On Sheogorath/Jyggalag

[AKB]

There's been a recent note, from an OOG text, that Haskill once played the CoC's role in SI: "Chamberlain Haskill says, "I have had similar questions about my 'nature' from Alessandra, Legoless, and an Unnamed One, so I suppose I must address the matter. I am a Vestige, all that remains of a mortal from your world who 'mantled' Sheogorath during an event in a previous time. As a fragment, my memory of the event is … fragmentary. I am hazy on the entire concept of 'mantling,' but it had something to do with Lord Sheogorath, myself, and this Jyggalag of whom you speak. I have asked the Mad God to explain it to me, but he just laughs and says maybe he'll tell me about it 'next year,' whatever that means.

"Sometimes the Master irritates even me. I can't remember why I put up with it, actually." "

This has raised a new question, did Shivering Isles even happen? Is it simply a part of Sheogorath's curse to come up with the same solution each time, and fail? Which makes the comments from 4E Sheogorath even odder, if the CoC isn't Sheogorath. It's even odder because Sheogorath even claimed in SI that this was his first attempt at doing so. Did Sheo lie, or did he simply not remember?

So what's going on here? A hard reversal on the scenario, just a failed attempt at the same plan, or something more sinister (this is the intended result, everytime)? Or can you see another way this could have played out?

[Dark Spark]

"You know what the definition of insanity is?"

[Imbalance]

Ooooooooooh....

[Dark Spark]

Mind you, this is the Elder Scrolls we're talking about, and Daedric princes are bound to its strange metafictional mechanics as anything else. The Champion is the subject of an Elder Scroll, after all, so anything is certain and nothing is possible (you might be asking yourself "Isn't that supposed to be 'Nothing is certain and anything is possible?'" and you would only prove how far you are from understanding).

[legoless]

There was a previous thread about this here, which you might be interested in.

This has raised a new question, did Shivering Isles even happen? Is it simply a part of Sheogorath's curse to come up with the same solution each time, and fail? Which makes the comments from 4E Sheogorath even odder, if the CoC isn't Sheogorath. It's even odder because Sheogorath even claimed in SI that this was his first attempt at doing so. Did Sheo lie, or did he simply not remember?

I think maybe he didn't remember. The events of Shivering Isles occurred, but it seems the player was part of the joke.

[Br3admax]

I'd treat this kind of thing with a grain of salt. People like Haskill are able to accomplish a lot of things, but they'll never be able to accomplish the same things that someone like the CoC can. Is it possible that literally everyone in Shivering Isles lied? Sure. It's also possible that the CoC was finally the first one to break said cycle, and that it's true that no one else was actually able to win the final battle with Jyggalag even when they became Sheogorath. Ultimately, it's just more nuaice that while not needed, isn't exactly deterimental to the narrative unless you really want it to be.

[legoless]

It's also possible that the CoC was finally the first one to break said cycle, and that it's true that no one else was actually able to win the final battle with Jyggalag even when they became Sheogorath.

Nope:

"I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years." -Literally the Champion of Cyrodiil

He figured it out eventually.

[Br3admax]

The problem with that is we're also told the CoC is the first one to actually defeat Jyggalag, not mantle Sheogorath. By everyone. New Sheoth is not destroyed this time. The Isles were destroyed the last Greymarch. So, unless everyone else is in on the joke, and keeps up appearances completely, that doesn't make sense. So while there may have been other Sheogorath's before, we'll need to wait until the next one to prove if there will ever be another. It's the same logic I use with the whole "Last Dragonborn" thing, or the Nerevarine. Not to mention the whole, "ES should be open-source" thing Bethesda jives with. Declaring certainty is antithetical to the point.