The Tribunal Temple

[r]

I thought I'd throw this thread open because I've always found their attitudes and stances towards a lot of things quite interesting.

Most Tribunal seniors are zealous to the point where it is actually posing a threat - look at the persecution of the Nerevarine for the perfect example. Had the Temple not been hindering him and telling everyone that he really should be killed, and actually helped him instead by getting Wraithguard from Vivec, tooling up the Ordinators and marching on Red Mountain then Dagoth Ur would have been defeated quite easily. Since the Ordinators are that most dangerous thing, a religious warrior, I'm sure that they could easily have taken down Dagoth Ur, especially when some randomer who appeared on a boat one day managed to do it by hitting things with a hammer.

I've always thought the Temple are taking this zero-tolerance policy to inspire fear in people to disguise the fact that the Tribunal are failing - Vivec is powerless to do anything other than maintain the Ghostfence and depending on how you look at the timings the other two might be dead...

[Dlarsh]

I think there may be more to it than that. The Tribunal had been hunting down potential Nerevarines for years (decades/centuries?) prior to the fall of Dagoth Ur and two thirds of the Tribunal. I always thought it was because they were afraid that Nerevar's incarnations would try to avenge his death if left to their own devices, and they would keep coming until revenge was taken.

[Cactus]

I dunno if they were worried about revenge. I mean, it wasn't the idea so much of the actual Tribunal as the priests, the Tribunal just didn't bother saying anything against it. Besides, Vivec insinuated post-MQ that you very well might kill him, and didn't particularly seem to care. Besides, why would they be afraid of vengeance anyway? That assumes guilt and I always figured the Tribunal didn't kill him. Vivec's version of the story certainly didn't paint it that way, and I feel inclined to believe his account.

I figure they persecuted the false, and eventually real, incarnates because they represented a truth the Temple couldn't admit to--the Tribunal were "false." Presumably if the prophecy about the reincarnation of the Nerevar was true, then that means the Tribunal were false gods, mortals posing as gods through the corrupt power that gave Dagoth Ur, and the truth was simply too painful.

I worded that a bit poorly, so I'll use a real-world example. Before I go on, I neither imply I believe nor disbelieve the following.
An idea that's come up over the year has said that Jesus had children, got married, etc. A lot of Christians are nearly violently opposed to this. Why? Because it humanizes him, makes him mortal, implies he can make mistakes and has the same faults and lusts normal humans have. He's been so lifted up on a pedestal a lot of people can't handle the thought of his being portrayed the same as everyone else, which is kind of funny because I always figured that was the point of his existence to begin with.

So, that's how I see it. The Nerevarine being true implies everything else is true, which paints the Tribunal in a less-than-perfect light, and the followers and priests of the Temple simply can't handle that their gods might not be the perfect selfless beings they believe in. Which is kind of funny since a large part of the popularity of the Tribunal is that they're "real" and that they were once mortal, and that they can be seen and theoretically touched and spoken to, unlike the other gods.

[King Acunasti]

Maybe the Tribunal "gods" were right to keep themselves out of the situation. The coming of the Nerevarine may not have only meant the fall of Dagoth Ur, but also the fall of all false gods. Whether or not this is true, Dagoth was an extremely powerful being. The Ordinators, as powerful as they may be, probably wouldn't be able to do it, considering the confusion of the ruins, the Ash Vampires, and even the noises. Their numbers would've been heavily decreased by the time they reached Dagoth.

Also, the Tribunal may not have sent aid to Nerevar reborn for fear of a repeat of history. There might have been one - just one - , or even more Ordinators who may have gone to terrible lengths to get the Tools and use the Heart to become gods as well. If the Tribunal could pull it off, why not an Ordinator or two?

And the Nerevarine is highly powerful as well. He possessed the Tools, and was favored by Azura. Such strengths could've easily wiped Dagoth from the face of the earth.

[kertaw48]

I think that the zeal of Temple is justified...
Vivec himself explained how the Ghostfence worked...
Bones of the ancestors + faith of the people

If the people began worshipping something else than the Tribunal, if they stopped supporting the Ghostfence with their prayers, then neither the Nerevarine nor all the saints could save Vvardenfell from Dagoth's onslaught...

They most certainly were not false gods...
They meddled in the affairs of mortals far more often than even the Daedra...
No god has protected a nation as many times as they had...

[PineconeKing]

out of all these convincing stories, i'd have to believe King Acunasti. not favouring him, though, and i know i have no right to judge, and since i never played morrowind i am out of my depth. well, i have morrowind but haven't even completed the first blades assignment. i think that basically, temple sees it's power being torn away as the ashlanders create a new nereverine, and to make sure it wasn't the REAL one, they killed him. once the new one appeared, and didn't die, they thought the monsters and vampires would kill him. please correct me if i'm wrong. FLYIN, FLYIN IN THE SKY, CLIFF RACERS FLY SO HIGH, FLYIN..... i hate sudan...

[r]

I suppose the end of Morrowind's storyline

Spoiler:

does see the destruction of the Heart of Lorkhan

which the Tribunal draw their power from, like Dagoth Ur. Ending the storyline does liberate the Tribunal of some responsibility, like

Spoiler:

the maintenance of the Ghostfence

but also removes the source of their divine power...

[kertaw48]

Yeah, with the destruction of the Heart, there realy is no need for them anymore...

But still, they will be remebered as saints...

[r]

Yeah, with the destruction of the Heart, there realy is no need for them anymore...

Well, they're still sort of 'needed' as figureheads of the Almsivi religion. Although I suspect that in the future, after the events of Morrowind, the Dunmer population will become quite disillusioned with the Almsivi after the revelation that people acting in their name were trying to persecute the Nerevarine.

[kertaw48]

Don't worry, they'll be worshipped for eternity...

It's called cult of personality...

[Vivec's Tears]

Don't worry, they'll be worshipped for eternity...

It's called cult of personality...

Says who? If you've finished

Spoiler:

Tribunal and the main quest of Morrowind, it's possible they're all dead.

[kertaw48]

Well, worshipped not as gods, but rather as saints...

[Vivec's Tears]

Well, worshipped not as gods, but rather as saints...

That doesn't make any sense. Once the Nerevarine came, the people had "time to adjust" and whatnot, the Tribunal were gone. I doubt anyone would worship them anymore. At the

Spoiler:

end of the expansion packs, it seems pretty clear that the old Daedra were already starting to take the place of the Tribunal.

Since the Tribunal (er, what's left of them) were pretty much gone after the

Spoiler:

MQs,

they don't really count as gods anymore.

As Vivec says at the end,

"All mortals must die someday. And we are all mortal now."

[Masser]

I like to take the stance that the Tribunal disliked the Nerevarine because he both symbolized the end of their reign, and the relative ease with which he defeated Dagoth Ur even though he/she is mortal. I imagine that within two or three generations the religion based on the Almsivi will be dismissed as a relic of the past, although culturally it may be possible the influence of the Tribunal would still exist.

[RegalNerd]

I think that with all the good Almalexia, Sotha Sil, and Vivec did I think that they will still be remembered more as heros or saints more than gods, as Vivec said in Morrowind. and the Tribunal will devolve back into the dunmers original religion, Daedra worship and Ancestor worship.

[r]

On a related note, I wonder what would happen to Almsivi Intervention if the Tribunal Temple dissolved? How many adventurers would want to see the religion reinstated so that they didn't have to constantly walk back to the nearest big town from a Legion fort or Pelagiad every time they were coming back from a bout of adventuring?

[kertaw48]

I think that with all the good Almalexia, Sotha Sil, and Vivec did I think that they will still be remembered more as heros or saints more than gods, as Vivec said in Morrowind. and the Tribunal will devolve back into the dunmers original religion, Daedra worship and Ancestor worship.

Yep, they'll become higher saints much like St. Veloth and St. Nerevar...
But, worship of saints will still remain, after all they are the ancestor of Dunmer...

Ona more negative note, Tribunal Temple will remain because I don't think it's priesthood will give away their power so easily...

On a related note, I wonder what would happen to Almsivi Intervention if the Tribunal Temple dissolved? How many adventurers would want to see the religion reinstated so that they didn't have to constantly walk back to the nearest big town from a Legion fort or Pelagiad every time they were coming back from a bout of adventuring?

OMG!
Haven't even thought of that!
But since there is no Divine Intervention in oblivion I suppose those spells will disappear in time...