What did you do in Arena today?

[SeaGtGruff]

Okay, I backed up my Nord Healer's saved games and restored my Breton Knight's saved games.

The item of Regeneration that he found is (are?) Gauntlets of Regeneration, and they can be bought for 50045 gold at ___'s Quality Provisions in Alten Markmont, Black Marsh.

I'm also seeing other pieces of armor listed in the UESPWiki which are items of Regeneration, such as two listings for Steel Helm of Regeneration, an Iron Pauldron (L) of Regeneration, a Dwarven Pauldron (L) of Regeneration, a Steel Cuirass of Regeneration, a Greaves of Regeneration, four listings for Boots of Regeneration, and a Dwarven Boots of Regeneration.

There are no weapons of any type listed in the UESPWiki which are items of Regeneration. But there are shields of Regeneration-- two listings for Buckler of Regeneration, a Silver Buckler of Regeneration, two listings for Kite Shield of Regeneration, and a Silver Kite Shield of Regeneration.

So it looks like Regeneration might be an enchantment that's normally put on pieces of armor or on shields rather than on weapons.

In later Elder Scrolls games the enchantment might function "automatically," similar to way magical items which boost the various stats work in Arena; but I'm pretty sure that in Arena you must "use" an item to cast its associated spell, then cast it again later after the effect has worn off.

One advantage to using enchanted gear or other magical items to cast spells is that they can be used by any type of character, regardless of whether or not the character's class is a natural spellcaster, and regardless of whether or not a natural spellcasting character has enough spell points to cast the spell, as long as the enchanted item still contains 1 or more charges.

Even if your character is a natural spellcaster, it's a good idea to equip a mark, crystal, bracers, and ring that can be used to cast spells which might mean the difference between life and death in situations where your character is silenced, or has run out or been drained of spell points and has no more Potion of Restore Power.

Natural spellcasters can't use enchanted armor, since only plate armor can be enchanted, but they can use an enchanted shield as another way to cast spells when they're silenced or out of spell points.

And of course there are potions for "casting" certain spell effects, although there is no Potion of Regeneration or Potion of Troll's Blood in Arena.

As far as creating custom Regenerate spells with the Spellmaker, you can set the number of hit points gained to any value from 1 to 99, set the number of rounds between gains to any multiple of 5 from 5 to 60, and set the duration to either 30 or 60 rounds per level. So you can't regenerate any faster than once every 5 rounds, but you can regenerate as many as 99 hit points every 5 rounds, which would be pretty awesome! I'm going to have to make a "Super Regeneration" spell after my Nord Healer finishes her current town quest and gets back to Rimmen.

[Satribe]

I've "looked" at the spell maker, but I'm still a bit off from getting my hands into it. I still have 4 more staff pieces to collect...I think.

That's kind of funny. Because I thought my Nord seemed to be more susceptible to fire damage. But in a similar fashion, my Int (or whichever stat helps defend against magic), was still pretty low. So that, combined with my natural resistance to cold damage, It probably just "seems" like it.

An odd thing, that I keep forgetting to mention. I had a Long Bow with lightning magic. Can't remember the spell at the moment. BUT. Even though it was NEW, every use, would use like 3 or 4 uses and it would break REALLY fast when "use"ing it. I guess WOOD doesn't hold up well for magic.

Regarding a weapon of Life Steal, I'm under the impression that you must actually "use" the weapon to cast the spell

Yep, that's why I liked the Ebony Blade. It would heal you when you struck an enemy, by swinging it, rather than "use" like a spell. I didn't check if you had both options. That would be pretty sweet. Although it seemed to get damaged quickly.

I like the idea, and information, about having a different perception about monsters based on the character you are playing. Before I started playing, I watched a video where the woman recommended a Knight because of different things, so that's what I chose first. Not having to repair, or worry about paralyzation has kinda spoiled me. I found a longsword of paralyzation and a longsword of life steal pretty early on....and because I have thoroughly explored the main dungeons, going back and forth to unload my loot (causing the monsters to re-spawn,) has kept my experience up to the level of the bad guys in the dungeons. There really hasn't been any frustrating battles (maybe some early on). ---but I'm only half-way through--- Maybe I should hold that thought.

[SeaGtGruff]

I used the Spellmaker to make a Major Regeneration spell. In hindsight, I probably should have just called it Regeneration. I haven't tried it yet, but it will heal me for 99 health points every 5 rounds, for 60 rounds per level. I think I reached level 22 the other night, so if I understand what "per level" means then that would be 1320 rounds. The manual says a round is 5 seconds long. If I remember correctly, you once said that game time passes at 12 times the rate of real time, so 1 round (5 seconds of game time) equals 1 minute (60 seconds) of game time, 5 rounds would be 5 minutes of game time, and 60 rounds per level would be 1 hour of game time per level.

I'm thinking of deleting some of the premade spells I'd purchased from the Mages Guild and replacing them with my own versions. I don't even use a fifth of them anyway, but it would be nice to have a single spell for resisting everything at once (fire, frost, shock, disease, poison, etc.) while also shielding against both physical and magical damage, plus reflecting spells.

Speaking of spell reflection, my preferred method of dealing with vampires is to cast Shalidor's Mirror and back as far away from them as I can, because rather than follow me (which they might do, anyway) they'll often stay where they are and start throwing spells at me, and as long as Shalidor's Mirror is reflecting them back it doesn't take long before the vampires turn themselves into a pile of ashes.

Regarding the number of charges on a weapon, the number of charges will go down as the weapon gets worn down, even if you never cast the spell. And conversely, casting the spell will cause the weapon to wear down, even if you never swing it. For instance, if you have an enchanted dagger of Levitation that you like to equip just so you can cast Levitate, then you instantly switch back to your usual weapon, the dagger will eventually wear down and break even if you never use it as a weapon-- unless you're a Knight and can repair it yourself. I don't remember if Knights will repair all of their armor, shields, and weapons, or only the pieces which are equipped while they're resting.

[Satribe]

I haven't tested while holding extra armor - but I definitely repair ALL weapons in my inventory as a knight. .... But that's the thing with this bow. I never shot an arrow. I would have like 25 uses and I would "USE" it once and check how many were left and it would say "22". I repaired it and tested the other way around and I can shoot arrows all day long and hardly notice the damage, but If I "USE" the lightning, it doesn't take long with 3 or 4 uses for each "USE" to run it down to "0" and break. I can only cast 8 to 10 times, even though it starts with 25 uses. (can't remember actual number).

That's an awesome regeneration spell. Here: You deserve it.

[SeaGtGruff]

Regarding that Regeneration spell, I lucked out that my character is a Healer, because that means it doesn't cost as many spell points to cast healing spells or Regeneration.

I also made a Light spell that has the maximum settings, which I named Daylight. I tried it out in a city at night and it really does light everything up like daylight-- except for the sky, of course, which is still dark.

I started to make a maxed-out Resist All spell for resisting fire, frost, electricity, and everything else at the same time, but it would have cost far too many spell points to cast it.

[Satribe]

I meant to say something earlier - you were talking about having enchanted items so you could have spells at the ready. I played the first half of my game only using items I found. I didn't buy anything. Then I started only looking at stores I was already in to sell items. Now I'll sometimes go looking through all the stores in a town I'm in to see if I find anything better than what I have on. I'm really kind of a hodge-podge of items. Early on I started collecting Rings. Especially for things I don't need often, but want available. Like a Ring of Endurance and a Ring of Light. However even with my weapons, I feel like how I played Skyrim. I'd be in a battle and then "pause" to drink some potion. So now I just pause and switch weapons and items, whenever. I focused on my strength first so it wasn't long before the weight was not usually my problem, but the number of items. So I could carry several enchanted weapons of different types, and as a Knight I could repair them. That was pretty cool. I liked the rings because they seemed to hold a lot of charges, but not nearly as many as weapons hold. (of course different types of enchantments) However I ended up buying 2 Rings of Shock, because they seem to be the most effective magic for my character and stats.

Kind of a side note. I had tested earlier that if I had a "broken" weapon, it would take about 10 nights of rest and it would be back to "new". (I remember you saying something about 10 days, before I tested myself.) However it seems like at least one of my weapons doesn't repair fully in 10 days. My original testing was resting on a raised platform, and lately I'll give my items to the blacksmith for 10 days and then go rest at an inn for 10 days to repair all, but at least that one item seems to take longer. I'm really curious now if it is the item, or the type of room I'm getting, or what?

STORE SIGNS
So I finally came across another one of those signs I call "on a wall" in Evermore, High Rock at (67,19) "Bedynak's" Finest Provisions. I think you gave the answer a while back regarding signs and the brown squares in front of red doors, but this was the first time I noticed another on a wall since I had mentioned them. It's interesting to me because of how it compares to another place in the city. So at the first one, the sign looks like it is on the wall (two stories high), but there is not a brown square in front of the red door. At the other location (9,89) Dirty Cup; the sign is in the same location, but the area is empty (except for a snake charmer) and there IS a brown square in front of the door. Then I happened across (18,103) "...'s" Equipment Store, and noticed the sign in the same location and brown square, but because there wasn't a second story, the sign looks like it is floating. I had seen floating signs before, but thought there was just some graphic glitch, but now I think the following is true:

• All signs are on the right side of the door.
• If the building doesn't have two stories, it looks like it is floating (unless that corner also has a block making it look like it's flat on the wall.)
• If the business has a sign, there will be a brown square in front of the red door on the map (exception below)
• If that corner has a wall that makes it look like a sign on a wall, there won't be a brown square in front of the door. (Not 100% sure on that just yet.)
• -Future consideration - any consistency as to why certain places DON'T have signs?

Another interesting location in the same city. I found a GREY square. "What's up with that??" (114,26). It's just a cubby hole in a building, but it's supposed to be a two story building, but at the cubby, if you look up, you can see through the second story. It doesn't show up from that side.

[SeaGtGruff]

In the section on classes in the UESPWiki, it says that Knights "[a]utomatically repair gear at 10*LVL points per day," so it might be that your Knight's level wasn't high enough to fully repair that piece of gear in 10 days. This bit of information isn't given in the text descriptions for each class; it's in the table preceding the text descriptions where the best type of armor, best type of shield, usable weapons, number of spell points, skill at lock-picking, etc., are tabulated for the various classes.

I'm guessing "points" refers to the gear's condition, not to the number of spell charges, but I don't know how to see what a piece of gear's maximum points and current remaining points are.

In the text descriptions, it says that the automatic repair occurs at midnight, so when you're getting ready to rest it might be a good idea to check the time so you can be sure to rest for enough hours for midnight to pass.

That gray square sounds like a glitch. I see glitches a lot in dungeons, especially random dungeons in the wilderness, but I've never seen one in a town. My best guess about them is that some kind of problem occurs when the game is loading the data from its files, or maybe when it's "unpacking" or decoding the data, such that a cell (area at a specific map coordinate) ends up being of the wrong type. Gray squares normally mean a raised surface of some kind-- a niche in a wall, a platform in the middle of a room, a bed, a raised crawlspace or tunnel in a dungeon, etc. Glitches can also be cells that look like the right general type of cell, such as a wall, but the texture is completely different than the texture of the other cells around it. If I see a glitch in a dungeon, I think it goes away if I leave and come back.

[SeaGtGruff]

The other day I completed the Main Quest on my third full playthrough.

I've really been enjoying this character-- a Nord Healer-- because, as I've mentioned in other posts, I decided to sell off all of her armor and weapons, and have been running around in her cute magic-user's clothing killing everything with her fists, backed up by defensive and restorative spells like Shield, Light Heal, Shalidor's Mirror and Magic Mirror (a suped-up version of Shalidor's Mirror that lasts a lot longer), and Troll's Blood and Major Regeneration (a maxed-out version of Troll's Blood that lasts a lot longer).

I was killing Liches and everything else except Vampires with my fists, using Shield and Light Heal as needed to keep from dying, but in the Main Quest dungeons I eventually just cast Magic Mirror and stood back while the spell-slinging monsters killed themselves.

The Imperial Palace was a cakewalk-- although I did die several times when Magic Mirror suddenly ran out, or when I got ganged-up on by enemies that surrounded me up close by surprise. I made Jagar Tharn retreat into his cocoon with just a few well-placed punches-- and probably a good many of his own spells reflected back at him, of course.

One interesting thing that happened was entering the Imperial Palace for the first time and finding that the first level was completely visible, as can happen with random wilderness dungeons if you exit and then go back in. It might be because I'd run around the Imperial City right-clicking on all of the stores, temples, inns, and Mages Guild to add their names to the map, because those names were displayed all over the map to the first level of the Imperial Palace and I ended up having to click on each one and erase it. But I also went in and out of the Imperial City numerous times, exploring the surrounding wilderness for random dungeons before finally deciding to get the Main Quest over with, so I don't know whether that was also a factor.

Now I've gone back home to Skyrim, and am planning to travel around Tamriel at my leisure, spending a good bit of time in each city before moving on. At the moment I'm hanging out in Riverwood, having taken the road north out of the Imperial Province (via my imagination, of course, since I had to use fast travel). I've already done 4 quests for the ruler, and am now roaming the wilderness in search of random dungeons. My goal is to level up at least once more, to level 25, but I might keep playing on this character to see if I can max out her level and stats.

I'll probably be installing Daggerfall-- not the Unity version-- in a few more days so I can start on it, although I plan to keep playing Arena as well. I've watched numerous streamers play Daggerfall-- most of them play Daggerfall Unity, often with some pretty awesome-looking mods that do things like add paintings from ESO(!), or add waving grass a la Oblivion and Skyrim-- so I've already got a pretty good idea of what to expect.

[Satribe]

I thought maybe your maps showing up had to do with similar maps already being explored and therefore sort of showing up again because it was technically the same map - but that wouldn't be the case for the Imperial Palace. That's curious.

There's just something about the way you say "magic-users clothing" that strikes me funny for some reason.

Thanks for adding that post about the inaccessible palaces. I haven't noticed that yet and gives me another reason to get back in the game. I still have a couple of main quests to finish yet.

[SeaGtGruff]

I thought maybe your maps showing up had to do with similar maps already being explored and therefore sort of showing up again because it was technically the same map - but that wouldn't be the case for the Imperial Palace. That's curious.

There's just something about the way you say "magic-users clothing" that strikes me funny for some reason.

Thanks for adding that post about the inaccessible palaces. I haven't noticed that yet and gives me another reason to get back in the game. I still have a couple of main quests to finish yet.

You know the ones I mean... https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:AR-race-H ... emales.gif

It might be a few days before I start into Daggerfall. I have the original from a couple of different sources, and I want to install it manually rather than let the Bethesda or GOG launchers install it, because I want to tweak the DOSBox configuration settings to get the best results. The manual installation process is more complex than it was for the diskette version of Arena, which is probably one of the main reasons I haven't installed Daggerfall yet.

I also plan to install the CD version of Arena, as well as Daggerfall Unity. My Steam game library screen has 3 versions of Skyrim listed, so I figure it will be okay to have both Arena and Daggerfall listed twice!

[SeaGtGruff]

I met myself in Arena today. I walked up to a lady in Winterhold, asked her who she was, and she said her name was... mine. It had to happen sooner or later.

Amusingly, when I asked her who she was a second time, she said something like "I'm the Nord and you're Silla Ingmensen, or is it the other way around?"

EDIT -- Actually, I think I was mistaken. I'm pretty sure she said her name was Silla Ingmensen, whereas my name is Silla Ingmansen, so our families spell their surname differently. There's also a family who spell their surname Ingmenssen. Clearly my family's choice of spelling is superior to the others.

[Waylander Dakeyras]

First of all, sorry for my English. I have a genetic disease : I am French...

Secondly, @Ragnorrk, who are you answering to?

Thirdly, @SeaGtGruff & @Satribe, if you are still alive, I'd like to say I’m glad to see there are people as crazy as me when they play TES.

Last point : who am I ? I am a Skyrim fan, with several thousand hours of play. I heard about how Morrowind and Oblivion are good, and I plan to play them.
But, I was wondering : what about Daggerfall? And the first one : the legendary Arena?
So, just by curiosity, I decided to play to Arena, just for few hours...

And now, I think I should talk about "what I did in Arena today".
Today : nothing. I have to go back to the day of March 23, 2023, when I discovered that Arena was available for free on steam.

After a quick install, I was ready to create my character : Waylander the warrior !
I did spend few hours in the prison, after reading how to play, how to fight with a sword, and how weird is the armor lvl system (decrease when better).
Then, I decided I wanted to explore all of the first dungeon.

Few hours later, the first piece of the staff was in my possession.

First feeling : I have to save EVERY damn minute. Every kill, every "room", every loot need a save.
If you don't read the manual, you can't play. And the game is hard. But I like it.

80 hours later, Jagar Tharn was defeated. Every map of main quest dungeon was completed, Waylander had a full Ebony Armor, fighting with the Ebony Blade, on lvl 23 (28 578 543 xp, far from your 100 000 000 xp...)

I received a lot of help from a guy I was watching in a french let's play of Arena. He did explained every important mechanic on this game.

Some difficulties in game : when you are swimming, some ghost can appear on your face, and you are stuck. If you have magic object or magic class, you can kill it.
WHERE DID YOU FIND A BOAT? I want to try it!!!
Medusa gives you paralysis and tries to come close to you, but if it's impossible (wall/water/other medusa/...), the medusa gives you infinite paralysis.
The only way is to use invisible magic object/potion as a warrior.
There isn't anything on screen to tell you how long you still are protected. You have to check or wait to die to know if you still are.

Some things that make the game easier and faster : you NEED a light. Levitation is cool. Ebony Blade gives you Life Point WITHOUT having to USE weapon sort!
You hit, you gain life point. Thank you for this, so many hours regenerating were avoided because of this amazing blade.

I couldn't hit Jagar Tharn with Ebony Blade, so I looked on internet and discovered I could... hit him with my fists! And I loved it.
But, do you know if it is possible to damage him with a weapon? And how?

After that, I wanted to try mage class, and thief.
So Gandalf is looking for the 6th fragment of the staff, with over-cheated powers (lvl 16, ~ 2 300 000xp)

I did play Arena for 100 hours... (80 hours Waylander, 20 hours Gandalf).
I will try Daggerfall later, I can't stop Arena now...

[SeaGtGruff]

I'm glad you're enjoying the game! I'm doing a very leisurely playthrough for about the fourth time, because I like to explore the wilderness outside of each town looking for dungeons, and even the keeps, towers, and crypts can be fun to fight through and loot-- least so the crypts, since they're so small.

My current character is (IIRC) Level 25 already even though he's found only 2 pieces of the staff; once he finishes checking out every town in Valenwood he'll go get the 3rd piece and move on. He's a Burglar, which makes lockpicking a breeze since he has 100% chance of success, but that also means he can't wear anything better than leather armor and can't use a shield of any kind. The inability to use a shield is probably going to hurt a bit later in the game, because I think the only way he can cast Shalidor's Mirror (Spell Reflection) is by using a shield that has that enchantment-- so no Spell Reflection for him! As for armor, he no longer wears any at all because he's got such good protection from magical items plus Force Wall that he has no need for armor. But that can also make for a more boring game, since he can't use any of the awesome enchanted armor or shields that he finds, so everything he loots usually just ends up being sold for gold, and he's got so much gold it isn't funny.

In my opinion, the most enjoyable classes to play are either a spell-casting class that can use the Spellmaker to create their own spells, or a fighting class that can use enchanted plate armor and enchanted shields.

[Waylander Dakeyras]

I'm glad you're enjoying the game!

It's a big surprise, hard to say exactly why but : 130 hours playing to Arena. I just wanted to know what the game looked like...

I'm doing a very leisurely playthrough for about the fourth time, because I like to explore the wilderness outside of each town looking for dungeons, and even the keeps, towers, and crypts can be fun to fight through and loot-- least so the crypts, since they're so small.

A bit of disappointment for me about the wilderness. It looks like empty, and after doing 4 or 5 dungeons, I feel like they're all the same.
Same about going into houses with my Thief. After 10 houses, I find it boring. It was useful when I wanted to equip my character (stealing the mage in mage-guild) but that's all.

The inability to use a shield is probably going to hurt a bit later in the game, because I think the only way he can cast Shalidor's Mirror (Spell Reflection) is by using a shield that has that enchantment-- so no Spell Reflection for him!

I did the Warlock's Ring (artifact) quest to have Shalidor's Mirror on my Thief. But I think I should have bought one of the two Bucklers with spell reflection mentioned by UESP, because when my Ring will break... don't want to do the quest again.

In my opinion, the most enjoyable classes to play are either a spell-casting class that can use the Spellmaker to create their own spells, or a fighting class that can use enchanted plate armor and enchanted shields.

Warrior class was fun to play. But very hard at the end because I didn't have spell reflection on my shield.
But with marks, bracers, crystals and rings, the dungeons are much more enjoyable.

I did enjoy mage class, but I think it's too powerful.
1 spell shield, 1 spell-abs, and 1 destructive boom, free-action, cure-disease and you can use the first heal spell the game gave you. And 99 restore power potions.
With that, you can't be killed. And if you use invisibility, you can even go faster in the dungeons.

BUT, the fact you can use light, levitation, cure-disease, free-action ALL "unlimited" was nice. Even if rings have a large number of uses, you can equip only one at a time.
Marks breaks too fast.
It would have been better if you could use shortcuts for spells...

So, I am going to find the 7th piece with my thief.
I can't wait to start Daggerfall

[SeaGtGruff]

The wilderness isn't too bad, in my opinion-- definitely a disappointment compared to other games in the series, but (in my opinion) better than Daggerfall's in a way because you can actually run around discovering houses, inns, temples, crypts, keeps, and dungeons to explore. As I understand it, there are only so many variations of each, so once you've explored all variations they do start to look alike. But you might find that some of the variations are more interesting to you, in which case it can be fun exploring the wilderness to see if you can find that variation of keep.

Still, the wilderness outside of one city is pretty much just like the wilderness outside every other city, aside from the exact layout being different. For instance, some cities don't seem to have any interesting places to explore unless you wander far away from the city walls, but others will have several crypts just outside the gates, or several keeps, or even a dungeon or two, which helps to give each city a little bit more distinctiveness from each other despite their generic sameness.

As for the houses, different ones are useful for different things. Some are useful for getting a free night's sleep because they have at least one bed or other raised surface, but others have no beds and no raised surfaces so there are no safe places to sleep in them. Some are especially good for looting because of the number of floors in them and the number of loot piles per floor, while others don't seem to have anything to loot. And of course they all have random enemies. There's one house that is both a great place to sleep as well as a great place to loot, so I think of it as "the mother lode." So the various houses can be useful to become familiar with, such that when you first arrive in town and it's night, you can take a quick peek inside the houses near the city gate to find one that's a good place to sleep. Or if you give your gear to a shop for repair, you can look for a good house close by the store where you can rest for 240 hours and maybe do some good looting at the same time.

The wilderness dungeons can be fun to explore, since each floor is made up of four modules that fit together, so part of the fun is seeing which modules are used by whichever dungeon you happen to be exploring. As with houses and keeps, you'll soon learn that some dungeons are more fun to explore, while others seem like more of a hassle for one reason or another. Either way, once you're intimately familiar with each module you'll often be able to navigate a dungeon quickly and easily.

I've played only one magic class so far-- a Healer, who turned out to be awesomely overpowered in some ways. I didn't use many offensive spells for attacking, just a handful of defensive and support spells like Light, Shield, Heal True, Free Action, Cure Disease, and Spell Reflection. Before long I was able to run around with no armor or shield or weapon, just punching enemies with my fists and drinking lots of Restore Power potions.

Daggerfall is a huge step up from Arena in many ways, but it's also a bit of a step backward in a strange way. The dungeons can be overwhelmingly huge and confusing, especially when you aren't familiar with the various modules yet, and some of them have additional sections you can't get to until you figure out how-- which might be where the target of your quest is. And the mapping system can take a lot of getting used to, which makes dungeon exploration that much more confusing and painful until you get the hang of using the auto map. And then there's the leveling, which is vastly different than Arena's. It's similar to what you're probably already familiar with from later games in the series, but also different-- more complex in some ways, as if they went hog wild at first and then decided later to simplify some things and eliminate others.

[legoless]

The wilderness dungeons can be fun to explore, since each floor is made up of four modules that fit together, so part of the fun is seeing which modules are used by whichever dungeon you happen to be exploring. As with houses and keeps, you'll soon learn that some dungeons are more fun to explore, while others seem like more of a hassle for one reason or another. Either way, once you're intimately familiar with each module you'll often be able to navigate a dungeon quickly and easily.

This is interesting. I was so confused the first time I came across a dungeon outside a city.

[Waylander Dakeyras]

The wilderness isn't too bad, in my opinion-- definitely a disappointment compared to other games in the series, but (in my opinion) better than Daggerfall's in a way because you can actually run around discovering houses, inns, temples, crypts, keeps, and dungeons to explore. As I understand it, there are only so many variations of each, so once you've explored all variations they do start to look alike. But you might find that some of the variations are more interesting to you, in which case it can be fun exploring the wilderness to see if you can find that variation of keep.

Hum, what exactly do you think is interesting about a specific variation?
The loot seems to be completely random, and I can't find any good reason to look for this variation.

As for the houses, different ones are useful for different things. Some are useful for getting a free night's sleep because they have at least one bed or other raised surface, but others have no beds and no raised surfaces so there are no safe places to sleep in them. Some are especially good for looting because of the number of floors in them and the number of loot piles per floor, while others don't seem to have anything to loot. And of course they all have random enemies. There's one house that is both a great place to sleep as well as a great place to loot, so I think of it as "the mother lode." So the various houses can be useful to become familiar with, such that when you first arrive in town and it's night, you can take a quick peek inside the houses near the city gate to find one that's a good place to sleep. Or if you give your gear to a shop for repair, you can look for a good house close by the store where you can rest for 240 hours and maybe do some good looting at the same time.

Yes, I was curious about houses and tried to explore some of them. But as a thief, I just need to stole what I want to use, so why would I need money? Except for repairing/getting some quests.
The loot in houses or dungeons doesn't have any interest to me.
But I agree about using it to rest. I always do it when I fast travel and arrive at night, or when I need to repair my stuff. And if I don't have money, I just have to ask repairing for 10 gold, and wait ~45 days max (even if he says 2500 days haha, this is so broken).

The wilderness dungeons can be fun to explore, since each floor is made up of four modules that fit together, so part of the fun is seeing which modules are used by whichever dungeon you happen to be exploring. As with houses and keeps, you'll soon learn that some dungeons are more fun to explore, while others seem like more of a hassle for one reason or another. Either way, once you're intimately familiar with each module you'll often be able to navigate a dungeon quickly and easily.

In my opinion, random dungeons don't have anything to trigger my curiosity. If I decide to completely explore one, this is because I have something to do there in the first place, like find an artifact or PNJ and I give myself the goal of exploring it. But I did chose to do it only during the main quest because they have specific design.

Before long I was able to run around with no armor or shield or weapon, just punching enemies with my fists and drinking lots of Restore Power potions.

About that, I still want to figure out if I can damage Tharn without magic stuff and without my fists. I am close to the 8th piece so I will be able to try it soon. I will try to max up to 100 everything, and go with an ebony saber. I will be very disappointed if I can't.

Daggerfall is a huge step up from Arena in many ways, but it's also a bit of a step backward in a strange way. The dungeons can be overwhelmingly huge and confusing, especially when you aren't familiar with the various modules yet, and some of them have additional sections you can't get to until you figure out how-- which might be where the target of your quest is. And the mapping system can take a lot of getting used to, which makes dungeon exploration that much more confusing and painful until you get the hang of using the auto map. And then there's the leveling, which is vastly different than Arena's. It's similar to what you're probably already familiar with from later games in the series, but also different-- more complex in some ways, as if they went hog wild at first and then decided later to simplify some things and eliminate others.

I read a few comments saying something similar, I hope I will not be too disappointed. I guess you will find me soon in the Daggerfall section of this forum talking about my first experience

[Waylander Dakeyras]

After a little break (1 month without playing), I finished the main quest with my thief (after my warrior and my mage).

My thief : lvl 22
All stat up to 100
Ebony Saber
Short bow of speed
Marks/Crystals/Bracers/Rings of light, heal, levitation, shield, pass-wall, fireball, wizard's fire, life steal, force bolt
Warlock's Ring
And potions x30 of heal true,fire/cold/shock resist,free action,invisibility

And I am disappointed. I couldn't hit Jagar Tharn once, with my saber or my bow (and shield/heal).
The only way to beat him seems to be :
- with offensive spells
- with fists
- with magic objects
- with reflect spells

So I did it first with just activating Warlock's Ring, but I didn't like it so I load my previous save and "killed" him with my magic items (a looot of life steal).

I don't get why there isn't any way to fight him as a true warrior class... it would have been cool if you could hit him even after some boost potion or something.

Anyway, Daggerfall is waiting for me.

[SeaGtGruff]

Hum, what exactly do you think is interesting about a specific variation?
The loot seems to be completely random, and I can't find any good reason to look for this variation.

Apologies for the very late reply.

It sounds like maybe it wouldn't be worth it for your playstyle. At the moment, one of my two reasons for continuing to play Arena (after having completed the main quest in at least 3 previous playthroughs) is to explore the gameworld. The other reason is because it's easy to pick up the game to do a bit of quick and lite adventuring when I don't have a lot of time for more in-depth gaming.

At one time I'd wanted to map everything, but I haven't worked on that project in a long time-- although someday I'd like to resume it. My current character is actually one of several I'd created, then put aside, back when I was more engaged with my mapping project. He is a Burglar, and I don't remember for sure why I chose that class, but I think it was for the 100% chance at lockpicking so it would be easier to get into houses so I could map them (i.e., see which layout is used for each house in any given city).

The wilderness or overland portion of the game is extremely large, but it does tend to suffer from a lot of sameness due to the way it was randomly generated. Nevertheless, you do encounter areas where there is a handful of crypts clustered together, or a series of keeps near each other, or even several dungeons that are close to each other, which helps to give the "random sameness" a bit of personality or uniqueness.

As far as what makes one variation of house, keep, or dungeon more or less interesting than others, for me it's partly due to how easy or convenient it is to navigate each one.

If you're exploring a dungeon or other type of location for the first time, you don't yet know how it's laid out, so you spend time finding where the boundaries are and exploring all of the passageways and rooms; it's primarily a process of discovery. Of course, that assumes you aren't there with a specific goal in mind which you want to get done as quickly as possible, such that you don't mind taking the time to see what's in every nook and cranny.

But when you're exploring a place you've been to before, or that's laid out the same as someplace you're familiar with, you may start to become more focused on figuring out the most efficient routes for checking down every corridor and inside every room so you don't have to waste time backtracking over territory you've already been over. Some backtracking might be unavoidable, but you can still try to work out a route that reduces the amount of backtracking to a minimum.

Another factor can be how easy it is to traverse the dungeon. There might be bodies of water you must cross, sunken waterways you must swim through, pits you must jump across or climb into and out of, secret doors, and so on. You might walk into a dungeon and find yourself immediately reacting to it with either anticipation or dread based on your prior experiences with other dungeons having the same layout.

Of course, each level of a wilderness dungeon is made up of four square modules, so part of the pleasure of exploring wilderness dungeons is seeing which modules are used and how they fit together.

Aside from that, coming across a dungeon module, keep variation, or even crypt variation that you hadn't seen in a long while can be nice, like a breath of fresh air.

As for why I like doing wilderness dungeons and keeps in the first place, you never know what you're going to encounter as far as enemies. The hand-crafted dungeons in the main quest are always filled with the same enemies, in the same spawn locations and in the same numbers, although resting can spawn random enemies. But the wilderness dungeons can spawn any type of enemy (except liches, I think, since I never encounter them there).

Also, if you aren't repeatedly farming the mythic that lets you increase your stats, then leveling up the old fashioned way is the only option for increasing your stats-- unless your class allows you to wear plate armor that boosts your stats, or if you equip a belt, bracelet, torc, and/or amulet that boosts your stats. So for my current Burglar character, grinding XP to try to level up is the way to go.