Dwemer Ghosts and their implications

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Kerr
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Dwemer Ghosts and their implications

Post by Kerr »

So I was thinking about Dwemer ghosts, more specifically why do they exist and what are the implications of their existence? Because there are Dwemer ghosts in Morrowind and not just the lone blacksmith in the Tribunal expansion, Arkngthand where you go to get the Dwemer puzzle box early in the Main Quest has numerous Dwemer Specters. They're not in the talking mood, they just try to kill you, but they're the ghosts of Dwemer none the less.

Now I thought when Lord Kagrenac screwed around with the Heart of Lorkhan he removed the entire race from existence, body and soul. The exception being Yagrum Bagarn who was off world at the time. But given the existence of Dwemer ghosts (the souls of Dwemer) in the third era what does this mean?

I can think of three possible explanations for why these ghosts exist:

These are Dwemer who died before Kagrenac did his thing and the souls of the dead were unaffected by the accession/destruction of the race.
These are Dwemer who like Yagrum were off world at the time but came back later and died. The only reason Yagrum didn't die is corpus. It's possible Oblivion counts as off world, Falion in Skyrim claims to have met a Dwemer while exploring Oblivion and assuming he isn't lying or mistaken, more Dwemer could have survived the use of the heart than we think.
For some reason The Nerevarine can see them due to Nerevar's connection with the race but other people can't. (Which I don't think is true. I fall pretty firmly in the Nerevarine actually is Nerevar reborn camp but I don't think this is the case.)

So if you have any theories behind why these ghosts exist I'd like to hear them. The other question is, do we know of anyone who's tried to communicate with Dwemer ghosts other than The Nerevarine? So historians trying to find out more about the race. Because being able to actually talk to the now deceased members of an ancient civilization would be an invaluable historical resource.
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Re: Dwemer Ghosts and their implications

Post by Dark Spark »

I'd like to think ghosts in a fantasy world are memories made manifest, thus always bound to the past.
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Re: Dwemer Ghosts and their implications

Post by Imbalance »

Memories drop ectoplasm and can be trapped in a gem?

I'd give credence to theories one and two, in combination, perhaps. The only merit the Neravarine theory warrants is the fact that they only appear in that saga, and no other game (correct me if wrong, haven't played them all). I'd say the Falmer have a lot to do with the fact that Dwemer ruins in Skyrim hold no lingering spectres of the lost race.

Were it not for the (what? two?) named ghosts in Morrowind I would almost speculate that they were an intended defense mechanism left in place by the vanished. There was even a temptation to treat them as if they were living in a slightly misaligned, parallel reality, and that just a hint of their living essence was phasing over into the present from whatever plane they had been sent by that fateful event at Red Mountain, and that only those nearest the breach could be detected.

But yeah, pretty sure the game just wants us to think they're regular dead guys chillin' incorporeally.
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Re: Dwemer Ghosts and their implications

Post by Ecno »

Perhaps some of the Dwemer were naturally or artificially separated from "The Calling" preventing their passage from Nirn. In the case of an area with numerous specters there may have been some sort of cultural or scientific experiment involved or a localized natural phenomenon. Isolated cases maybe just be an uncommon mutation or birth defect resulting in little or no connection to "The Calling".
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Re: Dwemer Ghosts and their implications

Post by BetaB17 »

I think it's fair to assume the specters are just that... Specters, lost souls long past.. And an unintended exception or oversight in part by Kagrenac. Give the man some credit, it's hard enough to make an entire race disappear.. You except him to do the same with every undead or lost spirit as well? Not to say he was flawless in his action to begin with(intended results or not), bc, he certainly didn't erase every living example of the Dwemer... Just, the ones on Nirn

But ya, there is an uneasy frequency of undead dwemer echoing about in Morrowind ruins. You don't see the same shared amongst what we see in Skyrim or other installments featuring dwemer ruins.. Frankly.. I think that's a missed opportunity.. Even if such encounters wil be rare.. And another uneasy detail.. Why are there so many undead in these ruins? I mean, they certainly arent lacking in defense... And sure as hell had to be active with living occupants for the bulk of their existence, given that the Dwemer often made these underground ruins their homes or workshops

Now then, we could endlessly debate about the status or conditions of these specters.. Whether their mere echoes of their former selves or just another ghost bound to it's domain.. But that still will never answer why, why are there so many and only in Morrowind ruins
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Re: Dwemer Ghosts and their implications

Post by Kerr »

There are stories where ghosts aren't the souls of the dead, they're just a kind of psychic echo of past events, but every other instance of ghosts in the series has been pretty clearly the actual souls of the dead.

I almost wonder if the reason they are numerous Dwemer ghosts in Morrowind but no other game isn't some lore reason but because they made Dwemer models for scenes of Nerevar's life that got cut and they still wanted to make use of those character models.

Even if it's not the Dwemer, historian who talks to ghosts would be good angle for a quest.
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