Lore General Discussion!

[Dark Spark]

The official anti-Dark Brotherhood organization is known as the Order of the Arrowed Knee.

[MidbossVyers]

Oh, and the Keepers of the Razor started up as an anti-Mythic Dawn organization, but most of its members ended up dangerous criminals themselves. Funny how that works.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

I was so upset over that Canadian bacon incident that I died for two years, but I'm back. Why the hell are some of my threads still on the first two pages? This place is deeeead. So let's give life back to music.

So, let's start with the "big announcement." It's [&@%!]. Not even a title. Was anyone surprised there's gonna be a TES IV? No. I'm more excited about Blades, which is essentially the Oblivion 2 people used to talk about. When is Oblivion 2 coming out? This fall, motha fukka, and it's FREE *

So to me that's by far the less [&@%!] of the two and I will subscribe to this new religion. Let the Defilement commence.

[BetaB17]

Hey, Pilaf glad to see the canadian bacon didnt keep ya down for good! (Also if you really wanna do some extra defilement. Come check out discord )

And FYI, calling it, Blades is just secretly a Skyrim port to mobile I'm calling it

[Imbalance]

I thought you died in a tragic shark attack. Or was it a microwave burrito? I may have you confused with someone else, but I remember your signature well.

Oh, and Bethesda totally trolled the Geoguessers.

[MidbossVyers]

On the Nexus forums, I recall someone asking whether or not wearing a Dark Brotherhood uniform would automatically make the guards know that you are a criminal. IIRC, for Oblivion, someone did make a mod that made Shrouded Armor work like the Gray Cowl of Nocturnal. However, looking at it another way, wearing a Dark Brotherhood uniform in Tamriel is basically like wearing a Schutzstaffel uniform IRL. It would make you the subject of fear and suspicion (the guards in Skyrim do react) but, by itself, would not get you arrested. Then again, there was a DB quest in Oblivion where, depending on how you spoke, no one suspected the person dressed like an assassin to be killing people: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Whodunit%3F

[Chaos the N'wah]

I don't think the dark brotherhood's uniform is quite as overtly known as say the uniform of a group attached to a fully public organization with mass genocide being the daily goal. Actually, Morag Tong would a closer association, at least in public recognition (Both government/organization sanctioned enforcers/assassins with clear racial/national connections)
More likely, the guard sees a dark hooded figure and are more likely to assume they're a thief. I don't even know if their symbol (the black hand) is even that well known, only the black sacrament itself seems to have some public recognition. I mean, the guards in major cities might have some working knowledge, that they might know the black hand symbol is associated with some murder cases and assume it's the Ole' DB. But as long as you're not like Festus Krex and chose to parade around with one of the few DB uniforms that has obvious symbols on it, I'd say you'd just pass as suspicious, not related to the guild known for assassination.

[Dark Spark]

Tenet 2: Never betray the Dark Brotherhood nor its secrets.

"For Sithis' sake, please don't wear your hood!"

[Imbalance]

Ever since my outlander Nord bested the assassin sent by Helseth and claimed his gear, it became clear that traipsing about Tamriel in anything other than your birthday suit is generally accepted. I mean, if you can have a born and bred Viking cosplay as a Foot Ninja with a shiny brass bulova strapped to his back and nobody bats an eye because at least he's wearing something, you may come to realize that this is a society that holds indecency as a greater offense than outward association with a murder cult or illicit weapons trafficking.

[Avron the S'wit]

More likely, the guard sees a dark hooded figure and are more likely to assume they're a thief.

Oh? Dark hoods aren't in high fashion anymore? I just bought mine! Now what?



As to whether or not it's well known - guess it depends on how often the general public would interact with them. If it's pretty commonplace, in that it would be easy and/or common to do the Black Sacrament, you would probably know enough to recognize the details. But it doesn't seem like the general populace of Tamriel is really big on assassinations - not in the way, say, the Dunmer are if because of the acceptance of the Morag Tong as a cultural note, at least - or really has a reason to do so. You do get the "We Know" note in Skyrim, which to me implies it would be known what it means, but given that you did sort of willingly barge into that one...I guess, even if you didn't know, it wouldn't be that hard to put two and two together.

[Chaos the N'wah]

I mean, by the time you've gotten that note, you've likely heard numerous rumors about the black sacrament, found a small boy stabbing body parts while talking about the dark brotherhood, gone to another town to murder an old woman, and returned. At that point, you'd be an idiot not to assume the note is from them.

on a side note: Guards: "I heard a rumor about this boy trying to hire someone to kill someone, should we arrest him?", "Nah, but that cabbage toucher has to die!"
One does wonder where Aventus got the body parts from...

[MidbossVyers]

Is it by coincidence or design that the vampires of Cyrodiil have stat boosts most befitting monks? FYI, that Immortal Blood guy is a priest, which has different skills than monks. Also, even wearing Dark Brotherhood stuff, Mannimarco, in the Oblivion Mages Guild quest line, still thinks you care about good and evil.

[MidbossVyers]

Actually, Morag Tong would a closer association, at least in public recognition (Both government/organization sanctioned enforcers/assassins with clear racial/national connections)

Exactly, and the Brotherhood splintered from the Tong. In Skyrim, the Morag Tong wear grey chitin armor. IIRC, in Morrowind, the Dark Brotherhood wore black chitin armor.

[Wolfborn]

The Dark Brotherhood does wear black armor in Morrowind, but the material it's made out of is never explicitly revealed. Appearance-wise it is considerably different from the normal chitin armor in the game.

[MidbossVyers]

Must be the goggle thing that made me think that it was chitin armor.

[MidbossVyers]

I noticed that both the Dark Brotherhood and Dies Irae's LDO have "coincidental" vampires. Vicente Valtieri was once a mortal who had an allergy to garlic, which transferred over as a vampire. Wilhelm Ehrenburg was an albino before becoming a vampire, so he was never a friend of the sun. Of course, from what I know, Vicente never planned to become a vampire, while Wilhelm's condition made him want to become a vampire.

[MidbossVyers]

Besides the 3 vampire clans and 3 joinable Houses in Morrowind, has any Elder Scrolls game had any other 3 mutually exclusive factions? It's usually just 2, like Legion or Stormcloaks, or Volkihar or Dawnguard, or Mania or Dementia. And I'm talking about full factions, not just quest rewards or endings (Daggerfall).

[legoless]

Besides the 3 vampire clans and 3 joinable Houses in Morrowind, has any Elder Scrolls game had any other 3 mutually exclusive factions? It's usually just 2, like Legion or Stormcloaks, or Volkihar or Dawnguard, or Mania or Dementia. And I'm talking about full factions, not just quest rewards or endings (Daggerfall).

Well, there's the obvious one: the three Alliances in ESO.

Daggerfall also had 8 mutually exclusive temple factions and 10 mutually exclusive knightly orders.

[MidbossVyers]

Aside from the Shadowscales, can membership in the Dark Brotherhood be hereditary? For example, I note that some Motierre family members were Dark Brothers, while others were only clients. For example, had Astrid and Arnbjorn survived long enough to have a kid, would that kid be trained from birth, like a Shadowscale would be?

[Dark Spark]

Depends on whether or not assassins are allowed to have children. Raising a family generates a conflict with the 'family' you join. It may be that such diversions simply do not come to be, either through logical circumstance or some magical influence of Sithis.

[MidbossVyers]

I understand how having spouses outside the Brotherhood might conflict interests, but if it's internally, well, weren't they your Family to begin with? For example, Skyrim's Listener can totally have a spouse and kids. Some of whom were former clients (Muiri and the Honorhall orphans).

[Avron the S'wit]

Well, game mechanics don't always equal lore mechanics, per se, so I'd say Dark Spark makes a fair point. Having a family is quite a big responsibility (and a distraction: your motives shift a bit if you have to think of your survival/success in terms of who needs/wants you) and sometimes outweighs your responsibility to your, errr, job...which not all organizations may be down with. Depends on the individual, I guess. Pretty rare that you can separate business and emotion with the accuracy required to have a blood family and an organizational family, and to keep the lines from blurring too much to create the conflict. Although...I suppose, you would have to have that skill on some level to be an assassin.

[MidbossVyers]

If necromancy is legal in all Imperial provinces, except Morrowind, what authority did Traven have to attempt to arrest Magister Ulliceta? A letter saying she was fired would have sufficed, right? Being the goddess of thieves, Nocturnal sure has a lot of things stolen from herself. Her eye, her key, her clothes.

[AngryNord]

On the Nexus forums, I recall someone asking whether or not wearing a Dark Brotherhood uniform would automatically make the guards know that you are a criminal. IIRC, for Oblivion, someone did make a mod that made Shrouded Armor work like the Gray Cowl of Nocturnal. However, looking at it another way, wearing a Dark Brotherhood uniform in Tamriel is basically like wearing a Schutzstaffel uniform IRL. It would make you the subject of fear and suspicion (the guards in Skyrim do react) but, by itself, would not get you arrested. Then again, there was a DB quest in Oblivion where, depending on how you spoke, no one suspected the person dressed like an assassin to be killing people: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Whodunit%3F

I used to put on the Mythic Dawn robes you get during the MQ (they have "0" value, so you can't sell them) and walk around Imperial City after completing the Main Quest. Nobody batted an eye...

[legoless]

If necromancy is legal in all Imperial provinces, except Morrowind, what authority did Traven have to attempt to arrest Magister Ulliceta?

The authority that comes with having a knightly order at your disposal, I guess.