How about a Doom/TES crossover?

Imbalance · Post by **Imbalance** » Fri May 27, 2016 2:59 pm

What, like, myth was proto-science and science becomes neo-myth? The religion of gaming gives us the mask we best use to follow our bliss?

Been meaning to ask you where your signature quote comes from. Google only led me to Reddit.

Pilaf The Defiler · Post by **Pilaf The Defiler** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:03 pm

Imbalance wrote:What, like, myth was proto-science and science becomes neo-myth? The religion of gaming gives us the mask we best use to follow our bliss?

Been meaning to ask you where your signature quote comes from. Google only led me to Reddit.

The Truth lies somewhere between the Hero and the Event, but it's always the same Event told over and over, and always the same Hero, though she doesn't wear the same face. The Myth is the specific story, and stories have power and meaning. You don't wanna obsess over the details of the story to the detriment of the Event, though. So, people who say "Well these two fiction could never overlap because there's two moons!" are too wrapped up in the details of their own favored Myth. Imagination is much bigger than details.

My signature was from a very clever young person on Reddit.

Bauglir100 · Post by **Bauglir100** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:06 am

Not every crossover needs to be some big dramatic event where the main characters all meet each other. Sometimes, the best crossovers are ones where only minor characters are involved. It'd be convoluted enough trying to get Doomguy to meet the Dragonborn, or whoever happens to be the Hero of that day/age. What if, say, Doomguy just stepped through a portal in Hell/Oblivion, and ended up in a random town in High Rock, and got into trouble with the Imperial Legion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VADd_h_Ujzs

Or if it turned out that Hell Knights, Cacodemons, etc. were among the Daedra that participated in the Oblivion Crisis?

The SheoDovah · Post by **The SheoDovah** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:21 pm

There is the issue of guns. Guns from Doom would be very overpowered and Doomguy is one powerful dude that beats up demons in his pastime. Unleashing him on the Imperial Legion would result in dead legionaires. I still feel Doom and TES have nothing in common beyond using their own versions of demons. Forcing Doom's demons into the Oblivion Crisis is a very bad idea. TES is currently getting a lot of stuff retconned and not all of it is recieved well. The outrage of Doom being in TES would be a lot. Mods, however, are best for crossovers. We've had MachoDragons, Thomas the Dragons etc..

Lore of the two franchises are completely different and well, Zenimax is under a bit of fire for their way of handling it in ESO. Trying to merge parts of Doom and TES would be a nightmare. Both are not really suitable.

Bauglir100 · Post by **Bauglir100** » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:48 am

The SheoDovah wrote:There is the issue of guns. Guns from Doom would be very overpowered and Doomguy is one powerful dude that beats up demons in his pastime. Unleashing him on the Imperial Legion would result in dead legionaires. I still feel Doom and TES have nothing in common beyond using their own versions of demons. Forcing Doom's demons into the Oblivion Crisis is a very bad idea. TES is currently getting a lot of stuff retconned and not all of it is recieved well. The outrage of Doom being in TES would be a lot. Mods, however, are best for crossovers. We've had MachoDragons, Thomas the Dragons etc..

Lore of the two franchises are completely different and well, Zenimax is under a bit of fire for their way of handling it in ESO. Trying to merge parts of Doom and TES would be a nightmare. Both are not really suitable.

First, guns wouldn't be that overpowered. Yeah, they're powerful. But here's the thing: Guns. Need. Ammo. It's not like there's gonna be a bunch of ammo clips waiting for him in Tamriel. Meanwhile, Tamriel is home to mages that could blast apart a whole village with a single fireball. And the Imperial Legion has battlemages.

Second, how would the outrage be a lot? How would you even know the outrage would be a lot? Oblivion is infinite in size. Millions of realms, billions of Daedra of different types. We've had demonic knights, golden-skinned Amazons, spider-women, horned cavemen, gator-people, four-armed bodybuilders, Cthulhu knockoffs, Xenomorph lookalikes, midgets with dogs, walking rock candy, and old men with canes for Daedra. I really don't think a giant meatball monster with teeth or a tall muscular brute would look too out of place. It's not like I'm suggesting a Cyberdemon show up in Morrowind and blow Vivec away with its missile launcher.

If you wanna stay a naysayer, then suit yourself. But I still think that Doom and The Elder Scrolls can work. And I'm not the only one that thinks this. I found a very interesting video with an in-depth analysis on both series and how they could both fit in the same universe. You should check it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdKn2-YzzxI

Bauglir100 · Post by **Bauglir100** » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:17 am

So here's a blog concerning the possibility of how ZeniMax/Bethesda/id's biggest franchises can fit together:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog ... ,_and_TES)

It can also explain away some of the absurd retcons in The Elder Scrolls Online.

Leckan · Post by **Leckan** » Sat May 27, 2017 9:21 pm

What about a crossover with Mortal Kombat?

The SheoDovah · Post by **The SheoDovah** » Mon May 29, 2017 8:14 pm

It wouldn't work well due to Mortal Kombat's different settings. Scorpion and Subzero could fit into TES due to magic being a viable handwave. Same with Raiden(Massively depowered and not a god though) but the characters are a major pick and mix of sci-fi/fantasy. The realms could fit into TES(Mainly the fantasy based settings). But Mortal Kombat is a fighting game and rarely, do fighting games translate well into other genres.

I do feel that TES is more or less self contained and crossovers are hard to do without it being a standard Magic did it or different realm and magic reason. Cameos, things like the Dovahcore add-on works as they are just minor but welcome crossovers that don't require any explaining. Entire games? It is hard to pull off imo.

Bauglir100 · Post by **Bauglir100** » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:40 pm

Leckan wrote:What about a crossover with Mortal Kombat?

Uh, dude. Please don't hijack my thread. Why not just start your own?

The SheoDovah wrote:It wouldn't work well due to Mortal Kombat's different settings. Scorpion and Subzero could fit into TES due to magic being a viable handwave. Same with Raiden(Massively depowered and not a god though) but the characters are a major pick and mix of sci-fi/fantasy. The realms could fit into TES(Mainly the fantasy based settings). But Mortal Kombat is a fighting game and rarely, do fighting games translate well into other genres.

I do feel that TES is more or less self contained and crossovers are hard to do without it being a standard Magic did it or different realm and magic reason. Cameos, things like the Dovahcore add-on works as they are just minor but welcome crossovers that don't require any explaining. Entire games? It is hard to pull off imo.

Well, there's sort of an alternative: Quake, which has basically become the Mortal Kombat of first-person shooters. Those games feature a lot of dimension-hopping, multiplayer with combatants from across space and time (TES has its own history with cosmic retcons!), and a mixture of fantasy, science-fiction, and horror. Quake 3 Arena had characters from the Doom universe, and Quake Champions is going to have B.J. Blazkowicz from the Wolfenstein series. Why not throw in some characters from The Elder Scrolls, Fallout, RAGE, Dishonored, etc. for good measure? All those series are owned by ZeniMax Media, and first-person combat is well-established with each of these franchises.

The SheoDovah · Post by **The SheoDovah** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:13 pm

Fallout and TES should never cross. One is a post nuclear wasteland series that has no fantasy elements at all and takes place in America(so far) and is a retro futuristic game. TES is a fantasy RPG series with it's own lore and Fallout characters would stick out like a sore thumb. E.g. Liberty Prime would be hard to accept aside from "Dwemer construct." and he would be too advanced to pass off. Laser rifles, guns would not be allowed due to the setting. Quake and Doom were rivals at one point and both weren't known for it's lore. TES is. Dishonoured has it's own things and again, not really able to fit into it. Rage is just a FPS that takes place in a wasteland setting. Gameplay should never be used as a reason for a crossover. Just because Zenimax owns those IP doesn't mean they can do it without facing any backlash. I mean, the fanbase of TES is very varied about the franchise. Morrowind fans may refuse to adknowledge post morrowind games. Skyrim fans view Skyrim as the best in the franchise and refuse to play the other games etc... A crossover would be a massive issue along with it just not working with the established lore.

Elune · Post by **Elune** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:31 pm

Exterior: Dull moonlight shines onto the Imperial City

A flash in the sky and a meteor crash lands in the middle of the Arena. Guards forgetting their duty rush towards the scene. One guard within the Arena looks down on some sort of metal device. A pod from a spaceship. Its door opens. Out steps the DOOM™ Marine. His plasma rifle resting on his shoulder, pistol in hand. As the guard comes in for a closer look his head explodes in a sticky pulp. Smoke emits from the DOOM™ Marine's pistol.

Fade to black.

Bauglir100 · Post by **Bauglir100** » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:50 am

The SheoDovah wrote:Gameplay should never be used as a reason for a crossover.

And saying that different series can't co-exist because they're of different genres doesn't make it so. Doom, Wolfenstein, Quake, RAGE, and Commander Keen already share a universe, and they mostly just do their own thing. And that's all it needs to be. Just a few tangents to show that these series are connected to each other.

If the Dragonborn just wandered through a portal to the Capital Wasteland, would that automatically mean that every Wastelander would start using magic? If Doomguy entered the Shivering Isles, would that mean all the Golden Saints and Dark Seducers would start using chainguns and plasma cannons? No, they'd still do things their own way.

Having advanced tech doesn't mean that you'll automatically conquer a faction that mostly uses medieval weaponry. Look at the Wonder Woman movie, when German soldiers arrive in Themiscyra, and despite being armed with rifles, are pretty much massacred by the sword and spear-wielding Amazons. Why? Because the Amazons had extensive training and discipline on their side. Better weapons don't make better warriors.

Furthermore, we've seen all sorts of strange things in The Elder Scrolls. A man with a laser gun would certainly draw a lot of attention, but it would still barely register a blip on the weirdness radar next to the Daedra, Divines, mages, Dwemer robots, demigods, etc. that we've already seen.

There are fantasy, or at least occult, references in the Fallout series. For example, the Dunwich stuff in 3 and 4. There's also a ghost in Fallout 2 and in the Nuka-World add-on of Fallout 4.

Also, while there would be a lot of people that would be upset about such a crossover, there are bound to be many others that either don't care or would embrace the idea. In case you haven't noticed, lots of fans of The Elder Scrolls tend to overlap with Fallout, and vice-versa. Think about it, how many times have you seen people draw comparisons between TES and Fallout?

The SheoDovah · Post by **The SheoDovah** » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:46 am

I agree for fighting games, that crossovers can be justified as it's just that, fighting game. But TES and Doom are not compatible. TES has it's own self contained universe. Doom, Wolfesentein,Quake and Rage are all first person shooters that aren't known for it's lore. TES is one of the iconic franchises that has it's own evolving lore.

References do not mean that it is canon. E.g. The dunwich stuff is a homage to a lot of lovecraft's stuff. The ghost in Fallout 2 is an easter egg etc.. TES uses Ghosts as a canon creature.

Fallout and TES are two seperate genres with their own established lore. Rarely, does the two do well when combined and there are parts of both fanbases that er... well, let's say that they are fierecly protective of it. A crossover would likely do a ton of damage. There is no Earth in TES. Earth exists in Fallout and aside from easter eggs, Fallout does not do fantasy elements. The gameplay is similiar, yes but before 3, Fallout was completely different.

TES and Dragon Age is something that could potentially work but that would be very hard to intergrate. Same with LOTR or AGOT.

The only thing that Doom and TES has is being owned by Bethesda.

Bauglir100 · Post by **Bauglir100** » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:00 pm

The SheoDovah wrote:I agree for fighting games, that crossovers can be justified as it's just that, fighting game. But TES and Doom are not compatible. TES has it's own self contained universe. Doom, Wolfesentein,Quake and Rage are all first person shooters that aren't known for it's lore. TES is one of the iconic franchises that has it's own evolving lore.

Then GIVE those series lore. Make them a part of a mutual canon. The fact that there's such little lore in those series means that they can still be part of a bigger picture.

I've actually done a bit of calculating to see how the timelines would interfere with one another. Here's what I've diagnosed, under the assumption that the "outer realm" that Yagrum Bagarn visits is the dimension containing Earth (and Mars), and that his presence caused the Da'at Yichud from Wolfenstein: The New Order to create their suspiciously Dwemer-looking technology.

1E 700=c. 1500 B.C.

-Earth: Yagrum Bagarn visits Earth; encounters Hebrew society known as Da'at Yichud. Encounter influences secret creation of advanced technology.
-Nirn: Yagrum Bagarn is away in one of the Outer Realms (i.e. Earth's dimension); The Dwemer disappear

1E 2920=720 A.D.

Earth: N/A
Nirn: First Era ends; Second Era begins

2E 896=1489 A.D.
Earth: N/A
Nirn: Second Era ends; Third Era begins

3E 433=1922 A.D.
Earth: N/A
Nirn: Oblivion Crisis. Third Era ends; Fourth Era begins

4E 201= 2123 A.D.
Earth: N/A
Nirn: Skyrim Civil War, Coming of the Dragons

There's also the matter of how the Fallout and id Software family games would fit:

https://bethesda.net/community/topic/12 ... continuity

mournblade94 · Post by **mournblade94** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:37 am

I hate crossover universes. I would rather the elder scrolls lore not become completely wrapped up.with another franchise. I don't know where this wacky notion comes from that all in verses need to be shared.

Elder Scrolls would gain nothing by merging with Fallout or Doom. It would dilute the lore of all universes without any gain. Put creative energy into making the world's better instead of making gimmicky decisions about the company games.

It would be as terrible as Marvel and Star Wars indicating they were a shared universe. It would make each one worst. It's simply meta thinking and anti immersive.

mournblade94 · Post by **mournblade94** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:00 pm

Parallel universe I like. Like marvel and DC. They crossover, but events from one do not effect the other.

I would rather have TES, DOOM, and Fallout be like marvel/DC rather than marvel 616/ultimate marvel

AngryNord · Post by **AngryNord** » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:04 am

How about no?

Bauglir100 · Post by **Bauglir100** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:22 pm

mournblade94 wrote:I hate crossover universes. I would rather the elder scrolls lore not become completely wrapped up.with another franchise. I don't know where this wacky notion comes from that all in verses need to be shared.

Elder Scrolls would gain nothing by merging with Fallout or Doom. It would dilute the lore of all universes without any gain. Put creative energy into making the world's better instead of making gimmicky decisions about the company games.

It would be as terrible as Marvel and Star Wars indicating they were a shared universe. It would make each one worst. It's simply meta thinking and anti immersive.

How do you know it would automatically ruin the franchises? It really depends on how it's done. If a lot of thought is put into how it happens, then it could be totally seamless. The theory that Fallout's Earth is the past/future of The Elder Scrolls' Nirn is NOT an example of this, as there are many reasons why that wouldn't work and both franchises would undergo a massive number of retcons that would make no sense. But why couldn't Earth, Mars, etc. be in the Outer Realms beyond Mundus? The Monomyth does mention that they "[contain] the multitude realms of Aetherius and Oblivion, as well as other, less structured forms."

Even the Battlespire is located in a slipstream dimension between Oblivion and Mundus. So what's so bad about including more slipstream dimensions that the Fallout, Doom, etc. universes could exist in beyond the boundaries of Mundus? It's totally possible for two franchises to exist in the same universe, but still be allowed to do their own thing.

talk page · Post by **legoless** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:36 pm

Bauglir100 wrote:Even the Battlespire is located in a slipstream dimension between Oblivion and Mundus. So what's so bad about including more slipstream dimensions that the Fallout, Doom, etc. universes could exist in beyond the boundaries of Mundus? It's totally possible for two franchises to exist in the same universe, but still be allowed to do their own thing.

Battlespire is located in the TES equivalent of the upper atmosphere. It is physically halfway between Mundus and Oblivion.

Handwaving about the limitless possibilities of Oblivion is shoddy Russell's teapot-tier lore. Yeah, it's possible, but it's also silly.

Imbalance · Post by **Imbalance** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:26 pm

Any new interest in this possibility after the Microsoft buyout?

talk page · Post by **legoless** » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:10 pm

Imbalance wrote:Any new interest in this possibility after the Microsoft buyout?

It's already kind of happened: Mudcrab of Eternal Doom

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