“Stolen” tag on gold

[Satribe]

I chose to look at cabbages. Bread is plentiful in Riverwood, but you don’t find it outside and unowned. I thought I’d go with potatoes, but when I took potatoes from the plants behind the inn it gave them a refID that started with “ff” which I have learned is a newly created instance. So I chose cabbage because it already had placed instances in the cart behind the inn and the cart in front of the Riverwood Trader.

Turns out to my surprise, when you take an item it does not put that instance in your inventory. It hides that instance from the game, and creates a new instance in your inventory.

So. I took the four cabbage from the cart behind the inn. I dropped them on the ground and put them in order numerically by refID. They were all newly created instances with ID’s starting with “ff”. For simplicity I’ll call them 1, 2, 3, and 4. The first Time I picked them up and dropped them the ID’s remained 1,2,3,4.However the next time I picked up 2 then 3 then 1 then 4. But when I dropped them I had 2,3,5,6.
This caught me off guard so I don’t have clear record of the order I was picking them up, but each time I tried, an old instance disappeared and a new one was created. Often creating 4 new instances.

I began to theorize this may be why you can’t view the various refIDs stored in a stack of items in the world or even in your inventory with console commands, perhaps it isn’t tracking all instances, but rather tracking; “<Cabbage><quantity=60><Stolen quantity=12>” Then only creating new instances as you place them back into the world. Now at least the first time, it placed the same four instances I picked up; so that theory is wrong or it is a combination and your theory was correct about there being some threshold when it switches from tracking each instance, to tracking quantity only.

[bsammon]

I expect you're familiar with the "have a follower take all from a container--now they own it" issue. Do you know how to trigger it, and now to fix it consistently? (I thought I knew how to fix it, but now I'm not completely sure) And you've noticed how if you drop an owned-by-your-follower item on the floor and pick it up in front of your follower, they'll make a comment (something like "hey, that's mine!"), but if you drop a stolen-from-someone-else item and pick it up in front of your follower, they say nothing?

It'd be interesting to try having one owned-by-your-follower item and one stolen-from-someone-else item in the same stack, and do some of these experiments.

Oddly, the last time I experimented with owned-by-your-follower, I put a stolen-from-someone-else into a container, and asked my follower to take everything from that container. After this, my follower started caring when I picked this item up from the floor, suggesting it had acquired a "owned by your follower" tag. But I couldn't get it un-stolen after this, making me wonder if it had both the stolen-from-someone-else and the owned-by-your-follower tags.

[bsammon]

On a related topic, yesterday I was trying to sort out my leather-strips situation. I had >100 leather strips, some unknown number of which were marked as stolen. I wanted to arrange things so that next time I visited the smithing workshop, I would only be carrying "stolen" leather strips in my leather-strip pile, so I could be sure that any leather strips I used would decrease my stolen-good count.

Pursuant to that, I was dropping leather strips all over the floor of my house, trying to sort the stolen ones from the not-stolen ones. It was interesting to see that when I dropped 70 (non-stolen) leather strips, they would appear as one stack on the floor, but when I dropped 72 non-stolen leather strips, it would drop a stack of 70 and a stack of 2. When I dropped a stack of between 6 and 10 stolen leather strips, sometimes they would appear as one stack, and sometimes they would appear as a bunch of separate items.

[Satribe]

I did little testing, but based on some research and testing this seems correct.

I used my current playthrough. I know I have a lot of lockpicks, but several are stolen. I went inside Dragonsreach, in Whiterun and dropped all 92 on the floor at once. 1 single stack of 85 non-stolen, 1 single non-stolen, and 6 individual stolen. Based on previous testing, I believe the single non-stolen was one “taken from a friend” (previously would have been “steal”, but modified to “take” after befriending).

I really want to type out the whole story, because my adventure was funny, but I have to work my last 10 of my 60hr week, so I’ll just highlight.

Uthgerd, from the Inn in Whiterun (You fist-fight to make her a follower); Whenever I put non-stolen items in the 3 barrels outside the inn stacked like a pyramid, she turns them stolen. I think it has more to do with the barrels than the follower, though I haven’t tested differences between followers willing to commit crimes and those averse. After these Items were marked stolen, I could not get her to unmark them.

The special thing I noticed about the barrels: even though the items show stolen in my inventory, when inside the barrel they are marked white (not red) like “free to take”.

I had her retrieve “all” my lockpicks and now I hade a single stack of “stolen”. I’ve read that to avoid this you should only have a follower take from a container in your home. But after traveling to my home she did’t remove the stolen tag during my test; though it did drop as a stack of 85 “stolen” and several individual “stolen”.

I read one post where the guy stated the tag can be removed in the player home, but he had different results based on various containers. He then mentioned he 100% fixed it in a chest belonging to Farengar in Dragonsreach. I had a theory why this worked for him and traveled to my “friend” Alvor in Riverwood. I placed all the lockpicks in a chest.

In “this” chest, the stolen lockpicks were labeled in “red”.

At this point, I had switched from Uthgerd to my housecarl from Falkreath, but again, I believe it has to do with this red lettering inside the chest. After she took the items out of the chest, NONE of my lockpicks were stolen.
EDIT 23Mar2026 The red lettering might help determine which chests this work, but the red lettering is part of the disposition system which already has bugs. It’s red because the dollar amount is higher than the faction will allow for taking items. But if you put your own high dollar item inside, it will also be red, though no crime is reported for taking items out. /EDIT

I traveled to Whiterun and punched a guard. NONE of the lockpicks were confiscated.

Someone commented that they become stolen because there were witnesses, but that is unconfirmed. I’d be willing to bet that non-owned containers will cause non-stolen items to become stolen and friend’s containers that show the stolen items in “red” will have the stolen tracking removed.

[Satribe]

I came across a page where some modders were discussing a problem. I found these comments helpful:

a problem i have tried to solve more than once. how to get an object's info, any unique, identifiable info, from within a container namely Player's inventory

no native functions will work on the item in the inventory because its not really an item when its in the inventory, just an index in a linked list.

EDIT 30MAR2026 What I got from the first quote was confirmation of thinking of the player and NPCs as if they were containers. /EDIT

I discovered the “drop” command actually allows me to drop individual coins.

I also discovered that in the console, the drop command drops the non-stolen items first and then the stolen. While in the game if you drop items, the stolen items get dropped first. Eating or using or placing in containers will use the stolen items first, but purchasing will use the non-stolen first. This was also tested with cabbage to rule out issues with gold.
EDIT 23Mar2026
When purchasing, the stolen gold was used last.
/EDIT

This was on a new character and I consider this normal game behavior. I have seen exceptions, but generally these are after much time has passed with a character and you can no longer remember all the things that have happened. There are known issues that can add a stolen tag, and some that can remove them, so it can be difficult to do accurate testing when you can’t see all the flags associated with an item or remember it’s history.

EDIT 22MAR2026
I went to the cart behind the inn in Riverwood and used a console command “setownership” to set one of the cabbages to the Hod and Gerder’s house faction. It then became marked “Steal Cabbage”. (l’m not currently friends) I also set one cabbage’s ownership to the Alvor’s house faction. It also now said “Steal”, even though I am already friends. I’ve read that the stolen tag is linked to faction ownership, not specific NPC’s. I had become friends with Alvor because I followed the Imperial out of Helgen. When I waited several days it automatically made me friends, even though I had not finished the dialogue with Alvor and he stayed in his house all day. I went in and chose the option to ask if he had anything I could take (which is more commonly the timeframe you become friends), and now the cabbage I set to the house faction became free for me to take. Considering this previously affected items in my inventory it seems rather than the game checking to see if you are friends, the act of becoming friends causes a global action to remove that faction’s ownership from any items retaining it. In the possible “factions”options, some are described as being assigned to NPC’s after you become friends which is what causes their dialogue and options to change. Because in many cases you can become friends with various NPC’s to gain access to items tagged with that same faction’s ownership, and because “setownership” can also be set to a specific NPC, I believe this is why some items are not free to take after befriending. Becoming friends removes the associated “Faction” ownership, but specific NPC ownership remains and the “Steal” tag appears.
EDIT 25Mar2026 While it’s still possible that ownership is changed rather than removed, the known difference is based on value of the item and controlled by their disposition. /EDIT

If I cause a coin-purse to spawn in the world it behaves like all others with a random amount of gold when you take it. If I spawn it inside a house it is automatically set to the particular house faction.

I have been working off this theory that there are a possibility of 3 pieces of info attached to stolen items. 1. Show stolen tag 2. Retain who item was stolen from 3. Determine if confiscated by guards. But I realize now, that was before I knew that viewing the stolen tag is based on a single item based on the sorting; and when a coin is changed by befriending an NPC, it loses it’s ownership causing it to no longer say “stolen”, but it will continue to be sorted with the current “stolen” items. This is what causes a stack of items that may contain a stolen item to show up without the tag. I’m rambling because I’m tired. — my point: “faction ownership” accounts for all of it.

• {Is item owned by any faction?}
  • {If “NO’, nothing happens}
  • {If “YES”, “stolen” tag appears, confiscation happens, Mercenaries hired by owner may track you down.

I previously wrote that the follower “take all” bug caused things to be unmarked as stolen, yet they were confiscated. I also said I had one item unmarked, could sell to merchants, yet it would be confiscated. To be sure of the above conclusion, I’ll need to test again,

A few hours later…
If you steal an item and you later befriend someone of the faction that owns the item, the item will have its stolen status removed. I actually posted about this earlier but wasn’t connecting all the dots. Those items can be glitchy. Like not having a stolen tag (even as the only one in inventory), yet it still may be confiscated by a guard as stolen. It may show red when in a container. The followers can cause their own slew of bugs whenever you have them take or carry items, but this “partial” stolen effect seems to be caused by the “befriending after stealing” issue.

And finally for today… if it’s red in a container that means stealing…right? Well…it’s supposed to. There is also your disposition with the NPC. The higher the disposition the higher the dollar amount of items you can take after befriending. That’s why after befriending you will see various items that are still labeled in red. Unfortunately this disposition thing apparently only checks once and then locks in at this price. That should mean once you see an item in a container that is red, it will remain red regardless of any future raising of the disposition. This also seems to apply itself to any item you place in the container. If the disposition is locked in to that container at $30, anything of greater value that you place in that container will appear in red lettering. This fortunately only affects the color of the lettering. If you owned the item before placing in the container, you will still own it when taking it back out and no crime will be registered.
/EDIT

[Satribe]

In the Skyrim:Disposition page I learned that your disposition trait with others, determines how high a priced Item they will let you take. It mentions a type of formula that is used, but that it’s only applied the first time. If the rate starts at $25, increasing their disposition won’t change it to be higher than the first time. That is certainly not a quote, but I feel it is just as vague. I have not been able to create a test where this can be seen to change. In fact, almost EVERY location I tried was maxed at $25. If the value was greater than $25 it would be marked “Steal <item>” and if was in a container, it would also be labeled red.

At this point I want to mention that NEVER at any point, did taking a “red” labeled item cause any NPC to take notice or comment. It also never caused any of the “stealing” effects. Not marked stolen, can sell to merchants, not confiscated by guards.

On an old PS3 save, I did find that the Falkreath longhouse allowed me to take items up to $100.
EDIT 24Mar2026 Also my spouse let’s me take items up to $500. This is on the LE version and matches UESP. …also my Fast Travel loading screens last 45 sec. Good ‘Ol PS3. /EDIT

My running theory is that I was Thane of Falkreath before doing the Civil War quest. At that point I did things incrementally to become Thane so it was a process and probably set my “allowed to take” value at $25. This matches my current PS4 playthrough. However, on the PS3, I proceeded to finish the civil war which instantly changed various Jarls. When the new Regime took over I was “INSTANTLY” thane which set the “allowed to take” value at the higher rate of $100, because there was no lower disposition to cause the lower take value.

[Satribe]

Considering the discussion floating that there may be some type of threshold within stacks where they are no longer tracked as individual items; I found this interesting. It may amount to nothing, but I thought it noteworthy. There is a bug with followers picking up a stack of items but only having a single item when you try to retrieve it. But there is a note on the wiki that clarifies a specific limit.

Drop items to be picked up in stacks of 5 or less. If they are dropped in stacks of 6 or more they will only pick up one of the item, and the rest will be lost. They can pick up multiple stacks of 5 or less.

[Satribe]

I read a comment from a modder that when an item gets moved from the game world and placed into a container or inventory the original instance is destroyed and only the data is stored: something like; 4 apples, 2 stolen. Using the command console to view the RefIDs, this is mostly true. For apparent respawning purposes, a cabbage will show a certain RefId, but once you take it into your inventory and later drop it on the ground, the RefId will change. Specifically to an ID that begins “ff”. If you put it back into your inventory and immediately drop it again. It will retain the same RefID. Therefore for certain limited circumstances, the real world instance is still tracked in inventory. However, simply walking through a door or placing it in another container and even the order in which you pick up multiple items can cause the RefID to be completely different the next time you check. This supports the comment of items being stored only as a data list and created new each time you drop them back into the world space. I previously determined that not only does the data store how many are stolen, but also “from whom” they were stolen. I theorized that rather than being multiple data stores such as 1 flag for stolen and 1 flag for ‘stolen from whom”, that faction ownership would automatically address multiple factors. If it belongs to faction “x”, then it is, stolen, susceptible to confiscation by guards and you are subject to hired thugs being sent.
I now believe this to be true for “owner” rather than “faction”. But faction still plays a part due to “disposition”.
When an item has a set owner, your disposition with them determines if the item can be taken rather than stolen. If you interact with another NPC your faction ranking may increase which will increase your disposition with other faction members.
My current theory is that rather than saving data that you have 4 apples, 2 of which are stolen; the data saved is; 4 apples, 1 of which belongs to Alvor and 1 of which belongs to Hod. (My experiments testing gold marked “stolen” has shown that the inventory kept track of at least three specific owners.) This could also account for why, when dropping multiple items you will sometimes get a single stack, but other times you have multiple piles. It’s possible the piles reflect multiple owners. But this is speculation.

[Satribe]

I have a theory that I want to test. I believe that certain stackable items may behave like individual coins. If you steal them from containers, they don’t track who they’re stolen from but if you’re still an individual item off the countertop that gets fully marked and tracked.
EDIT 24Sept2026 This is why you have multiple stacks when you drop them. Items that are stolen from the same person will stack together. /EDIT

[Satribe]

EDIT 24Sept2026

[/I have a theory that I want to test. I believe that certain stackable items may behave like individual coins. If you steal them from containers, they don’t track who they’re stolen from but if you steal an individual item off the countertop, then that gets fully marked and tracked.
This is why you have multiple stacks when you drop them. Items that are stolen from the same person or stack together.

I need to stop trying to edit with my phone.

It is difficult to find items like arrows or lockpicks in containers. I started testing with other items and realized only stealing gold from containers are not marked “Stolen” I am now satisfied that the only significance between gold and other items, is that when you take/steal gold from a container the game runs a check to see if it has a stolen flag and removes it. One problem is that the check somehow checks the owner of the container and removes that owner specifically. If I steal a loose coin on the table it will be marked “Stolen”. If I place it in a container and take it back out the “Stolen” tag will be removed; so long as the owner of the tag matches the owner of the gold.” If I go to another house or the container is owned by someone else, the “Stolen” tag remains.
/EDIT