Look at this please

[Juggernaut Mudcrab]

and let's get a ruling on whether or not glitching is cheating.

As Elites in Tes4, I expect that our judgment would matter here.


Read whole thread. It's rather ridonculous and shows how stupid the gamefaqs boards are.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessa ... c=49526984

[Sanguine]

Are those people serious? Dupeing not cheating? That is stupid of course it is. On the part about not knowing wether or not the developers wanted it to be in the game, they patched the arrow version so I'm pretty sure they didn't want it in there, and if they did want it in the game there would be some sort of clue in-game.

Edit: This is just my oppinion from the first page.

Edit: Edit: How the hell did that make it twelve pages without getting locked?

[SwedishBerzerker]

Are those people serious? Dupeing not cheating? That is stupid of course it is. On the part about not knowing wether or not the developers wanted it to be in the game, they patched the arrow version so I'm pretty sure they didn't want it in there, and if they did want it in the game there would be some sort of clue in-game.

Edit: This is just my oppinion from the first page.

Edit: Edit: How the hell did that make it twelve pages without getting locked?

True, plus gamefaqs.com is only good for FAQs (although uesp.net is of course better when it comes to Oblivion which is too big to write a FAQ for). If you want forums, you should aim for the professional people. Gamefaqs-people are universally experienced players, on forums.uesp.net most users have played all TES-games, and pretty much every user is deeply experienced in Oblivion.

EDIT: On topic, "yes", because any help is cheating, whether it's an official cheatcode or a bug not on purpose.

[Dragour]

Personally I don't think exploiting a glitch is cheating, it is simply exploiting a glitch, which is just as bad as cheating, sometimes worse.
There are two negatives when maniplulating the game to your will or likes, one is cheating, two is exploiting a glitch.

Ps, I don't exploit glitches or use cheats myself, they have ruined far too many games for me

[weka]

Three yrs of this argument and it still goes on....

I'm not votin, cause as I've often said before I don't consider anything cheating when it's a game that you play as a single player, and play purely for your own enjoyment.

So what if some people like to do things in their game that others wouldn't even consider. Who cares? And who's business is it, but the player involved, what anyone does in their own game?

As far as I'm concerned, however anyone plays to get the most out of the game for themselves, good luck to them!

And for people who say "cheatin has ruined games for me", take responsibility for your own actions and try some self-restraint.

P.S. Juggernaut, could you use better subject titles in future pls?

[Juggernaut Mudcrab]

^ If you promise not to use that whip on me, then yes I will.

[Cactus]

Actually, if making titles like that means you're using your whip, I'm about to make about three dozen of them.

[Dragour]

Actually, if making titles like that means you're using your whip, I'm about to make about three dozen of them.

... ... I could swear you were the one talking about how this is a family forum

[Blue the Thief]

Actually, if making titles like that means you're using your whip, I'm about to make about three dozen of them.

THANKS for that, I've now been scared for life.

AGAIN.

But yeah, it's cheating, but it's your choice to use it or not

Except in a team game, in which case: Stay the *^#( away from them!

[Cactus]

... ... I could swear you were the one talking about how this is a family forum

You're absolutely right.. I apologize for that remark. As an excuse, I put forth the fact that I'm up WAY past my bedtime.

Though you have to admit, it was hilarious.

[Dark Lord Cam]

Three yrs of this argument and it still goes on....

I'm not votin, cause as I've often said before I don't consider anything cheating when it's a game that you play as a single player, and play purely for your own enjoyment.

So what if some people like to do things in their game that others wouldn't even consider. Who cares? And who's business is it, but the player involved, what anyone does in their own game?

As far as I'm concerned, however anyone plays to get the most out of the game for themselves, good luck to them!

And for people who say "cheatin has ruined games for me", take responsibility for your own actions and try some self-restraint.

P.S. Juggernaut, could you use better subject titles in future pls?

i agree with you

nothing is cheating if you are the only one playing.

EDIT: you guys will not believe the things that come out of cactus on MSN

that last comment was child's play compared to what he actually does say.

[Leilah]

nothing is cheating if you are the only one playing.

For me, cheating means that you're disobeying the rules set by the game, which you do if you're glitching, so I feel that glitching is cheating. It just doesn't affect others if you're playing on your own.

[weka]

For me, cheating means that you're disobeying the rules set by the game, which you do if you're glitching, so I feel that glitching is cheating. It just doesn't affect others if you're playing on your own.

But that's the point. The game doesn't set any rules.

At least not that I've seen? It doesn't say, "don't do this, don't try that". They specifically put in things like the console. The dup glitch was left in, even though the most commonly known one was eventually removed.

I don't even ever remember seein "using glitches will invalidate such and such" with Ob?

The only rules you're working by are the ones that you've imposed yourself.

It is a single-player game, purely for the enjoyment of each player. One of the things that so many people repeatedly say that they love about Ob is it's freedom. And yet the same people often come here and then try and impose artificial restrictions on it for other players.

I say, everyone just get on and play exactly how you like, and just enjoy the fun of lovin such a wonderfully open game!

[Sanguine]

For me, cheating means that you're disobeying the rules set by the game, which you do if you're glitching, so I feel that glitching is cheating. It just doesn't affect others if you're playing on your own.

But that's the point. The game doesn't set any rules.

At least not that I've seen? It doesn't say, "don't do this, don't try that". They specifically put in things like the console. The dup glitch was left in, even though the most commonly known one was eventually removed.

I don't even ever remember seein "using glitches will invalidate such and such" with Ob?

The only rules you're working by are the ones that you've imposed yourself.

It is a single-player game, purely for the enjoyment of each player. One of the things that so many people repeatedly say that they love about Ob is it's freedom. And yet the same people often come here and then try and impose artificial restrictions on it for other players.

I say, everyone just get on and play exactly how you like, and just enjoy the fun of lovin such a wonderfully open game!

I feel similarly to this I don't see anything wrong with glitching it is a one person rpg after all glitch away if you want(I will often use the dupe glitch to aid in my role plays.) But I still see it as cheating as you are exploiting a flaw in the games programing. But I don't place any stigma on it.

[hollywoodb1]

It IS cheating, however, due to the fact that it is single player it really doesn't matter. I did not find any glitches until after the first few run-throughs of the game, so I was pretty much able to experience it without, and when I looked up info on the game, I saw a few. I use 'em now pretty often, but for roleplaying purposes. Specifically for the Dupe cheat/glitch: earn money for self made quests.

I can understand each side's argument, but the middle point: If you enjoy a game more with cheats/glitches, (and it is single player of course) then there is no "cheating." It is just getting more out of your game.

[Leilah]

For me, cheating means that you're disobeying the rules set by the game, which you do if you're glitching, so I feel that glitching is cheating. It just doesn't affect others if you're playing on your own.

But that's the point. The game doesn't set any rules.

At least not that I've seen? It doesn't say, "don't do this, don't try that". They specifically put in things like the console. The dup glitch was left in, even though the most commonly known one was eventually removed.

I don't even ever remember seein "using glitches will invalidate such and such" with Ob?

The only rules you're working by are the ones that you've imposed yourself.

It is a single-player game, purely for the enjoyment of each player. One of the things that so many people repeatedly say that they love about Ob is it's freedom. And yet the same people often come here and then try and impose artificial restrictions on it for other players.

I say, everyone just get on and play exactly how you like, and just enjoy the fun of lovin such a wonderfully open game!

I feel similarly to this I don't see anything wrong with glitching it is a one person rpg after all glitch away if you want(I will often use the dupe glitch to aid in my role plays.) But I still see it as cheating as you are exploiting a flaw in the games programing. But I don't place any stigma on it.

I consider the rules of the game to be things like whacking people with a hammer repeatedly to kill them, rather than opening the console, clicking on them and typing "kill". The rules are implied, like most social rules, they're not laws or anything, but it is accepted to abide by them.

Also, I don't actually care about cheating or glitching, I sometimes use both, but I still cosider it to be cheating. It doesn't actually matter, but still, it's cheating.

[nyk45]

Ermm, in my humble opinion there's no cheating on single player games. If there's a glitch, it's up to you to use it or not, but you don't gain any kind of avantage over other people.

Besides, you mostly play for fun, and by taking an easy route, you're losing most of it.

You're free to use it, and I don't consider it cheating. If a game implies rules that aren't really there, they are set by each player him/herself.

And if you do use a glitch in your advantage, you're obviously not breaking the rules you set yourself.

I mean, it seems like people feel obliged to play the long way for the fun, and then are angry at those who take the short way. It's supposed to be fun, and fun comes in different ways for different people.

[Dogmantra]

Duping, I would say, is cheating. Just like using the console is. That doesn't mean it's bad.

Really, cheating on a single player game doesn't do any harm, and if the player enjoys it more that way, then good. I've used cheats before on really tough bits in games, because I'm enjoying the story.

Of course, if you just cheat your way past everything without even trying, that's like cheating at solitaire: pointless.

[Immortal NPC]

Personally, I think if you glitch in Oblivion, it's not that big of a deal-- but honestly, don't lie to yourself and try to pass it off like you're not cheating. If they patched all the little things like permanent bound armor, that really wouldn't matter to me. It's not intended to be in the game, we, as players find the holes in the game and exploit them.

You know what's funny, too? All those people on the other board were all saying that glitching isn't cheating because the developers put it in the game... REALLY?! Why would you release a game with glitches?! They don't do it on purpose! And the funniest part is that "cheats" (you know, the ones actually put into the game purposely) I wouldn't consider it cheating because you can't use them in multiplayer games, and they usually just consist of things like "big head mode". lol

[Calm_Mind]

Oh, this is an age-old argument... exploiting glitches I consider as taking advantage of the game in ways that weren't intended to be, therefore is cheating. I do use them however, but I have one save where I've worked through the game using no console commands, no cheats/glitch exploits etc, and one save to maximise enjoyment by using the console to get the best stuff, lock adoring fan in a dungeon, enchant him with chameleon and send him off running and try to hunt him down etc...

If you're using duping etc as a means for an easier life on your part when trying to complete the game, then in my eyes it's cheating, no way around it. If you need cash, raid Rockmilk Cave a few times, don't use the console to dupe Varla Stones for Christ's sake. It takes all the enjoyment out of getting random enchanted items etc. Then again, if you're duping stuff, you won't really care about using the console either and would probably add all the enchanted items you could ever need to your inventory straight away.

[Brass Petals]

i only cheat when i have/want to...as im playing by myself i don't consider it cheating but it does make it too easy so i try not to do it alot. generally i only use the duping glitch to get the skingrad house.

im only cheating myself and no one is going to care about that. i know someone is going to be angry at my opinion but oh well....

i only hate cheating when its used against other players as that is NOT fair.

[m@nyt1mes]

it can be, it can not be. it is cheating to copy a goblin staff right out of the gate just to buy the house in skingrad.

it is not cheating when you have over 500K and dont want to travel all over the world to buy repair hammers.

[Juggernaut Mudcrab]

Personally, I think if you glitch in Oblivion, it's not that big of a deal-- but honestly, don't lie to yourself and try to pass it off like you're not cheating. If they patched all the little things like permanent bound armor, that really wouldn't matter to me. It's not intended to be in the game, we, as players find the holes in the game and exploit them.

You know what's funny, too? All those people on the other board were all saying that glitching isn't cheating because the developers put it in the game... REALLY?! Why would you release a game with glitches?! They don't do it on purpose! And the funniest part is that "cheats" (you know, the ones actually put into the game purposely) I wouldn't consider it cheating because you can't use them in multiplayer games, and they usually just consist of things like "big head mode". lol

This.

Honestly, there is no real moral connection with cheating on this game. It's okay if you cheat and it's okay if you don't, but please, do not attempt to argue that using a certain exploit (or whatever you wanna call it) is not cheating.

As an off-hand reference to what is cheating and what isn't, I refer to the manual. Besides that, if I can't acomplish something through normal gameplay and I have to go to another extent in order to accomplish something, such as in Super Mario Bros where you jumped on top of the ceiling in the second level and accessed the warp pipes, then it is cheating. Period.

Based on what has been said in the past month, it is cheating. Thus, this topic is officially over.