll just say nay-nay and wait for this to blow over. That is what a moderator SHOULD NOT say. If you can't be bothered to aid the forums or fix what has happened, then, as I've said before: You shouldn't be moderators.

Our comment (2): We don't need Caz and Codex to "Clean up" all the forums, your job isn't just to clean up posts and ban users, That was never the problem. And that bit about "We can't be on and check everything". Why not? We all do. Something particularly distasteful about this is how Caz diffrenciates between Mods and Users. "It's your job to create topics" Caz and Codex should be posting more than us. And we certainly don't want Caz and Codex to be more strict or "Clean up" again, that was never the issue. And the clean up means They care? To me it just seemed like they threw a bone to the people to keep them happy.

6. I don't think you can tell anyone to post topics or not. It is not our job to post them, any more than it is that of the other members. I think it is up to us as the community, not to anyone in particular. As for what we'd "like" to see, that's what the rules are for. It can be anything within those limits (which should be much clearer in the new version of the rules, btw).

Josjie's comment: (in that same thread) #6 Then we clearly disagree on that point. I don't think the only job of a moderator is to ban people and tell people to stay on-topic. We're not dictators or a machine.
As a moderator, it is your task to preserve the quality of a forum, make sure that everyone feels at home and follows the forum rules and to watch over the community. If all you say is "stay on-topic", people will quickly lose respect for you.
One of your first and most important tasks as a moderator is to serve as an example to others. Imo we're all equal, moderators and members, but there are still people, especially newcomers, who look up to you. So as a moderator you should always help out others. I'd call it a requirement for a good moderator to spend at least 30-60 minutes a day helping people in the Oblivion, Morrowind and/or General forums. If you don't have the time for that (excluding a vacation), you shouldn't be a moderator imo.
Secondly, you can create new topics yourself or reply "just for fun" in existing topics. Why? To communicate with the members, to show them that you're there. You're not their enemy, you're a friend. If you want less useless threads and off-topic posts, create some discussion threads yourself.
Right now, if a member wants to contact a moderator by PM, he/she doesn't know if that moderator is available or not. That's why we need a "Status" topic in the Announcements forum where they can see if you're available or not (on a vacation, busy...). If you're gone for a few weeks, simply writing a goodbye post in the Welcomes&Goodbyes thread isn't enough.
Staying in contact with the community, helping them out, being an active poster... all those things are perhaps even more important than swinging the banhammer every now and then and telling people to follow the rules.

Next person who leaves the forum is a queer, yells Lord Obama

There is no promise that anything at all will change. What Josjie posted is his own suggestions and he does not speak for the entire moderator team. I can only apologise on his behalf if it sounded like that. This shouldn't even be a sticky, so it's been changed to a normal topic.

Our comment: Apparantly Codex feels the need to apologize because Josjie asked the community for suggestions. Why? Because the moderators are not allowed to communicate with the community?

May I have a word...

I feel the current situation is a bit like this:

I remember as a kid, there was a playground I used to go to all the time. But as I and all the other kids (who were about the same age as me) grew up, naturally our interests changed. Now though, there is a new generation of kids using the same playground.

New people join all the time. As someone said, it's the people who makes a forum. Of course the forum won't be the same with new people around. But who has the right to say that's making it worse?

I agree with what others have already said. The main problem older members have is that the forums are changing and they can't accept it. New members are not bad things, however. We were all new at one point! The way I see it, the family still exits.. it's just a different one from the one you knew, Lunar. And the only thing anyone can do is either adapt, or leave. I have made friends with quite a few of the newer members and I am quite happy here

About such topics in general: to a certain extent we have allowed open discussion and criticism, and we are still very open to suggestions and advice. But be decent enough to keep it in pms. Anything else borders on or soon turns into trolling, especially when directed at a particular member. You agreed to abide by the rules when you signed up, so please do so. Plus, they make our new members feel unwelcome, which I find is a real shame!
For that reason, this thread is being locked, and I ask everyone to try and sort out any troubles you have, personal or otherwise, via pm, so we can keep the atmosphere around here more optimistic and friendly.

Our comment: The family still exists? And why was this thread locked? Because new members might feel unwelcome? They also feel unwelcome if they never get in contact with the moderator team. It is indeed a real shame when new members feel unwelcome but this thread is not the cause of that.

Cactus



Cactus was banned on January the 10th, 2010. Dogmantra and Josjie confronted Caz and Codex, who refused to unban him at first. The situation escalated and Dogmantra left. Josjie eventually convinced Caz and Codex to unban Cactus.

The decision to ban Cactus was made between Codex and Caz. Dogmantra and Josjie were basically ignored.

Dogmantra created a new topic in the Moderator forum where he confronted Caz and Codex. Here are the most important parts:

Why, then, was the entire team not consulted for their opinions before taking action? The ONLY time that is acceptable is for spambots, which there will definitely be no debate over. Cactus is not a spambot, his posts are far too intelligent for that. A decision was not reached between all of us. I can almost guarantee that Caz at least knew there would be objections from at least someone when she banned Cactus, so she should not have done so.

The reason why Cactus was banned? He hacked someone's account and threatened him. This is what he wrote: If you do anything to her, I'll come over there. That was clearly a mistake. But it was a personal issue and it had nothing to do with UESP. Josjie made that clear to Caz and Codex a few days after this topic was created and then Cactus was finally unbanned.
There was also no proof. Even if Cactus hacked someone's account, that doesn't mean he should be insta-banned. A decision like that always needs to go through the moderator team. It should also be discussed with Cactus. By the entire moderator team. Dogmantra and Josjie never received any sort of proof from Caz and Codex. The fact that Cactus was unbanned, shows that it was a bad decision to ban him.

I have spoken with Caz on MSN, and when I requested a copypaste of the "death threat" PMs that Cactus sent, she said she didn't have them. She then said she hadn't actually even seen them. I need proof. Without proof, they do, for all intents and purposes, not exist.

To summarise:
Caz, you know I described this as a [&@%!] up, and you know I also don't swear in the written medium readily. This just goes to show how badly I think this has all been handled.
If this doesn't get sorted responsibly and maturely, then the board's going to be missing more members than Cactus.

What I believe:
Unban Cactus, at least until we reach a decision. Sanction always comes after decision making process. ALWAYS.
We're a [&@%!] team. We need to start acting like one.

I know I did not act right in that I should have taken care of this properly much sooner. But now that it has been requested, I am doing so. Other than that though, I see nothing wrong with what I have done so far.

It took place one month before Cactus was banned and before this thread was created. Caz received a request to ban Cactus. And that's exactly what she did.

I can confirm everything Caz just said.

Caz...
1. You allowed anger to influence a moderating decision. You were cross with Ricky, as you admitted in that MSN conversation we had.
2. You allowed yourself to be manipulated into taking action after everything had already been resolved.
3. You did not consult the rest of the team, like you're supposed to, before taking a major action. Furthermore, you did not even think we might want to know that you'd done anything.
4. You are making more decisions (regarding length of ban, removal of mod status, etc.) and just ignoring any objections raised.
5. You are acting in a patronising manner towards me, as if you're somehow better. Not a good idea when you're talking to me especially.
6. You keep claiming you've proved things, but I doubt that. The whole hacking business was never in question. The contents of the so-called "threatening" PM? Were. If I remember correctly, you did not see a copy of the PM, and therefore have all of this through second hand information. I have heard from the person who sent it that it said "If you do anything to her, I'll come over there."

Dogmantra's post says it all.

And I apologise for not doing it already, but the little spare time I have from learning for my exams, I spend relaxing and trying not to get stressed about anything else, because I am afraid to say, I am actually sick from too much stress, I have been more or less for over a year now and I am trying to recover. This business is not helping.

Y'know, no-one held you at gunpoint and said "Don't you dare quit being a moderator!" If you couldn't handle it, you should have quit. Not the end of the world.

Alright people, we all need to calm down about this. We need to discuss this, not argue about it.

From where I'm sitting, hacking other people's accounts is inexcusable, and whether Cactus has admitted to it or simply refuse to deny it he cannot continue to be a moderator here. You can't have moderators hacking accounts and run a respectable forum.

Now, I'll agree that in the situation Caz should have discussed the situation more thoroughly due to the time delays between events. That was her mistake. Let's acknowledge that and move on, since that's all we can do about it.

Dogmantra, if you're really as angry about this as you appear to be, I would suggest cooling down a lot before you do anything.

Ratwar interfered. "Cactus cannot continue to be a moderator here". That's what he said. But wait, two months later Cactus was a moderator again! This shows that Ratwar didn't know what was going on but only showed up to side up with Codex/Caz.
"Let's acknowlegde that and move on". That's it? Two moderators banned a fellow moderator for no reason, and we should just move on?

Caz, I shan't be joining you, no. Why?
It is evident that I am not, and have never been, part of this team, if there even is a team. My opinions are frequently ignored, when I try to help it goes completely un-noticed. The only time you seemed to acknowledge my opinions was when you tried to tell me that I was trolling for expressing them. I'm starting to see parallels here between the forums and real life. You want a calm, civilised conversation? We went beyond that when I spent the past few days completely on edge, ready to blow. I almost shouted at someone who opened a book, Caz. We've gone beyond civilised.

Cactus part 2

Cactus emailed with Josjie after he was banned. Here are some quotes:

Removed upon request - Dark Lord

Hey,

I've spoken with both Caz and Dogmantra last Friday. They were both very angry so I listened to their rant and tried to understand the whole situation (which is very hard for me to understand). In short: I came up with the idea for the mod meeting, they both calmed down a bit and I prevented Dogmantra from posting a really rude reply (half of his post were asterisks) which could've lead to Caz and Codex banning him.

Anyway, I've uploaded the topic as a .txt file for you (thread.txt). You're still a moderator and I think you should be allowed to read this (if you want).

Now I have a problem:
- Codex and Caz want to give you a temporary ban and let Nephele remove your moderator rights (and after that discuss if they're going to unban you or not)
- Ratwar doesn't know what is going on but for now he's siding with Caz and Codex
- Dogmantra is very angry and won't join the mod meeting today
- I'm more or less "the neutral party here". I'm not (well, until recently) personally involved in all this.
- From what I've heard, you were jealous at **** and Caz says that you've hacked his account and read some of his PM's. Dogmantra told me that you didn't read them and I believe him.

Now I don't even know who the heck **** is and I couldn't care less. Based on what I've heard I'm siding with Dogmantra (and you). If you haven't read any of ****'s PM's and you never really "threatened him", you don't deserve to be banned. In fact, that means Caz has made a bigger mistake than you (she banned you without telling us and asking for our opinion).

So... the mod team is split up. As I discussed with Dogmantra on MSN: we fail as mods because we shouldn't let our personal situation/feelings influence our decisions/functioning as a mod. Dogmantra wondered why Codex is our leader
because he never posts replies or does anything mod-related. I don't know if that's true but I do agree that we should focus more on our task as moderators: keep members coming to the forums.

Now I can try to convince Codex and Caz to unban you but I doubt they will do that. Caz still believes your PM was really threatening and that you read ****'s PM's. Hell, I'm not even 100% sure if that's true or not, for now I'll simply believe you on your word.

Furthermore, Ratwar is "siding" with Codex and Caz and you've confessed (according to Caz). So it's me vs. the rest and I'm not sure what to do. I was hoping you had something in mind, actually .

I've got to go now, I'll be back at 0:15 PM. The mod meeting will take place around 3 PM.

Good luck for now, stay strong

- Josjie

Removed upon request - Dark Lord

Ok, I'll try to convince them. It's the least I can do.

Other than that, I don't know what to do. We could contact Nephele and explain everything to her but I don't think she wants to be bothered with all this personal stuff.

I'll send you another email when the mod meeting is over.

- Josjie

I talked with Caz.

Here's what I told her:

You hacked ****'s account. That was a few months ago and it has already been settled. So it cannot be used as an argument against you.
You also threatened him. That's... not very nice but it has nothing to do with UESP. It's something personal and Caz and Codex were doing the wrong thing when they banned you. It should've been settled on MSN but Caz decided
to use UESP against you (because she knows UESP means a lot to you).
So... there's absolutely no reason why you can't stay as a moderator. Caz agreed with this.

She told me that she's leaning towards saying no (you can't stay as a mod). I replied that I understand her situation but that this is a personal thing. She shouldn't let it influence this decision.

At 3 PM I'm going to have a talk with Codex. Hopefully I can convince him. If he agrees, Caz is fine with that.

Removed upon request - Dark Lord

Removed upon request - Dark Lord

Cactus unbanned

Sent: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:55 pm

Removed upon request - Dark Lord

Sent: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:30 pm

Removed upon request - Dark Lord

Sent: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:32 am

Removed upon request - Dark Lord

Sent: Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:52 am

Removed upon request - Dark Lord

Sent: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:01 pm

Removed upon request - Dark Lord

Sent: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:08 am

Removed upon request - Dark Lord

Sent: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:44 pm

Removed upon request - Dark Lord

Sent: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:22 pm

Removed upon request - Dark Lord

Sent: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:47 pm

Removed upon request - Dark Lord

Josjie's comment: I don't have the PMs that I sent to Cactus anymore. But as you can see, I moderated the forums on my own for three months (January, February and March). I also had exams and I was busy with various other things. Back then the spambots were still an issue. And members started complaining about inactivity and other stuff. That hit me personal. Even though it wasn't my fault. You can't moderate UESP on your own. You need a moderator team.

Dogmantra

Dogmantra had a problem with r. r is now supporting us, it's a thing from the past. But r was not the reason why Dogmantra left.

Dogmantra created a new thread in the moderator subforum. Here are some of the replies:

Dogmantra... with all due respect, you are overreacting a bit.

2. His pms to you weren't that disrespectful. And he has every right to contact you if he has a problem - you are a moderator! It is your job to deal with these things in a calm, civilized manner, and it appears you get angry fairly quickly. So no, it cannot be considered harassment.

I also have to say, you are a bit touchy... As a moderator, you have a position that is easily targeted, and you should be able to shrug small things like this off:
- "You take bribes for mods? ... Is that how Dogmantra got the job?"
- "Just no-one vote for Dogmantra, he's arrogant enough as it is."

And if Dogmantra finds these posts offensive, we should respect that since he's part of the team. It doesn't matter if all the other moderators disagree with him, these posts are personal and directed to him and only Dogmantra can decide whether they are offensive or not.

*goodbye post*

Josjie's comment: Caz and Codex are telling Dogmantra that he's overreacting. That he's a bit touchy. And they tell him how to be a good moderator! Dogmantra, who made twice the amount of posts in one year than Codex and Caz combined! Dogmantra who has the respect of the community, who is active every day. We're all moderators. No one of us is higher in rank than the others. "it cannot be considered harassment", "you should be able to shrug small things off like that", that's bloody well Dogmantra's opinion. Drawing conclusions like that doesn't help to keep things civilized. Dogmantra is the only one who can say if this is offending or not, because it's directed at him.

Dogmantra's comment:The second time I left, it was Caz's decision.

I began a thread on a topic that should have been addressed earlier. Apparently I was both over-reacting and "less mature than we thought". After the ensuing arguments, I was upset and angry. A while back, I was asked to send a "Friendly PM" to the member causing problems because "I knew him best". This was just to steer him away from the slight flaunting of the rules he was doing. When I brought this up as proof that Caz and Codex had agreed with me on the subject in the past, they denied all existence of the PM.

The issue was eventually resolved to an extent that I was happy with after Josjie stepped in to help (again confirming that I was not a member of the moderating team)... Well, the issue the thread was originally about. During this argument, the issue was again raised of Caz and Codex's "people skills". Since the end result was what I had asked for to begin with, I assumed that Caz would like to rescind her statements, as I was still very offended. I made the simple request for a formal apology, with the caveat that if she did not do so, that would be the last she ever saw of me. When she made yet another, frankly insulting, post, "apologising" in the first sentence, then spending the next five pointing out where I went wrong, I promptly posted "Et tu, Codex?", then went and left. Forever.

How we want to improve the forums

- At least six new moderators from different timezones.
- Helper-mods. Maybe restore the Tea Party Mods!
- We'll try to bring back some of the 'oldies', like Cactus and Dogmantra. We can't promise anything though.
- New and improved forum rules. Not just a list of rules we want you to follow but also lots of tips, an introduction text for newcomers, etc.
- With a moderator team, we can read every single post on this website and make sure everybody feels welcome here.
- Tech Desk be gone.
- The Roleplay and Arts forum deserve a bit more attention. Stickies, contests, moderators participating...
- Active moderators who help people out and create new threads.

The change

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not as active as I was before. I didn't know it was as bad as you say though. I don't mean to try to justify anything, but I'm still on several times a day, reading up on the newest posts.
Some of you seem to have a general dislike for Caz and me though. I believe I understand why, but the way you're trying to "get back at us", when not knowing half the story, can only be described as distasteful (yes, I'm talking about the "behind the scenes" stuff here).
I accept though, if the community means I have to change my habits to be considered a proper moderator. I do really enjoy this place, and I want to thank everyone who posted their opinion. This thread has given me some food for thought...

Ok now I see what the problem is with me and Codex, I too have been thinking. I apologise for not being around enough, this is mostly due to personal issues and things to take care of irl, university and everything, partly because I didn't know what or where to post. I don't play Oblivion much, although more so recently than before, or Morrowind. Sometimes I don't get to play for months. It doesn't make things easier on me.
But I have been trying to improve recently, tried to be more active and I will do better as soon as time allows it (I have a couple things coming up but it should be over by September). Because I enjoy these forums, I have made loads of friends here and I want to give this place what it deserves in terms of being a moderator.

Our comment: When I read this the first time, I was initially impressed with their replies. Josjie had given them a grand roasting, and the forum peace was falling apart before them. They responded by admitting Josjie had a point, and that they could have been more active. Well done Caz and Codex! I thought to myself. Regrettably, it just seems to have been an empty promise from them both:
Codex has made 142 posts since promising to change on July 27th- that's 5.07 posts a day.
Caz has made 117 posts since promising to change on July 27th- that's 4.18 posts a day.
It may sound like a decent amount, but bear in mind, this includes every forum. Look at some other examples:
Josjie has made 179 posts since that thread- that's 6.39 posts a day.
I have have made 251 posts since my last post in that thread- that's 8.96 posts a day.
Wait... Did I misread that? Despite the fact that I've been away for quite some time, I've still managed to take my post count up and over that of Cazdex. Josjie can be excused, as he's had his holiday, birthday and has been sorting everything out, but aside from brief holidays, I see no excuse for Caz and Codex. Moderators are supposed to be more active than members, so why are so many members accelerating above them? Even more to the point is the fact that when flicking through their posts, I noticed the vast majority were indeed along the lines of:

I fully agree with what Newsound and Kestral said.

Welcome Vittelies and Sjeng! Enjoy your time on the forums

Our comment (2): Despite the fact that we appreciate these replies, Caz and Codex are just making excuses. We totally understand it if you're busy. But then resign as a moderator. If you are gone for two to three months... then why are you still a moderator? Because you care for UESP? If you truly cared for UESP, you could've let the community know that you were gone. And you could've helped Josjie instead of letting him moderate the forums on his own.

Our point

We think UESP deserves a better moderator team. Caz and Codex... if you disagree with us, we'd like to hear your opinion. Hopefully we can keep things civilized.

Based on everything that has happened in the past, the UESP forums going downhill in the past few months, the simple facts and evidence as shown in this post and the opinions of many UESP oldies and newcomers, we want to ask the two of you to step down as moderators. We believe that will give us the chance to appoint some new moderators and give this forum what she deserves.

[Josjie]

Opinions

Some of us wanted to voice their opinions here.

Tom10320: I'd like to compare the moderating team on this forum to that of another. On an Unreal Mods forum I visit, there are eight different moderators for a reasonably large community. They all have well over the average amount of posts - one has even reached 12,000 posts on what is not a very active forum at all. However, the point to this is that I see these people as actual people. One I frequently get into bickering with but we know it's friendly. Another I've offered to help with a Fallout 3 mod, and had a nice chat with. Another one was just a generally nice guy, and I really enjoyed talking to. Unfortunately he left.
I have talked to our current c-team of mods about twice, and that was indirectly when Codex pointed out a mistake I'd made in the Oblivion forum and another one when I joined. That's it. If you don't see your moderators as human, how can they be any good? The UESP is an active forum, yes, but not that active. It's the only forum I know where you can't actually just talk to the moderators like any other user. That's not a good thing.

r: At first I thought you were just bad moderators, but in the light of evidence I have seen not only in the past few weeks but repeatedly for months, I can't even find words to describe you on a forum that has a swear filter. Did it never strike you that the Cactus thing might be totally ridiculous on your part? As moderators you just cannot do things like that. You are the equivalent of a policeman who let a woman commit murder because she had nice tits.

You also managed, in That Incident, to victimise both myself and Dogmantra at the same time. First I received one warning for what turns out to be giving a very stressed moderator that final little push, and another for an unspecified offence, and just presumed that a massive argument was going on and a scapegoat needed to be found, mine obviously being a very short username to type which made it easier. Then I found out that, after I was warned twice (one warning away from a ban, I remind you all) Dogmantra got a rollicking for how he acted as well. This of course ended with two respected members of the community (well, I'm sure he was) leaving.

This wasn't the only reason I left though. Now, having lived in Birmingham for three years, I don't care about sinning because whatever foul vat of sewage Beelzebub has created cannot be any worse than Broad Street on a Saturday night. UESP during my time of leaving, however, was more along the lines of a provincial town - I don't know, Maidstone or somewhere like that. Bored kids running around causing trouble and none of them doing anything. The lore forum was swamped under a tide of 'Who would win in a fight out of the Ayleids, Azura with a pack of wolves and Jiv 'Enormous Face' Hiriel if they were fighting with pointy sticks in Elsweyr?' threads. That's not lore, that's just a string of words. As one of the prime movers in the Lore forum I took this insult personally. General Chat was much the same. We've had some truly thoughtful and hilarious threads (often at the same time) in the past, but some of the stuff being posted in General didn't even seem worth dignifying by reading. And did the moderators do anything about all this spam? No, because none of them were there.

Dogmantra was almost forced to leave. Cactus was too scared to do anything because he was on permanent probation (meaning that if he actually did anything he would get banned again) and Caz and Codex don't really seem to be in with the idea of posting on the forums they moderate. We've already heard from Josjie so I won't go over it again.

So thank you, Cazdex, for ruining UESP for myself and so many others.

Jpot:As a regular member of the UESP, it disturbs me that I am more active than these two mods, the longest standing of the team. Mods should be an active part of a growing community, more so even than the members, in my opinion.

Caz seemed like a nice person on the outside, she really did. But then I saw the kind of things that went on between her and the moderator team via the Moderator forums, etc, and I see just how fragile that mask is. Not to mention the personal communications I've had with her. She lied to me, via PM, at least twice, about the banning of Cactus, finally telling me that I had no right to be asking those sorts of questions. I took this with a grain of salt, resolving to wait until I knew more about the situation. I then found out that, not only had Cactus been banned, but Caz had been the one to ban him! Of course, she then became defensive of her poor moderating decision.
The other issue I have with Caz is her excuse that she is "exhausted" or "sick with stress", or that she's too busy with digs or holidays to do her job properly. Nobody's telling you you can't do these things, Caz, but when other time commitments prevent you from fulfilling your commitments as a mod, then you simply shouldn't be one.

Codex seems to exist only to wield a banhammer, remind people to stay on topic, agree with Caz, and make posts like this:

Warm welcomes to everyone new, and warm welcome backs to everyone returning. Oh, and warm see you laters to everyone who'll be away for a while

He's obviously trying to look active so we don't complain. It doesn't work that way, unfortunately.

We need to give these forums what they need and deserve: a proper, dedicated moderator team that is an active part of a growing community.

Vivec's Tears:It's been a little over a year since I joined the UESP. In my infant stage of membership, I stuck to the Morrowind forums, gradually acclimating myself to the community.

One of my first posts in General was in a thread regarding Pancakes, and how they should me cooked and eaten. It wasn't long before I clashed with Dogmantra and we had a heated, albeit humorous discussion on this. I first met Cactus in this thread as well, along with a few other members (including r, who I learned was hostile to Doggy in the most friendly way possible). And not long after, I had such an amazing feeling of inclusion and being part of a family. It wasn't a UESP devoid of all spammers and perfectly typing people. Nor was it completely lacking pointless threads. But there was such a feeling of being a family, and everyone working in a smooth and friendly way.

For a few months, it was at what I believe to be its peak. There was a lot of activity in The Arts and General, the Morrowind forum was very much alive, and there were no angry posts where members randomly left because of some trivial issue that angered them. Cactus and Josjie were on very often, posting witty comments and helping members in threads, doing the spare bit of modding that Dogmantra might have missed in General.

And then...something cracked. I believe it was the Cactus fiasco. There was a sudden tension running through the forums - my guess is that it had affected many more than just the mods. People began leaving for no reason (no apparent reason, anyway). Dogmantra started coming on less and acting moodier (presumably his conflict with r was coming into play here). Eventually he and Cactus left.

It was at this point I began to lose hope. Sometime late 2009. Something in me realized the UESP was changing, and not for the better. I tried to move on and say things like this had no doubt happened plenty of times before I had joined. But it simply didn't seem the same any more. So I left.

I returned sometime...when was it? Winter 2010? I heard Cactus and Dogmantra had returned, which gave me fresh hope. But soon, r left, and after that, things went head over heels downhill. Dogmantra left again. Cactus went on hiatus. Caz and Codex started slacking off, big time. I probably would have left anyway if it weren't for a personal problem that occurred with me during that time period and kept me from the internet for several months.

When I returned, I faced not only a sea of new faces and few familiar ones, but a very changed UESP. Now there was little intelligent talk, and everything seemed so artificial. The Morrowind forum died. So I did what was the rational course of action. I PM'd r.

This fine, exemplary Brit had left UESP, but he must have gotten an email notification and pipped over for a visit. So after a bit of casual catching up, I started to learn more from him about what had caused those unspoken tensions late the previous year. After a talk with Dogmantra on MSN, I learned yet more about it. And yet more from Josjie. This cleared my eyes a bit. So, after more discussing with r, we decided to form a rebellion.

I gave him a list of those I found trustworthy and overall good eggs still on UESP. He combined his list with mine and we rounded up the fine bunch of people here. Now, at this point we had left out any moderators, since we were both unsure where Josjie's and Leilah's allegiances lie, I think. But after I posted a long winded post in a tense thread and eventually PMed Josjie, I realized he felt very much the same I do and would be invaluable in the effort.

The rest is history. But I wish to make it clear that I bear no personal grudges against any of you, in any way. The only thing I want is for the UESP to be alive again, working like a true community of mature forum-goers.

I would also like to say that Josjie has been extremely amazing throughout all of this, and I have even more respect for him than I had before. He's done a lot of hard work and thinking, digging up evidence for his claims and being open-minded towards everyone. So thank you, Josjie.

Finally, I wish you all to think carefully and rationally about this, letting your logic and fairness decide for you, not your emotions. That's all I can ask of you. So thank you for reading this post.

---

More comments will be posted later today.

Final note by Josjie

Dear UESP,
I signed up for this forum four and a half years ago. I always dreamed of becoming a part of the moderator team. To make a change. To contribute to this forum and keep everyone happy.
That dream never came true.
With this thread, we don't want to offend or hurt anyone. This is not personal. Enough people have been hurt already.
I respect Caz and Codex. Even though I believe Cactus, it's possible that there's another side of the coin. Maybe Cactus made a big mistake. But that doesn't matter right now because it is personal. It has nothing to do with UESP. For that very reason, we unbanned him.
The facts speak for themselves. It's not just the inactivity. Cactus was banned. He returned three months later. Dogmantra left. UESP lost a lot of good members. Then there's the fact that rules are being broken every day. People no longer feel welcome. UESP has changed dramatically.
You can't run a forum like UESP without a moderator team. I learned that the hard way when I had to moderate these forums on my own for three months.
Caz and Codex, I hope we can sort this out in a civilized way. I do believe in second chances, but we've given you one in January this year. I respect you as persons. Caz, you told me it was really hard for you to ban Cactus. I don't know if that is true, because later we just unbanned him because there was no evidence. But believe me, it was really hard for me to write this post. I don't want to hurt anyone. But we cannot be silent any longer.
Codex and Caz, here's my suggestion: apologize for your behaviour in the past and step down as a mod. If you do that, none of us will mind if you stay as normal members.
“Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.”

[Dean]

Everyone

You know, I found all this rather confusing and I couldn't make my mind up with what was right, and what was wrong. I would say this is due to not knowing Cactus that well and the only mods I knew where of course Caz/Codex and Josjie, so it was hard for me to just make a decision about who is actually lying and who was telling the truth. As it is for most of us, we base accusations and such on a persons personality and actions, annoyingly I didn't know the people involved that well.

However with the evidence shown I couldn't just not make a decision and decided the right thing to do, was to support Cactus who, as you can clearly see in his personal PM's to Josjie, truly cares about UESP and 'all' of it's members. Caz and Codex never show that sort of love towards the site or anyone else, and they proceeded to go against the forum rules themselves and ban Cactus without consulting the whole team about it. That in my opinion shows cowardice and a refusal to work like the 'moderating team' should.

I find myself each day on the UESP seeing mass amounts of off-topic posts and just general banter getting out of hand, and not until 5 hours later (or sometimes longer) is something done about it. Generally it is someone in the community that has to sort the mess out, countless times I've had to do it myself, and that should not be anyone but the moderators job to do. I'm not pointing fingers about this off-topic jargon or anything else, as most of the community know that I myself can go a bit over board and end up arguing with a fellow member sometimes. But not once does Caz and Codex get involved in this stuff, it is always left to Josjie and Leilah. The two alone can not run this site, it is to big for them to handle.

I love UESP, it is the first and only internet forum that I truly care about and would not see it damaged or hurt in any way. I would say we all love UESP in one way or another am I correct? of course I am, or no one would spend the time they do on here. Nothing is worse then seeing a big part of the community die on here. Many older members, that where the reason I joined this site due to them being down to Earth and being generally top notch, have left after being disgruntled at the way the forum is being handled or are becoming less active as they realise that there UESP family is breaking apart by the seams.

I also like the new members, and some I would say are the reason I come on here to see because I care what you all have to say and sometimes I get a good laugh out of it, hell some of you I would call my friends. But without proper guidance by moderators and older, more experienced members, people don't know what is acceptable and what is not.

But to you all, I ask that you think about the evidence, really think about it and decide what you, not anyone else, but you think of all this. Every opinion is worth its weight in gold.

It's all about finding your part in UESP, but that is not always easy when you are left blind.

If you Caz and Codex can't do the job properly on UESP that you where given, then why do you still try to? Why can't you let go of the power? If you truly care for UESP you would do what is right for it and not see it crumble away like yesterday's news.

[RobotNixon]

I appreciate this thread, and that there's people looking out for the little guy.

Thank you Josjie, and everyone else that went into making this announcement.

Garrus: "I'm right behind you."

I feel guilty that I don't have anything more to say,
but I have a habit of making things more "passionate" than they have to be.

Thanks again, you don't know how much this thread means to me.

[Kestral]

I appreciate this thread, and that there's people looking out for the little guy.

Thank you Josjie, and everyone else that went into making this announcement.

Garrus: "I'm right behind you."

The universe should be blowing apart at this moment, however, it isn't.

I support this fully.

[Dean]

Thank you for the comment Nixon, I mean that

[Jpot]

We do appreciate the support. Thank you. It means a lot to us.

[RobotNixon]

I'd like to apologize to r.

I know he probably isn't reading this, but he didn't deserve what I said to or about him.

[Josjie]

I'd like to apologize to r.

I know he probably isn't reading this, but he didn't deserve what I said to or about him.

I'm sure he appreciates that .

We all wrote this thread together. r helped a great deal. Without him, I think we wouldn't be here. I think he'll read this, just not right now. Timezones huh .

[RobotNixon]

I hope he finds his way back here someday.

Drunk or Sober, in or out.

[Jpot]

Oh, I think he will, if this thread produces the desired result. Along with a few other old friends, possibly. Of course, I can't make any promises on anyone's behalf.

[Spiney]

I would of been here earlier but school was in the way. But I have this to say:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Caz and Codex:

I joined this forum because I had an issue with the Oblivion CS. Even though no-one posted on it, that didn't discourage me to continue on the UESP forums. The point to which I felt I had settled in was where I offered to help with the Amber/Madness project. Which is still being worked on to this day.

I believe I was absent during this incident with Cactus and Dogmantra. All I have to influence my opinion is the pages of information and evidence on what happened. And to make sure I decided the right decision I read it probably 3 or 4 times.

I didn't like what I saw. You made a decision based on a personal experience, without consent of the required others (Josjie and Dogmantra in this case). Evidence and common sense was thrown out the window. Josjie had to fight for Cactus. But in the end Cactus left, and so did Dogmantra.

All that I've seen and heard: Both of you, were absent for a lengthy period, leaving Josjie to moderate on his own. You said he wasn't part of the team, even though he had been doing all the work. I can't even think how that makes sense. And yes you both have agreed to be more active, but I still seldom see you on.

You say your busy. You say your digging. You say your stressed. Please just swallow your pride and stand down. All these excuses just make think of kid who hasn't done his assignment. Fabricating excuses to keep in the clear that little longer.

In my most honest opinion: You aren't fit to be moderators. Look, I may just be one person. One voice amidst the fray. I could probably theorise what your thinking about me when you read this. But then again, I'm not alone in my decision.

The UESP is a unique forum. Where no-one judges. Where you can discuss things other than the topic games. Where there are threads about all sorts of things. Where people can spell for Cheeses sake.

I don't want that to disappear. So please. Do whats right.

[Veck]

I've been on this forum for four months. I didn't get to read the glorious "golden age" of Cactus and Dogmantra, and I barely know many of the people here. But in this forum, I found things other forums lack- a friendly atmosphere, decent members and real, solid discussions on many different things. But unfortunately, I also see something lacking in this forum- a good moderation team. When I joined, I quickly became aware of a mod named Josjie. It took quite a while before I saw the first posts from Codex. I only became aware of the very existence of Caz after I delved into the General forums a month after joining. I had of course associated the mods with different things; in Josjie I saw the active mod who often went out of his way to help people with their problems and try to make the experience better for everyone. Regrettably, I saw in Caz and Codex two people who occasionally posted the odd "Topic people" and very rarely contributed to the community.

Caz, Codex, I see you as great people. I think you're friendly, funny, a real asset as members of the forum. But I just don't really see you as moderators. I harbor no dislike towards you; hell, there's nobody on this forum I dislike. But I'm afraid I don't see you as good moderators for this forum. What upsets me is that you basically left Josjie on his own for so long. That's forgivable, as is your inactivity and lack of "human" contributions, but there are only so many times we can forgive you.

A while ago, I was informed of the business with Cactus, and I was both shocked and disappointed. I did not see you as aggressors or rule breakers, but unfortunately the unnecessary banning and your actions on the moderator forum give me no other option than to see you as such. Don't get me wrong, I see you both as friendly and reasonable people, which is why I would like to see you continue in our community as members. But the evidence presented here proves that you are not careful or active enough to continue as moderators. I hope you make the right choice and peacefully resign.

We are all truly sorry that it had to come to this. We are doing this not for personaal reasons, but for the good of the entire forum. I hope you will judge us as such.

[Leilah]

Hello there everybody. While, as you have stated, this thread is not aimed at me in any way (and I thank you for that), I still feel that, as a new moderator, and as part of the community, I shouldn't ignore this thread.

I'm not active on any other forums. I don't know what they're like, how they're moderated, or anything, really. This is because I am so at home here. It saddens me to find that members here are still unhappy, and I would like to do what I can to improve that. While I will not say anything further about Caz and Codex, as neither of them have been anything but friendly to me, I will comment on other issues.

I had no idea that a mod ought to post 5-6 times a day, but now that I do, and since it really won't be all that hard, I will endeavour to do so.

As for moderator activity in "The Arts" and "Lore", since I read and write I'll try to post in "The Arts" more. For "Lore, please just give me until middle November. At this point I'm working full time as well as studying, and while I do have enough time to post here, there isn't enough time to research lore as well.

As to anybody wishing to contact me, my time zone is GMT+2, and I get online as much as possible between 8am and 10pm. I have MSN, I'll attach the details to my profile, so if anybody has a quick question or just wants to chat to me there, I'm usually on during the specified times, just allow for some stuff I have to do, like eat I'm also always available via PM. I promise. No amount of exams or work will keep me from responding to your PMs as quickly as humanly possible.

[Dean]

Seeming your so new to the whole Moderating game Leilah you shouldn't worry about it to much, but dedication like that is great for everyone involved. A post like yours, a willingness and the actual thought to 'want' to be part of the community is commendable.

Thank you for posting, I thought you would.

[Josjie]

Thank you for your reply Leilah. It means a lot to us .

[Shadow]

Dear UESP Mods.
This is kind of like Spiney's post in a way, I'm expressing my thoughts on what's been said. Please do not take offence, I mean no bad towards you. This is just my opinion, purely my opinion and nothing else.
So I joined the forums in September 2009. Not even a hello from me, I pulled up on the forums and started posting.
I wasn't really noticed at first, my posts not so intelligent. Most of the time ignored in fact. This is what happens when a newbie comes along, in a way he has to prove himself worth. After about 2 weeks, I found the Welcomes & Goodbyes Thread, where I was welcomed. It shows that at UESP, you say hi to everyone and they will respect you. Now I am happy here, the only forum I use, and a few e-friends. Now my views on the big post:
Cactus, was banned. Simple as. Reason was he hacked someones account. Now, he got falsely accused of threatening that user by Caz and banned by Caz and Codex. If I read the post correctly, Cactus was defending Caz. If I am right there, Cactus ' position should of been properly discussed, not decided by TWO of the FOUR others. That said, if I had a whole part in this as a mod, I would of said that Cactus step down as a mod, but not be banned. That's just my opinion, as isn't it against the rules to hack someone on here? I believe so, but a mod doing it is disgraceful. If Cactus had a personal problem with that member, he should of rightly confronted him. Like I said, I am only speaking from what's in front of me. It may seem that I'm babying you with this, but the mods need to be a team, they need to be using each others opinions and putting them into one big decision to do what's right. All said, I respectfully agree with most of the topic said here but respectfully disagree with Cactus still keeping his mod position. Also, yes this is a bit of a downtime for UESP, like some people say, the forums are dying, the members are leaving. Well the mods job is to bring new people here. And it is time for the more senior members to take up the role of people who left, like r for example.
Like Spiney says, the UESP is a unique community, it's where people come to have a laugh about and questioning TES and life itself. So I don't want that to disappear either, do what's right for us. With the help of the community.

[Veck]

Cactus did hack an account, and doing it was wrong. The issue is that Caz banned him without consulting any other mods except for Codex, despite the fact that all mods must discuss something like banning a member before doing so. In the words of Dogmantra himself, they're a team. Caz neglected to even inform Josjie and Dogmantra about the banning before she did it, let alone discuss it with them. The fact that Cactus did admit to hacking the account means that he should have suffered some reparations, but this was not properly discussed. Caz remained adamant that they should have left him banned, Codex and Ratwar simply agreed with her, leaving Josjie and Dogmantra as the only people realising that regardless of what Cactus did, he was banned without the mods agreeing. That, in my eyes, is unacceptable. But this topic isn't focused on Cactus; he's not here, he's not an issue at this time and his situation was resolved anyway. It's about Caz and Codex making the right decision.

[Dean]

@ShadowWarrior:

First of thank you for the well thought out post.

Yes Cactus admits to hacking one of the members accounts, but the fact of the matter is he admitted this to the other mods by himself a month before he was banned. The person who he had hacked knew he did it and didn't actually care, the matter was settled as the member didn't press charges. Forum's work like a court.

Cactus felt bad about doing it, really bad and apologised to everyone involved, hell he didn't even read the guys PM's because he felt so bad with himself literally as soon as he did I. And from just reading the posts he makes and seeing the type of person he is, well I believe him when he says he regrets it.

It may of not been a clever move by Cactus but at least he didn't do any harm, I see no reason why he should not be allowed to continue as a mod after settling everything respectably and efficiently.
It was only a month later when the member got personally annoyed with Cactus, nothing to do with the UESP mind you, that Caz and Cactus decided to ban him 'by themselves', not by consulting the whole of the moderator team as should be in any case. Not a good job of moderating there, and threads where made to stab the guy in the back on the moderator forums. Everything is so professional isn't it?

To top it off Caz and Codex inactivity for the past year is worrying, and you can check if you want there post rate, surely they should be moderating the board and being part of the community not posting once every now and then or telling someone off? If you can't do the job, you quit. Simple as that.
Cactus was a big part of the community and someone like that being thrown away and treated like dirt is disgraceful.

[KalleFlaxx]

Dear Forum.

I'm a new member on this forum, and I'm loving it. Since I've only been here for about a month (I think), I wasn't here during the forum's 'Golden Age', nor during it's downfall. So I had no idea that things like this had happened here. I've heard people mention Cactus, Dogmantra and r a couple of times, and they seem like nice people and it would be awesome if they came back.
I have nothing personal against Caz or Codex, but from what I've read here, they aren't fit as moderators. Caz have apparently been saying that she's stressed and things like that, but doesn't that mean she should resign from being a mod, at least until she has her life sorted out enough to be able to spend enough time here to act as a good mod?

What I really would like to see is a new 'Golden Age' on this forum, but unfortunately I don't really know what I should do to contribute. I try my best to be a good part of this forum, I follow the rules as much as I can, and I do my best to not start fights or go off-topic.

What I'm saying is, I try to contribute to the forum, I try to be helpful to people who need help, although it's hard since most people on here knows more about The Elder Scrolls than I do, and I don't want new people (like myself) to feel unwelcome, or old members to leave. I want to make the forum a better place, but it's difficult for a new member to make a difference.

I don't know if this post matter, or if anyone will read it, but I just wanted to tell you what I think about all this.

[Dean]

I don't know if this post matter, or if anyone will read it, but I just wanted to tell you what I think about all this

Everyone's post matters equally on this. So I hope everyone understands that there view will be considered.

And the fact that you wrote:

I have nothing personal against Caz or Codex, but from what I've read here, they aren't fit as moderators. Caz have apparently been saying that she's stressed and things like that, but doesn't that mean she should resign from being a mod, at least until she has her life sorted out enough to be able to spend enough time here to act as a good mod?

means that you see the problem aswell despite being relatively new to this forum.

Thank you for your input.

[Josjie]

Dear Forum.

I'm a new member on this forum, and I'm loving it. Since I've only been here for about a month (I think), I wasn't here during the forum's 'Golden Age', nor during it's downfall. So I had no idea that things like this had happened here. I've heard people mention Cactus, Dogmantra and r a couple of times, and they seem like nice people and it would be awesome if they came back.
I have nothing personal against Caz or Codex, but from what I've read here, they aren't fit as moderators. Caz have apparently been saying that she's stressed and things like that, but doesn't that mean she should resign from being a mod, at least until she has her life sorted out enough to be able to spend enough time here to act as a good mod?

What I really would like to see is a new 'Golden Age' on this forum, but unfortunately I don't really know what I should do to contribute. I try my best to be a good part of this forum, I follow the rules as much as I can, and I do my best to not start fights or go off-topic.

What I'm saying is, I try to contribute to the forum, I try to be helpful to people who need help, although it's hard since most people on here knows more about The Elder Scrolls than I do, and I don't want new people (like myself) to feel unwelcome, or old members to leave. I want to make the forum a better place, but it's difficult for a new member to make a difference.

I don't know if this post matter, or if anyone will read it, but I just wanted to tell you what I think about all this.

Thanks for your reply. Every reply matters here .

When this is all over, I promise that I'll do my best to bring that "Golden Age" back and help out all the new members (by explaining the new forum rules and with some suggestions).

[Biotechnic]

This post gets my Mega Zord Seal of Approval.

[Dean]

This post gets my Mega Zord Seal of Approval.

That's an interesting way of approving something

[The Raven]

Before this, I thought as Caz and Codex as normal, good moderators.

Now that I've been shown all stuff that's been happening behind the scenes, my view of them has changed. Drastically.
I do not think you as the good mods you once were. You're only on a few minutes every few days.
This is not enough, IMO.
As Josjie mentioned, Caz's only had 500 posts in a year? Including General posts?
I was really surprised. Definitely not enough. I also dislike the fact that you treated Dogmantra like crap. He deserves better.

And the whole Cactus fiasco could've been avoided if you acted like a team.
All in all: I think you should step down as moderators. Swallow your pride, as Spiney said, and pass the moderator-ship to someone worth it.