mage vs warrior vs sneak

The Chad · Post by **The Chad** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:51 pm

Kaelan Corvinus wrote:Warriors cannot hit what they cant see.

I disagree fully with this statement.

AzNmamba · Post by **AzNmamba** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:14 pm

The Chad wrote:
Kaelan Corvinus wrote:Warriors cannot hit what they cant see.
I disagree fully with this statement.

i definitely agree(with you chad), if a warrior was right next to a mage and the mage use a invisibility spell, it doesn't mean that the warrior cant just keep hacking and slashing at where he just saw the mage...

The Ninja · Post by **The Ninja** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:08 am

If you took these stats then put the characters in REAL LIFE, then an expert archer could definetly shoot multiple arrows and beat the mage.

gibson · Post by **gibson** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:16 am

The Ninja wrote:If you took these stats then put the characters in REAL LIFE, then an expert archer could definetly shoot multiple arrows and beat the mage.

Theres no magic in real life so obviously

Dogmantra · Post by **Dogmantra** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:24 am

The Ninja wrote:If you took these stats then put the characters in REAL LIFE, then an expert archer could definetly shoot multiple arrows and beat the mage.

You can't really say that.
Apart from anything, most experts can't agree what intelligence is, let alone what "65 Intelligence" means...

AzNmamba · Post by **AzNmamba** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:30 am

oh, i know! their SAT.... wait never mind... that means if somebody had 60 intelligence.. they would kinda be like forrest gump

The Chad · Post by **The Chad** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:39 am

Doctor Meaticus wrote:
I said the mage would help the warrior FIND the thief... not bring him down... The stereotypical warrior is, actually, not smart. Charging recklessly into battle without regard for his safety is EXACTLY the kind of thing he'd do. Also, poison is an element of the sneak. The warrior wouldn't have a handy dandy silence potion on him.

And finally, if the caster is aware of the sneak's location, then so is his summon. Mage = Winner.

Keep in mind that sneaks and warriors have only their specialities at their disposal. A mage has a virtually infinite array of spells to fling at the opposition. Sure, you can say my scenario was inaccurate. It probably WAS inaccurate. But the final result of the competition will always be the mage coming out on top.

The warrior wouldn't accept help. And honestly, on my warrior characters, I always have poisons ready to take down mages, if not, a silencing enchanted weapon. The way you're looking at it is making the mage more prepared than the thief or warrior, therefore, a biased opinion.
Yes, a mage does have spells at his disposal.
Alteration- shield, basically his armor. Not much else for a fight in an arena and certainly not anything that gives a definate advantage over the other 2. If he does cast a powerful enough shield spell (giving him the 85 armor max like the other 2 do) it'll probably make a decent dent in his magicka.
Mysticism- detect life for finding that sneaker. nothing else. And in a fight, the thief is most likely to let the warrior run at the mage and 2 prong the mage with arrows, seeing him as the more deadly opponent.
Illusion- charm, worthless. Frenzy? again, worthless. Calm or command? perhaps, but there are always dispell potions and also also level requirements requiring a lot of magicka, and hitting both at the same time can be troublesome. Chameleon or invisibility? Doing anything will afterwards will practically give away their location for at least a second. The warrior loves swinging around randomly, he's got best fatigue regeneration. Thief will just hide and wait for an oppurtunity. Demoralize? It'll make them run, but it won't make them die.
Restoration- Healing and boosting stats and skills. Can end up eating magicka though.
Destruction- Obviously he'll be slinging his best spells which probably eat up plenty of magicka as well.
Conjuration- A warrior and thief at high levels can easily take down a random daedra or 2. Or just ignore it and go for the frail summoner behind like we all often do.
Alchemy- Have fun making potions with arrows being shot at you and a frantic guy waving a sword at you. doest have the best strength and that appartus isn't weightless, now is it? Not to mention the ingredients and the potions themselves.

Mage characters are better against the AI due to their limited intelligence and inability to cope with different situations. Against a well experience player who's used to this game? It's an even fight.

AzNmamba · Post by **AzNmamba** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:44 am

The Chad wrote:
Doctor Meaticus wrote:
I said the mage would help the warrior FIND the thief... not bring him down... The stereotypical warrior is, actually, not smart. Charging recklessly into battle without regard for his safety is EXACTLY the kind of thing he'd do. Also, poison is an element of the sneak. The warrior wouldn't have a handy dandy silence potion on him.

And finally, if the caster is aware of the sneak's location, then so is his summon. Mage = Winner.

Keep in mind that sneaks and warriors have only their specialities at their disposal. A mage has a virtually infinite array of spells to fling at the opposition. Sure, you can say my scenario was inaccurate. It probably WAS inaccurate. But the final result of the competition will always be the mage coming out on top.
The warrior wouldn't accept help. And honestly, on my warrior characters, I always have poisons ready to take down mages, if not, a silencing enchanted weapon. The way you're looking at it is making the mage more prepared than the thief or warrior, therefore, a biased opinion.
Yes, a mage does have spells at his disposal.
Alteration- shield, basically his armor. Not much else for a fight in an arena and certainly not anything that gives a definate advantage over the other 2. If he does cast a powerful enough shield spell (giving him the 85 armor max like the other 2 do) it'll probably make a decent dent in his magicka.
Mysticism- detect life for finding that sneaker. nothing else. And in a fight, the thief is most likely to let the warrior run at the mage and 2 prong the mage with arrows, seeing him as the more deadly opponent.
Illusion- charm, worthless. Frenzy? again, worthless. Calm or command? perhaps, but there are always dispell potions and also also level requirements requiring a lot of magicka, and hitting both at the same time can be troublesome. Chameleon or invisibility? Doing anything will afterwards will practically give away their location for at least a second. The warrior loves swinging around randomly, he's got best fatigue regeneration. Thief will just hide and wait for an oppurtunity. Demoralize? It'll make them run, but it won't make them die.
Restoration- Healing and boosting stats and skills. Can end up eating magicka though.
Destruction- Obviously he'll be slinging his best spells which probably eat up plenty of magicka as well.
Conjuration- A warrior and thief at high levels can easily take down a random daedra or 2. Or just ignore it and go for the frail summoner behind like we all often do.
Alchemy- Have fun making potions with arrows being shot at you and a frantic guy waving a sword at you. doest have the best strength and that appartus isn't weightless, now is it? Not to mention the ingredients and the potions themselves.

Mage characters are better against the AI due to their limited intelligence and ability to cope with different situations. Against a well experience player who's used to this game? It's an even fight.

all i have to say is: well said

The Chad · Post by **The Chad** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:49 am

AzNmamba wrote:oh, i know! their SAT.... wait never mind... that means if somebody had 60 intelligence.. they would kinda be like forrest gump

"Intelligence" is a hard thing to describe. Ask a scientist about quantum physics. He'll teach you. Ask a fashion designer? Not so much.
Now ask that scientist about fashion. Guess what happens?
Intelligence is a tricky thing. I'd have to say Intelligence in this refers to how much said character studied magickal things. The intelligence based schools? Alchemy (knowing about plants so you can use their affects to your advantage), Conjuration (Knowing about undead and daedra so you can summon them), and Mysticism (Knowing about everything around you and how you can manipulate them using magicka)
My warrior with 30 intelligence probably knows more about war and fighting than that mage with 80 intelligence.

AzNmamba · Post by **AzNmamba** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:04 am

yep! anyways, warrior also has the highest endurance... a warrior with 650 health and 100 in all fighting skills and strength vs. a mage with 200 health and 100 intelligence, and magic things...i think the warrior would win......

shadow_of_sithis · Post by **shadow_of_sithis** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:49 am

sneak is much funner because you can kill youre enemies without them or anyone else knowing. its like this i popped a hobo in the head and the othe npcsw didnt run away screaming MURDER MURDER cause i was sneaking.

The Ninja · Post by **The Ninja** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:24 am

I love doing that, sithis.

Josjie · Post by **Josjie** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:20 pm

AzNmamba wrote:yep! anyways, warrior also has the highest endurance... a warrior with 650 health and 100 in all fighting skills and strength vs. a mage with 200 health and 100 intelligence, and magic things...i think the warrior would win......

That's not true.

The Mage can use spells to increase his Health as well.

Symmachus · Post by **Symmachus** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:49 pm

to think that the thief is winning...i mean, warriors are physically strong and mages powerful and flexible...but thieves?? Their best bet is that nobody sees them during the fight. If it were to take place in the Arena say...

Mattbott · Post by **Mattbott** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:21 pm

3 parts warrior, 2 parts sneak, 1 part magic

doesnt matter how much magic or sneaking you do, you eventually have to hit something

The Ninja · Post by **The Ninja** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:10 pm

Symmachus wrote:to think that the thief is winning...i mean, warriors are physically strong and mages powerful and flexible...but thieves?? Their best bet is that nobody sees them during the fight. If it were to take place in the Arena say...

We say "Theif" because it is the only all-stealth class. Their major weapon is the bow, which is hard to defend against when enchanted arrows/ arrows with poison are flying at you continuously, or they aren't until it is a one crucial moment that you can't dodge or block. If the warrior ran at the "Thief" then he would get shot down before he reached him. But the Mage versus the "Theif"... I say theif would win because of his speed, and cunning.

Sanguine · Post by **Sanguine** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:16 pm

The Ninja wrote:
Symmachus wrote:to think that the thief is winning...i mean, warriors are physically strong and mages powerful and flexible...but thieves?? Their best bet is that nobody sees them during the fight. If it were to take place in the Arena say...
We say "Theif" because it is the only all-stealth class. Their major weapon is the bow, which is hard to defend against when enchanted arrows/ arrows with poison are flying at you continuously, or they aren't until it is a one crucial moment that you can't dodge or block. If the warrior ran at the "Thief" then he would get shot down before he reached him. But the Mage versus the "Theif"... I say theif would win because of his speed, and cunning.

Ya the theif is more cunning then the mage

The Ninja · Post by **The Ninja** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:17 pm

It's true! The mage has more Intellegence in facts and what-not, but the "Thief" has more battle experience and is can easily out-wit the mage through pure experience.

Josjie · Post by **Josjie** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:44 pm

Wtf..

The thief has more experience? What kind of experience? Stealing stuff?
While the mage has spent months and months in the Arcane University, studying, practicing...?

Sure, the Thief can fire some arrows at the mage. But the mage can shoot fireballs and shooting fireballs is much quicker than shooting arrows.

If you think logically, the only conclusion is that the mage will win. Sure, you can say: "the thief runs with the speed of light and backstabs the mage" or "the warrior performs his ultra super kick", but if you think realistically, you realise that the mage can anticipate on the thief and warrior's actions, and will thus win every fight against them.

Saying the thief will win because he has more experience is unfair, we're talking about a situation here where all three of them got the same amount of experience, the same level etc.

The Raven · Post by **The Raven** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:18 pm

These discussions are weird.

They're like "I like Warriors, so warriors = I.W.I.N buttonTM"
"Nowai! I like Thieves, so thieves = I.W.I.N button TM"
"OMGZ WTFZ MAGEZ R I.W.I.N BUTTON SO MAGES IS übr 31337."

And you're like "Mages can drink potions = I.W.I.N buttonTM"
BUT! Drinking a potion takes time. First you have to take it from your backpack/where you might have hidden it, then drink it.

That's when the Thief/Warrior will strike. Unless you have paralyzed them first, of course.

What I'm trying to say is, that mages, thieves and warriors are way too overrated. You think too gameplay wise, where you cast a spell by the click of a button.
IRL(in my mind) you have to concentrate a big enough amount of magicka, then release it. Of course, the more experienced mage would have no problems, the less experienced mage might spend some more time creating the spell.

What's annoying me is, that because you prefer one class, you're thinking like "Because i like this class, it's the best".

Just my opinion.

Mattbott · Post by **Mattbott** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:20 pm

do you allow the warrior magical items? If so he will win

do you allow the mage unlimited magica restoration? if so, he will win

do you allow the thief the opportunity for the poisonous sneak attack and escape? if so, he will win

Even if we generated three characters one of each 'type' and had them perform a variety of identical tests under differing conditions, including fighting each other to the death, it still wouldn't answer the question cos it's not specific enough.

this can only end in argument and inevitable locking. And not the type of locking that a thief might be able to undo

x0 RG 0x · Post by **x0 RG 0x** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:20 pm

just shoot the stupid apprentice of the mage with an arrow of immoliation, enchanted bow with feet enchantment designed fr one shot kills. feet enchantement kills mage+apprentice (or even the beast he was fighting with) because opponent or follower of mage is less experienced. Also this is a critical moment. How he enchanted the bow? thieves have contacts, so also in the arcane university

Josjie · Post by **Josjie** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:34 pm

The Raven wrote:These discussions are weird.

They're like "I like Mages, so mages = I.W.I.N buttonTM

Who says I prefer Mages?

Most of my characters were mages, but not because I prefer mages. I've had some trouble creating a good one a while back.

IMO, nothing beats a stealth shot out of the dark, or a backstab with your trusty knife.

But in Oblivion, Mages are better.

just shoot the stupid apprentice of the mage with an arrow of immoliation, enchanted bow with feet enchantment designed fr one shot kills. feet enchantement kills mage+apprentice (or even the beast he was fighting with) because opponent or follower of mage is less experienced. Also this is a critical moment. How he enchanted the bow? thieves have contacts, so also in the arcane university

Again, why "less experienced?"

And it's LAME to say that the "thief has contacts who can enchant the bow for him". If you're allowed to say that, I can say: "The mage has contacts who can learn him how to do a stealth shot with x10 damage." So that's just rubbish.

And as a mage, you don't have to summon a creature.

Mage vs. Thief battle
Mage has spells with a wide radius of damage.
Thief has arrows with a wide radius of damage.
Both the mage and thief do not have much health.

1) Mage fortifies his health.
2) Thief equips bow and some arrows and uses a poison.
3) Mage spams shock/fire/frost attacks with a high radius.
4) Thief shoots at the mage with arrows with a high radius attack.

- The Mage has more health.
- Spells are more difficult to avoid.
- Spells are quicker than arrows.
Mage wins.
Simple as that.

do you allow the warrior magical items? If so he will win

Why? The mage can use magical items too

do you allow the mage unlimited magica restoration? if so, he will win

do you allow the thief the opportunity for the poisonous sneak attack and escape? if so, he will win

Again, why? I think we've already made clear that the mage owns the thief. He can track him down with Night-Eye/Light/Detect Life and spells are quicker than arrows. And the mage can fortifies his Speed, Sneak skill and Health.

Even if we generated three characters one of each 'type' and had them perform a variety of identical tests under differing conditions, including fighting each other to the death, it still wouldn't answer the question cos it's not specific enough.

True. But on the first page of this topic I already said this question has no answer. And still this discussion keeps going on and on because some people like thieves/warriors and want them to win, even though they won't.

I like thieves/warriors too. I prefer a Wood Elf thief over a Breton Mage. But still, the Breton will win.

x0 RG 0x · Post by **x0 RG 0x** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:43 pm

wait I just wanted to join the random fun. But are spells quicker than arrows? Great, now I have to train my destruction from 30-100

The Chad · Post by **The Chad** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:55 pm

josjie wrote:Wtf..

The thief has more experience? What kind of experience? Stealing stuff?
While the mage has spent months and months in the Arcane University, studying, practicing...?

Sure, the Thief can fire some arrows at the mage. But the mage can shoot fireballs and shooting fireballs is much quicker than shooting arrows.

If you think logically, the only conclusion is that the mage will win. Sure, you can say: "the thief runs with the speed of light and backstabs the mage" or "the warrior performs his ultra super kick", but if you think realistically, you realise that the mage can anticipate on the thief and warrior's actions, and will thus win every fight against them.

Saying the thief will win because he has more experience is unfair, we're talking about a situation here where all three of them got the same amount of experience, the same level etc.

Right, there are plenty of arrow shooting machines and swordswinging lunatics for the mage to practice avoiding the in university.
Warrior and Thief can anticipate as well, the thief especially using arrows.

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mage vs warrior vs sneak

who would win?