What are the real world influences on the races of Tamriel?

[VirtualWeasel]

Argonians - HUGE Mexica influence. I think this one has been covered enough.

Mexican... I'd say more of a Mayan influence as opposed to Spanish Mexicans. Just without the temples and advanced society.

Also the Dunmer I think represent the people of Nepal/Tibet. Their practices have Asian influences, but I wouldn't call those influences Japanese. The fact that they follow a central prophet and believe in forms of reincarnation is basically identical to Tibetan and Nepalese beliefs.

Mexica is Aztec...but can also apply to Maya.

I saw Mexican, not Mexica...
Carry on <_<

[Ysmir]

True, but most people consider or as you say apply the Aztecs to the Toltecs not the Mayans.
I'll have to ask my father, he is from the area in Mexico the Nahua live/d, that includes the Aztecs and Toltec.
I may be wrong and someone please correct me if I am but the Mayans were predominately in present day Guatemala, Belize, and El Salvador.
They had presence in Mexico but at the very southern states although their legacy extended far beyond and well into Central Mexico.

[snapple]

I am mistaken, Mexica does not apply to the Maya. I looked it up and never went back to edit my post. You are 100% correct, Ysmir. The term I was looking for was Mesoamerican.

[Werozzi]

Maya people had a lot of presence in southeastern Mexico, their empire, was the one that reached until Guatemala.
Aztecs were from Aztlán, but when they emigrated to central Mexico they became Mexicas, Nahuas are part Mexicas, but archaeological evidence states that they had Mayan influences nonetheless.
Toltecs are almost another story.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

I just remembered something from the First PGE that actually does strengthen my Mongol idea for the Orcs.

The ones in the Wrothgarian and Dragontail mountains actually are nomadic and herd beasts. Giant hairy centipedes to be exact. These could even be used as mounts, and would strengthen the idea of a nomadic culture.

[Brahmin]

There is one more thing, the grey beards and parthunax remind me of the whole vedic /hindu philosophical angle. One universe after another. Infact if I heard it correctly Parthrunax or whatever that dragon's name is says "perhaps this world is egg of the next kalpa" I am curious about the word "kalpa", it means one span of universe in vedic hinduism. I am not sure if there is any such word in any other religion.

This is exacttly as described in the puranas.... The blade's arguments that greybeards never do anything actively and just talk to the sky etc.... extremely brahmnical behavior.

They live on top of mountain whatever. Shiva lives on top of the snowy peaks of himalaya. He is often associated with serpents , and is destroyer of worlds.

There is no such thing as Vedic Hinduism. Vedanta came before Hinduism and refers to the study of the Vedic scriptures. They share a lineage, but they are separate. Just wanted to clear that up.

As for Altmer, I think that there is a slight Slavic influence for their culture. Lately, I have been doing a lot of research on the Slavic history of the Middle Ages and I noticed that the names given to people and places are similar to those Altmer have. But just in the names...as far as the culture goes I am unsure of Altmer. Orcs and Bosmer definitely have a Native American influence, although Bosmer more than the Orcs. I agree with a comment above mentioning a Russian influence for Orcs, that makes sense.

Paarthunax and the Greybeards have spirituality based on Eastern philosophy, with all that meditating. High Hrothgar is a monastery where you can stay and study, just like an ashram.

Erm, Vedanta are a set of hindu texts that were majorly composed by shankaracharya and later on other sages. It is the last phase of vedas (last on the vedas).
It doesnt mean study of vedic scriptures. Vedanta are a set of scriptures that expand on vedas. Its more than vedas.
Hinduism is a modern word I will give you that. But its more of an umberella term, and doesn't really denote a different religion, but rather a generalizing term...
So in India you will find hindus that follow vedanta, some follow vedas (vedic hindus or vedic hinduism , found generaly around western India).

The world being born from a egg is a literal translation from one of the shrutis of rig veda.(hint: its famous among westerners who study astronomy)

About high hrothgar, although the structure does not resemble any hindu monk's place (who btw prefer to live in natural setting rather than well fortified castles), their thinking and that of their leader parthrunax is simply put an extremely hindu outlook on the matters of the world....


Are you in iskon ?

As a student of real world history, I think I can make a few accurate conjectures...

Bosmer - A very big mix of Native American tribes. Iroqiuos as well as South Eastern-American tribes (think Apache, Najavo)

Dunmer - I get the feel they're a good mix of Oriental tradition. Their combat preference (and concept art) definitely links to ancient-Japan period. Some of the other aspects have been covered (their worship), but I feel that it may be more coincidental than intentional (as in, it's more of a by-product of "okay, how can these guys worship differently than the other guys we have made?")

Altmer - Ancient Chinese. Just makes waaaayyy too much sense.

Altmer = chinise ? erm I dont think so ? Try Akavir.

Atleast the culture/relgion of Dunmer seems to heavily borrow from hinduism(when I say this I mean eastern philosophical thoughts originating in the indian subcontinent).
Lets consider for example the worship of deadra. Now which other religion do you know where 'gods' can be both good and bad, and carry [&@%!] load of weapons. The answer is most
ancient world religions of near east. But there is only one where people actually worship say gods who are known for destuction, those are hindus.
Consider the concept of living gods, do you know any religion who has this concept ? Again some ancient near east religions. But its again hindus who practice this.
Ancestor worship : both hindus and japanese.
Cremation ; only hindus.

Architecture: some desert like buildings balmora =do not appear japs at all). The only similarity with architecutre I saw was They have the whole temple like thing everywhere....
This more or less resembles buildings in thailand which has heavy hindu influence.

@VirtualWeasel
How did you come up with Dunmer being based off of hindu culture(atleast its major part) ? Just curious I have reached similar conclusions but I would like to know why you think so...

Well, the Dunmer religion is based highly around ancestor worship, which is also a common practice of the Hindu religion. Also, reading into the lore a little deeper reveals parts of the Dunmer religion that they may not even understand: Their "gods"(i.e. Tribunal) are all the physical embodiment of a larger god, the Godhead or Dreamer. Hinduism is the same in which the gods of creation and other spheres are just offshoots of the greater god. Another similarity is that the creator god of Hinduism is also the doombringer, the End of Universes. This is shown in Dunmer religion as well.

You nailed it right on the head.

Although, for the record, I've never met a Hindu with an Australian accent, like the Dunmer seem to have.

Play the star of azura quest, that necromancer dude who makes the star his dimension of living sounds australian...

Merged triple post. Please try to avoid this in future.

[Dohva.]

Erm, Vedanta are a set of hindu texts that were majorly composed by shankaracharya and later on other sages. It is the last phase of vedas (last on the vedas).
It doesnt mean study of vedic scriptures. Vedanta are a set of scriptures that expand on vedas. Its more than vedas.
Hinduism is a modern word I will give you that. But its more of an umberella term, and doesn't really denote a different religion, but rather a generalizing term...
So in India you will find hindus that follow vedanta, some follow vedas (vedic hindus or vedic hinduism , found generaly around western India).

The world being born from a egg is a literal translation from one of the shrutis of rig veda.(hint: its famous among westerners who study astronomy)

About high hrothgar, although the structure does not resemble any hindu monk's place (who btw prefer to live in natural setting rather than well fortified castles), their thinking and that of their leader parthrunax is simply put an extremely hindu outlook on the matters of the world....


Are you in iskon ?

You're not telling me anything I already don't know practicing Vedanta myself. And I've lived at ashrams that are simple structures removed from the world, like High Hrothgar. The only reason why the Greybeards live in such a fortress is because of the surrounding environment, the likes of which you don't find in India. I do agree with you that the Greybeards have a spiritual outlook on the world...but I wouldn't go as far as saying its Hinduism related. Reason being is there are plenty of Yogic paths and other Eastern philosophies that are not not under the category of Hinduism that have similar outlooks/teachings.

And no.

[OblivionDuruza]

Well, barbarians of some sort. Wasn't really sure what region though.

Possibly a central Asian variety, like the Mongols minus the horses?

At present, I would state that on the whole, the Imperials have a strong Roman vibe, the Nords a clear Viking one, the Redguards, an Arabic one and the Bretons a strong Medieval western fantasy feel. The Dunmer seem to me to have much in common with the Chinese, culturally (although I refer more to a China before Mao and Communism). I say this due to their veneration of the dead/ancestors, and their dutiful and even pious view of House and family. The Bosmer could potentially have some sort of meso-amercan inspiration, although I don't feel we know enough about them to judge, or even that Bethesda knows enough about them to have been inspired all that much by anything. The Argonians seem to fall into a similar boat, although their culture was expanded upon in the two recent Keyes novels, so there may be more information than I am fully aware of.

[Brahmin]

Erm, Vedanta are a set of hindu texts that were majorly composed by shankaracharya and later on other sages. It is the last phase of vedas (last on the vedas).
It doesnt mean study of vedic scriptures. Vedanta are a set of scriptures that expand on vedas. Its more than vedas.
Hinduism is a modern word I will give you that. But its more of an umberella term, and doesn't really denote a different religion, but rather a generalizing term...
So in India you will find hindus that follow vedanta, some follow vedas (vedic hindus or vedic hinduism , found generaly around western India).

The world being born from a egg is a literal translation from one of the shrutis of rig veda.(hint: its famous among westerners who study astronomy)

About high hrothgar, although the structure does not resemble any hindu monk's place (who btw prefer to live in natural setting rather than well fortified castles), their thinking and that of their leader parthrunax is simply put an extremely hindu outlook on the matters of the world....


Are you in iskon ?

You're not telling me anything I already don't know practicing Vedanta myself. And I've lived at ashrams that are simple structures removed from the world, like High Hrothgar. The only reason why the Greybeards live in such a fortress is because of the surrounding environment, the likes of which you don't find in India. I do agree with you that the Greybeards have a spiritual outlook on the world...but I wouldn't go as far as saying its Hinduism related. Reason being is there are plenty of Yogic paths and other Eastern philosophies that are not not under the category of Hinduism that have similar outlooks/teachings.

And no.

I say their outlook is hindu because they do not act, and don't give a [&@%!] about what happens to the world... in one instance that angir says "if the world is to be destroyed ,let it be destroyed and born new " or something to that effect... This is something no western or middle eastern philosophy teaches.

All yogic philosophies are hindu. Name a few which are not , because I dont know of any yogic principle that is not hindu ? Reincarnation, karma, kalpa, egg of time, these are the concepts first introduced in vedas and further discussed in one of the smritis ....many other religions of east borrowed them notably buddhism , but in essence they are hindu...

What are you talking about in case of high hrothgar ? I would say its more or less copy of kailash or mount everest (probably kailash due to its spiritual connection). The sadhus DO infact live in himalayas, but they use caves, rather than bulding castles.

http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/imag ... be38/l.jpg

This is a sadhu, he is clearly surrounded by snow ie. sub zero, and he is naked. (AND this is INDIA)

[Dohva.]

I think to call the Greybeards outright Hindu isn't accurate. There are plenty of Eastern paths that focus on meditation and non-action for spiritual progression. And this topic isn't about religion so I'm only going to say this: Yoga came BEFORE Hinduism (around 3000 BC). Hinduism has roots in Vedic religion and the Vedas were established AFTER Yoga was thought to have surfaced. Therefore, Yoga cannot even be considered Vedic. There are paths of Yoga that fall under Hinduism: but not all Yogis are Hindus and not all Hindus are Yogis.

And as far as High Hrothgar: What I meant is that the harsh Northern environment + cultural differences are the reasons why the Greybeards live in a castle. Everyone knows that sadhus live in the Himalayas and its cold there, too. You cannot compare these cultures (in this case being Indians vs. Northern Europeans) and say the Greybeards are for sure this or that. This thread was intended to focus on how real world cultures have influenced the creators of Tamriel...not to say they were exactly like them.

[Brahmin]

I think to call the Greybeards outright Hindu isn't accurate. There are plenty of Eastern paths that focus on meditation and non-action for spiritual progression. And this topic isn't about religion so I'm only going to say this: Yoga came BEFORE Hinduism (around 3000 BC). Hinduism has roots in Vedic religion and the Vedas were established AFTER Yoga was thought to have surfaced. Therefore, Yoga cannot even be considered Vedic. There are paths of Yoga that fall under Hinduism: but not all Yogis are Hindus and not all Hindus are Yogis.

And as far as High Hrothgar: What I meant is that the harsh Northern environment + cultural differences are the reasons why the Greybeards live in a castle. Everyone knows that sadhus live in the Himalayas and its cold there, too. You cannot compare these cultures (in this case being Indians vs. Northern Europeans) and say the Greybeards are for sure this or that. This thread was intended to focus on how real world cultures have influenced the creators of Tamriel...not to say they were exactly like them.

Yeah...I dont know where you get the idea that I called grey beards hindu.....
what I however did say is their outlook on the world is hindu. ie. the way they think about the world and action/reaction is hindu.
Obviously they are not hindu, theres no hindu who wears black robes and all except probably mantriks who are not sadhus.

Yoga is one of the paths to achieve moksha. Its hindu way of life...
As far was what came first yogas or vedic religion, that is very hard to tell one way or the other, what I do know is yoga is a product of the hindu people of India... Therefore its hindu.

Its you who is unnecessarily trying to go into religion to show disassociate for eg. yoga from hinduism, or vedas/vedanta from hinduism or some crap like that, for whatever reasons you may have....

EDIT: http://geoheritagescience.wordpress.com ... /#comments


Another interesting take on the geography of skyrim.

[Leilah]

If you wish to continue your discussion on Hinduism, yoga, etc, please take it to PM.

[hlaalu66]

Here's what i think:

Bretons woud be some sort of English/French mix. English in their looks and architecture. French in their lifestyles and names.
Imperials would clearly be late era Romans.
Nords are Norse (Obviously).
Redguards would most likely be from the Arabian Peninsula. Hammerfell reminds me of it. Just like the Arabs they conquered the deserts and drove out the "barbarians" and "beasts".
Altmer My guess would be Greeks. Cloudrest reminds me of Olympus, high in the mountain. Greek alphabet became the Latin alphabet (just like Altmeris basically became Tamriellic). Master Conquerors before the time of the Romans. Thinking everyone not of greek descent a barbarian. A loose confederacy of City states. Artaeum - Atlantis (in a sense). Mathematicians. Even the Altmeri gods reminds me of the Greek ones. And just like Romans, the Imperials incorporated their aspects into their own beliefs.
Bosmer are tough ones to decide. Maôri or other Indigenous peoples of Oceania most likely. Warring tribes. Lives/lived in secluded forests.
Dunmer Late Mongolian Empire for sure, (Which included Persia, Mongolia, China, Large parts of Southern Russia, and the Stans). The Great Houses represent the different Khanates. The Khans revered as Living Gods. Ashlanders - Northern Mongolian Nomadic Tribes defying the Khans authority. The Ordinators are almost ridiculously alike to the personal guard of Kublai Khan from the Netflix series of "Marco Polo".
Orcs are definetaly Huns (or early Mongols in their armors and nomadism). Viewed by the other races as Monsters rather than "human" beings. Tries to build a great empire only to end up being crushed to dust. Fierce warriors to be sure.
Argonians are Aztecs from what i gather. The description of the pyramid of Ixtaxh-thtithil-meht reminds me alot of an Aztec temple.
Khajjit have their culture derived from either berbers or "African Arabs" in the northern deserts of Anequina, and seem more Persian in Pelletine. Their lands closely resembles to the northern half of Africa. Great desert sand dunes in the north traversed by nomads and berber caravans. And in the south, massive Rain forests and port cities.
Dwemer Babylonian/Assyrian look alikes. Way ahead of their time.
Aylieds are all speculation. Mayan empire maybe. Lived in Rain forests such as Cyrodiil pre-Talos (or more like pre-Oblivion).
Reachmen resembles the Picts and other Celtic tribes. Barbaric in their treatment to outsiders.
The Akaviri races would come from the many different cultures of the Japanese Isles

That's all i have for now on the races of Tamriel. No idea where to put the rest. The Sload, Maormer, Falmer and the Imga and such.

[AngryNord]

Bretons: Bretons are a real-life French celtic people. Their French-sounding names in ESO and the main TES games are obviously taken from here. Otherwise mostly generic medieval European.
Reachmen: Seem inspired by Roman-Era Celts
Orcs: Especially in Skyrim and ESO, they seem to show a lot of influence from the Mongols. And some Tolkien, especially in TES4.
Akaviri and Blades: Katanas and their temples show an obvious Japanese influence. Armour is kinda a Roman/Byzantine/Samurai hybrid (think a Roman Lorica Segmentata with Samurai-style greaves, Byzantine helmet and Shield).
Imperials: Quite a bit of influence from the Roman Empire - armour, especially in TES:3 and TES:5 and to some degree ESO, clothing in ESO, some building styles in TES:4 and ESO. Also shows some Gothic influence (TES4's Skingrad, and some TES4 armours).
Nords: Viking/Norse, but also some ancient Scots influence such as the use of two-handed swords and some titles. Some generic Germanic influence too.
Argonians: Their temples etc in ESO are obviously influenced from the mesoamerican cultures. Race as such is obviously influenced from Lizardmen in D&D and other fantasy. Some of their naming styles seem inspired by Native Americans.
Redguards: Especially in ESO and Skyrim, they have a lot of Persian/Middle Eastern influence. But also a lot of Asian. Anvil in TES4/ESO is said to be in "Hammerfell style" and looks kinda Caribbean.
Khajiit: Show a lot of Indian/Central Asian influence in ESO.
Bosmer and Altmer: Obvious Tolkien influence. Altmer culture as it is presented also draws from cultures that tended to see themselves as superior to all surrounding cultures, such as e.g. Incas and ancient Egypt.
Thalmor: Nazi Germany
Dunmer: Shows a lot of Chinese/Asian influence (Junks, ancestor worship), but also Middle Eastern (e.g. Balmora), Eastern European (e.g. the title "Hetman" used in TES3), some Tolkien, some native American (e.g. some clothes styles in TES3). Perhaps the most "unique" race, in that it has a lot of stuff not directly inspired from "real" cultures.