Why are Necromancers evil?

Belthazor · Post by **Belthazor** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:06 pm

Hi!

So, I was wondering, since necromancy is only illegal in Morrowind, why is it that necromancers in Cyrodill are such bad guys, who want to kill everyone? It doesn't make sense to me. When I'm in the Mages Guild, I'm supposed to kill them and get Fame for that. I get Fame for killing people, who do nothing illegal.

So, what do you think about that? Is it a logical mistake by Bethesda or is there another reason?

doobious · Post by **doobious** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:14 pm

There are several resons why necromacers are evil, also you might want to keep in mind the necromancy isnt illigal in cyrodil. A, they kill people to fill there black soul gems. B, if Oblivion was real Zombies wouldnt be made out of magika theyd be made out of people. C, they're responsible for the death of many mages in the guild (kinda mean spirited dont you think? Accutally its kinda EVIL! :twisted: ) But thats it.

Belthazor · Post by **Belthazor** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:27 pm

I don't think you got my point. Yes, they are acting evil and killing people. My question is, why are they doing it, if necromancy itself is considered legal in Cyrodil. After all, necromancy is not about killing people, it's about reanimating and working with the dead. They can make zombies out of people who are already dead. They don't need to kill them first.

Again, why are necromancers supposed to be evil, if necromancy is legal?

Quiglesigles · Post by **Quiglesigles** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:01 pm

it is not really evil but they kill lots of people so they ae considered evil.

Zavrith · Post by **Zavrith** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:50 pm

I figure that it's all about power. Necromancers take up their craft for the power behind it. Up until the...

**********SPOILERS********

Up until the arrival of Mannimarco, they didn't have any reason to kill people because they didn't want to make any enemies really. If you find them in caves or what not before you start the mages guild quest, I've always assumed that they're afraid you'll attack them, which is why they attack you (after all, how often do you sneak attack bandits without giving them a chance to say "Wait, I'm cool with you being here!")

But with the arrival of Mannimarco, they're looking for some revenge for being expelled from the mages guild, and they want the artifacts that are kept safe within the mages guild for themselves, which is why they begin trying killing them and trying to take the mages out.

As for why it's okay to kill them before you join the mages guild...they practice in secret since public opinion is against them. Thusly, no guards are hanging around to see the crime and you get away with it.

In Vilvern, no one can hear you scream

(at least this is the justification that I've come up with)

Dark_Chris76 · Post by **Dark_Chris76** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:23 pm

There not evil, just there methods are thought to be evil. But im sure the Mages Guild has killed just as many necromancers as they have Mages Guild

Zavrith · Post by **Zavrith** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:32 pm

Hehehe, being the Arch-Mage I know that I have :twisted:

Matthias · Post by **Matthias** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:07 pm

Belthazor wrote:When I'm in the Mages Guild, I'm supposed to kill them and get Fame for that. I get Fame for killing people, who do nothing illegal.

So, what do you think about that? Is it a logical mistake by Bethesda or is there another reason?

I would say that the fact that the Mage Guild has outlawed it within their own ranks is enough of a justification to gain fame for killing them if you're part of the Guild. You're upholding the Guild's own standards.

doobious · Post by **doobious** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:15 pm

Belthazor wrote:...it's about reanimating and working with the dead. They can make zombies out of people who are already dead. They don't need to kill them first.

Mabey its just me but i think thats pretty f**ked up.

Baker007 · Post by **Baker007** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:02 am

Belthazor wrote: After all, necromancy is not about killing people, it's about reanimating and working with the dead.

Why the heck do you think they are ranimating and working with the dead? TO CREATE AN UNDEAD ARMY TO KILL PEOPLE OF COURSE!!!

Matthias · Post by **Matthias** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:06 am

Baker007 wrote:
Belthazor wrote: After all, necromancy is not about killing people, it's about reanimating and working with the dead.
Why the heck do you think they are ranimating and working with the dead? TO CREATE AN UNDEAD ARMY TO KILL PEOPLE OF COURSE!!!

They could just need a fourth for bridge.

Seriously, though, his point is that it is legal in the region. If they were just killing people to kill other people, you would think it would be not.

Zionprophecy · Post by **Zionprophecy** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:11 pm

WEllllllll to conjur another being is considered being a necromancer....me and my friends we're talking about it, and all of them are "evil" in the game itself, so technically all the mages and yourself are practicing necromancy....unless its a different view in this game.

bradleemilk · Post by **bradleemilk** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:22 pm

Zionprophecy wrote:WEllllllll to conjur another being is considered being a necromancer....me and my friends we're talking about it, and all of them are "evil" in the game itself, so technically all the mages and yourself are practicing necromancy....unless its a different view in this game.

But your saying conjuring is the same form as necromancy... conjuration is summoning the undead from other realms and necromancy is creating undead.

Viper1 · Post by **Viper1** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:55 pm

Zionprophecy wrote:WEllllllll to conjur another being is considered being a necromancer....me and my friends we're talking about it, and all of them are "evil" in the game itself, so technically all the mages and yourself are practicing necromancy....unless its a different view in this game.

necromancy is more about reanimating the dead, which disturbs the spirit of that being in the afterlife, hence why people say rest-in-peace. A necromancer is essencially disturbing that peaceful rest. Conjuration is about summoning otherworldly spirits into the human realm and has nothing to do with the use of corpses. The way I see it, conjuration can be either good or evil depending on what it is that you're summoning. Summoning demons from oblivion to attack innocent civilians is evil, but summoning spirits from the realm of the gods to combat oblivion hordes is good. However, practicing necromancy to reanimate the dead is always evil.

Belthazor · Post by **Belthazor** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:04 pm

Viper1 wrote:However, practicing necromancy to reanimate the dead is always evil.

Why is it legal then?

ace62394 · Post by **ace62394** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:36 pm

Matthias wrote:
Baker007 wrote:
Belthazor wrote: After all, necromancy is not about killing people, it's about reanimating and working with the dead.
Why the heck do you think they are ranimating and working with the dead? TO CREATE AN UNDEAD ARMY TO KILL PEOPLE OF COURSE!!!
They could just need a fourth for bridge.

Seriously, though, his point is that it is legal in the region. If they were just killing people to kill other people, you would think it would be not.

i made a pyramid!!!!

CAESAR · Post by **CAESAR** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:51 pm

I myself have always considered necromancy and conjuration to be the same. Belthazor, am I right when I state you personally don't find any problem with necromancy. As for Oblivion's rules, who knows why they did it that way. Heck, their was slavery in Vvardenfell, but not in Tamriel. I liked my slaves. Why is it wrong to suck someone's blood, but not wrong to conjure demons? Why is it wrong to be a necromancer, but fine to summon an army of monsters? Who knows

It's a Bethesda thing, I guess.

apploud · Post by **apploud** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:58 pm

Summoning a creature to serve you from the demon realm....and using necromancy to reanimate a dead body are different....only necromancy is wrong/evil

Moo · Post by **Moo** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:23 pm

bradleemilk wrote:
Zionprophecy wrote:WEllllllll to conjur another being is considered being a necromancer....me and my friends we're talking about it, and all of them are "evil" in the game itself, so technically all the mages and yourself are practicing necromancy....unless its a different view in this game.
But your saying conjuring is the same form as necromancy... conjuration is summoning the undead from other realms and necromancy is creating undead.

Only in relative terms. What in TES we call conjuration is in fact necromancy; necromancy is formally the practice of summoning spirits for guidance. What is displayed in TES, and in most fiction, is an erroneous depiction of necromancy similar to how the idea of witches was distorted heavily. To be fair, Conjuration and Necromancy are one and the same. Oblivion merely separates the two by coming from the angle that in Tamriel one conjures creatures from Oblivion whilst Necromancy is practiced on the deceased. The definition is misleading and erroneous but it's common among fantasy titles.

Morally speaking, the enslavement of a Daedra's spawn for the purpose (usually) of defending one's self or to attack others is no better or worse than conjuring the deceased. What the mortal Mannimarco did was different; he abused Necromancy in order to fulfill his own goals. Of course I say this as a practitioner of necromancy so I'm biased.

Zavrith · Post by **Zavrith** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:22 pm

That argument on necromancy reminds me of Morrowind...

CAESAR · Post by **CAESAR** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:34 pm

You are completely right Moo. Necromancy and Conjuration are one and the same. TES just didn't understand or chose not to understand the likeness of the two arts. They should both be considered right or wrong in Oblivion since they are essentially the same.

Zavrith · Post by **Zavrith** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:06 pm

I dunno, I think slavery is a little less evil than defiling the dead.

CAESAR · Post by **CAESAR** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:23 pm

I just used the slavery thing as a comparison.

bradleemilk · Post by **bradleemilk** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:12 pm

Belthazor wrote:
Why is it legal then?

its not, thats why the mages guild are also trying to stop necromancers.

Matthias · Post by **Matthias** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:42 pm

bradleemilk wrote:
Belthazor wrote:
Why is it legal then?
its not, thats why the mages guild are also trying to stop necromancers.

It is legal. The mages guild is trying to stop the necromancers because it's the decision of Archmage Traven (or don't you listen to any rumors when you talk to any mage).

It's more like wearing a T-shirt is legal, but if you want to work at a McDonald's you have to wear their shirt, even though society would let you wear a T-shirt anywhere else. And that's the point of this thread.

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