Dark Souls

[Lord Timster]

Interesting read, thanks for that.
Sensei Beta - telling it how it is.

DS1 I think must be the worst game to be an NPC in that I've ever seen.

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With Beatrice I wonder if she is backstabbed by that sneaky Darkwraith hanging around in the corner just after she puts her signature down, manages to escape New Londo but dies of her wounds shortly afterwards.

Kirk - I had forgotten about his Darkwraith connections - final resting place makes more sense now.

Lautrec I suppose got launched into the air by Uber-Ornstein's spear flick.

Griggs I did not know about (never having bought all his stuff) - though now you mention it, makes me think that originally he might have just been meant to turn up as a corpse given that there are corpses in Sen's with his clothing and stealth ring/spell already on offer.

Also I read in an interview with the designers that Priscilla was originally meant to play a much larger role in the story as well.

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Personally, playing DS1 over the last couple of months coincided with me reading the Babylonian creation myth as a psychological metaphor (lots of Abyss references there), and then there was that 'Cthulhu translates as Lord of the Abyss' thing as well. All in all it's given me a pretty weird gestalt head-canon view of DS Lore. Nothing necessarily to do with the actual game as intended by the designers though I'd imagine, but still...

[MARS]

Well, now I'm starting a new run again, and I'll be recording it here. With specs and death count and everything.

edit: the game crashed after I made my character. Guess it killed me off for good.

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edit edit: Well okay, left the Asylum, without dying. Wow. Amazing. I think I'm going to not level up yet and start thinking about what kind of equipment I'll be using. Feel free to toss ideas for fun but not standard stuff at me.

[Lord Timster]

^ Nice. And screenies as well. What happened to your Sorcery run though?

...whenever I come back for New Game+ or just roll an entirely new character....

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As Beta intimated there is nothing inherently alluring about NG+ itself - it is basically just the exact same game albeit with a slight difficulty boost.

Having said that there were some things that I personally found interesting enough to keep playing:

In NG+ you get to face areas and bosses with equipment and spells you didn't have before. Sometimes this can allow for new tactics / options. You want revenge on those archers on the side of Anor Londo Cathedral? Now's your chance. Tired of Centipede Demon staying on the lava and not closing for melee? Try a Crystal Soul Spear barrage to liven the guy up a little.

Likewise you are now in a much better position to take advantage of the open map, and try out different routes to completing the game. This can also lead to hearing new dialogue from NPCs, which is cool.
Also note: the Master Key stays with you on NG+ even if you only bought it off a merchant.

As you play the game you will get 'diminishing returns' on levelling your primary adventuring stats so if you want to stay ahead of the curve you'll eventually want to experiment a bit, though this probably won't be an actual issue 'til around NG+3 or so. In the end I liked this, because discovering the coolness that was melee/sorcery powered me through several NG cycles all by itself.

Both the Asylum and, as TSD mentioned, the Taurus Demon bosses are vulnerable to one-shots on NG+. Makes a change to be the one handing out cheap one-shots, for sure.

Havel's Ring gives your Load a % boost so the higher your Endurance the better it gets. This lets you use more combinations of heavier weapons/shields and armour whilst still staying mobile.

As far as difficulty is concerned as long as you have a decent plan on how to keep your character 'powering up' and are prepared to re-tool equipment and spell load-outs to suit where you're going then you won't have a problem. Only boss I had grief from was 4 Kings, and that was because I spent ages messing around with Miracles, which didn't suit my playstyle, when I should have been boosting INT and collecting Sorcery.

At the end of the day though it really boils down to one thing:
Do you want to continue the story of your current character?

If you do, then go NG+. If you don't then restart.

(*edit: and by NG+ I mean NG+ and onwards...)

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Okay if I imagine him being intercepted by the player after meeting (or murdering, knowing him) Gwynevere and on his way back out of the Cathedral then I guess his corpse location makes more sense to me.

[MARS]

I've definitely been away for a long time, I've already died 3 times. Once because I was messing around, once to the Black Knight because parrying is no long in muscle-memory territory, and once because I've forgotten the Taurus Demon's attacks. smh tbh there was a time I could reliably get to Sen's without dying.

[The SheoDovah]

Use your fists. You may require the following: A pillow that can handle many rages, booze, a wall for punching, a ton of patience and Batman.

Try a Halberd/spear approach for most of the game and only levelling those stats that are related to the weapon. Use heavy or medium armour.

Or a two handed only run. Any weapon counts but must be two handed and play very aggressively.


Regarding the NPCs of DS1... ok, Dark Souls 1, I believe it's us that robs many of them of their sole remaining purpose.

Spoiler:

The pyromancer goes insane because we tell him where to find the Chaos flameball and ends up lost in the swamp thus going insane.

Rhea goes insane once she has taught you everything or is murdered.


Ah, parrying. I recall it being easy to master yet if you don't play the game for a while, it causes a few deaths.



There is a chance with NG+, you won't level up that much due to the requirements, compared to the first run. Nothing beats making your entrance like a single plunging attack that wipes out the first two bosses. Capra is probably the first one that can't really be curb stomped due to the arena but many of the bosses will be easier.

I wouldn't recommend trying to retool due to the sheer amount of souls you need to level up unless you are happy with your current stats. 10 levels in NG+ may take up until Blighttown depending on soul level.

I did hear that DSII's NG+ adds content, switches stuff up, which, I like the sound off. I have yet to do NG+ fully for DS1 as I just end up having my fill of it and not wanting to do another playthrough.

Ooo, Mars, try dual wielding greatswords.

Big Hat goes insane trying to become Seath or replicate his work.

Ok, it's been a while thus most NPCs, i forget.

Spoiler:

I don't think Lautrec died but escaped our world due to time being really messed up in Anor Londo thus killing the Firekeeper and being able to not be hunted down without the use of an orb.

Tarkus did fall to his death or was ganked to death by the painting guardians.

Beatrix, I could see her having been murdered if she wasn't fond of the Darkwraiths. Kirk, I heard that he only joined the Wraiths to help Queelana, Queelag's sister.

Anor Londo is a bad place to be an NPC in.

It is a good place to be a badass in. Unless you encounter super Ornstein, then it's a good place to weep and die.

[MARS]

I used to be gud.

Hidden:

[The SheoDovah]

Welcome back to Dark Souls!

Could be worse, you could have died to a basic hollow at a high level.

[BetaB17]

Spoiler:

Lautrec dies due to the wounds we inflict on him after we invade his world. Teaches him not to gank..

Per most of the vendors, they go hollow. And really, there is no benefit for you to allow that >_> killing their hollowed selves wont reward you with anything you don't already have. Honestly, it's just better to lie to them and let them live on in ignorance.

Except for Rhea, she's doomed one way or another. I would say letting her 'friend' murder her would be a pity.. But honestly, she has some nice spells to sell <_< Then again, you could always drain her humanity and kill her yourself before Seath gets ahold of her.

Anyways, out of some of the NPCs that you meet, DS1 probably has some of the more tragic and depressing ones.. Tho frankly speaking, DS2 seriously steps up with the npc summons and invaders. None of them quite reach the treachery of Lautrec or Chester, nor the touching sentiment of Kirk

Meh, at least DS2 gets Aldia. Probably the most badass fellow out there

[The SheoDovah]

Spoiler:

The saddest for me was the Onion knight. Sure, the NPCs were tragic but the Onion knight? He was capable, he was brave and was just exploring. Sadly, due to the Chosen Undead constantly saving him, it robs him of the one purpose he has and his daughter is forced to put him down.

It also reinforces the sheer amount of willpower that the Chosen Undead has. Potentially centuries in the Asylum, forced to fight all kind of beings and never end up going hollow. Though, they may have had a bit of an edge on account of being a descendant of the pygmy.

From what i've played of DSII, it seems to be going for the Demon Souls type NPCs in a central hub.

Gough is easily the strongest in game. No-one can cripple a dragon that even Anor Londo feared with one arrow.

I always help Queelag's sister even though I will always fight the Firesage, just because I want the souls that the boss gives. Always helps to level up.

I think, Leeroy should have not been a summon for the Pinwheel fight but the true Pinwheel. Pinwheel, himself is easy unless you hunt him down first. Leeroy as a boss would make for an interesting fight. Ignoring the Invader form.

Or a roided up version of Black Iron TARKUS as an invader in Anor londo as Anor's NPC invader.

[BetaB17]

Though, they may have had a bit of an edge on account of being a descendant of the pygmy.

Dude 1) Where the hell are getting THAT from and 2) All humans are descendants from the Pygmy

All that is special about our character in DS1 is that he's the first to overcome all the challenges and fulfill a vague prophecy. He was strong enough, or became strong enough. That's it.

[MARS]

There isn't even a prophecy. The prophecy is a sham to get more undead to offer themselves up as coals for the flame.

[The SheoDovah]

Not just strong enough, the CU was more skilled then the best Anor Londo had to offer and flat out refused to stay dead.

[BetaB17]

There isn't even a prophecy. The prophecy is a sham to get more undead to offer themselves up as coals for the flame.

Exactly. You are only the 'Chosen undead' if you fulfill the quest, but it's designed in a way to where many will try and fail. Many others came before you, and many others where guided just the same

It's a self fulfilling prophecy, even the manner by which it's set up is deliberately posed like a quest. I mean, eventually someone strong enough will come by and Link the fires, or at least that's what their hoping for. Might as well keep throwing hopeful fools till one of em works

Hell, even the undead curse and the true purpose of the bonfires and firekeepers is all a sham to cull what they can for fuel

[The SheoDovah]

Gwyn used it as a last resort to prolong his rule and presumably, try to prevent the abyss from spreading if he was aware of it. At least, spreading to Anor Londo. The Gwyn we fight is a hollowed out husk of a man but I do believe that if he was at his full power, we would not even be able to last 5 seconds against him.

The Chosen Undead may be a sham, may not. It is the only purpose for the hollows and it is rare for one to be found. Anyone could have been the Chosen Undead if they got past the demon that guards the exit.

Also, I may have stated it before but Dark Souls is a prime example of how to do tutorials well. Though, it does pretty much punch you in the eye and chucks you into it.

[Lord Timster]

"It was a lie, Morpheus. The prophecy was a lie. The One was never meant to end anything. It was all another system of control."

even the undead curse and the true purpose of the bonfires and firekeepers is all a sham to cull what they can for fuel

Is this revealed in DS3?

There is a chance with NG+, you won't level up that much due to the requirements, compared to the first run [...] I wouldn't recommend trying to retool due to the sheer amount of souls you need to level up unless you are happy with your current stats. 10 levels in NG+ may take up until Blighttown depending on soul level.

All I meant is that if you keep playing the game you will hit the soft caps sooner or later - at which point 'dual-classing' becomes a valid use of level-ups. Maybe I should edit the original post slightly to make that clearer.

Also wearing the Silver Serpent Ring, always picking up your bloodstain and avoiding awkward bosses until just after a level-up (just in case) helps keep those level-ups coming along.

[BetaB17]

Anyone could have been the Chosen Undead if they got past the demon that guards the exit.

There were. Your character, again, was not the first. Solaire for starters.

The real test comes to with ringing the Bells of Awakening and making it to Gwynnevier.. The later of which is damn near impossible

Also, just to state this >_>

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Gwyn is not all that powerful, especially given many regards. He shared much of his power with others, bestowing parts of his soul to his most loyal or valued allies.. So much so that he careless gave some(like the Four Kings or Seath) a fragment or by being too generous with such a finite power

Next up is that he I not all too different, he is just another being who claimed a Lordsoul, just like Nito and the Witch. Ya, maybe he was the herald to the next age and thru sunlight and lightning posed the greatest offense against the dragons.. He is not the strongest out of his peers. At the height of his power during the Age of Fire? Ya, probably. He probably was on par with the Witch of Izalith prior to the chaos flame. Bug after the fire started to fade, after his power waned? Unlike say, Nito's.. And as an antithesis, Manus and the coming darkness

Certainly, cant compared to giants and the humans, he was still the strongest god amongst gods. But the Chosen undead? He just killed and gathered all the other lordsouls. Murdered Nito in his tomb. Undid the Bed of Chaos when Gwyn could not. And hell, even more remarkably.. Killed Manus when the dark soul of man was probably at it's strongest

If the chosen undead became that powerful and was fueled by their souls, it makes all sense as to how Gwyn lost.. And why Fraampt was so keen on you Linking the flame

Still, if Gwyn and the others really where that powerful, you should see the Lord of Cinder.. Dude puts everyone to shame
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Also, a tid bit about Gwynn, and how he was both a genius to how he prolonged his Age of Fire.. And a fool for defying the natural order

It's hard to say what the First Sin really was. What it the act of linking the Fires, or the creation of the Undead curse?

First, I've already speaking well enough about the endless cycles of the First flame and how bad that truly was for the state of the world in the long term. Forcing an endless cycle of Light and Dark? Probably not his intention.. And having others follow in his footsteps probably didn't help either

Granted, after learning what happened to the Witch when she tried to make a new First Flame and instead was engulfed in chaos.. Ya, he was pretty much out of options. And ironically, even the Flame of Chaos is not exalted from fading in time.. Nor it's demons.. (Check out DS3 for context)

Anyways. What of the undead curse? This, in my honest opinion.. Had this been on it's own and been less linked to the fading cycles of the Fire.. Then this probably would of been the smartest thing Gwyn has ever did.

Somehow, Gwyn was able to bind humans to seek out the fire, to find comfort by the bonfires.. Despite in their very nature, being dark. What more, thru the dark soul of man, by feeding humanity to the bonfires.. Not only is Gwyn fueling the fire with darkness(a paradox by it's own right) but also turning a threat into a boon.. Especially when you consider fragments of the dark soul collectively make up the fourth lordsoul, which only grows stronger when the fire weakens

He effectively would of had the perfect fuel, he even built an entire religion around it, the Way of White. Hell, even with how the undead endlessly spawn back at the bonfires till they burn the last of their humanity in a futile attempt or go hollow.. Smart. Sort of

Aldia would say differently tho..

[Kerr]

I'm just going to say this here. While it may seem like a very important and essential fate in the first game.. The sequel readily explains that both choices are essentially worthless and the same result will occur

No matter what, the Fire will fade and Darkness will come

Well, I didn't think it would. You don't need a sequel to tell you that. "Soon the flames will fade and only dark will remain." You know that from the intro. The choice was never to prevent the age of fire, it was to postpone it. So the question you need to ask is, is it worth postponing it and if it is, is the price you need to pay worth it? Which, there's arguments for each.

Manus probably is the Furtive Pygmy. I mean for one thing he's the person mentioned in the intro who doesn't show up in the game at all. The absence is pretty notable.

But I'm sure I will be checking out more lore stuff. And whenever I replay Dark Souls I don't think I'll bother with NG+, I'd rather just roll up a new character. Probably a Sorcerer because it's something I didn't touch at all.

Also, I may have stated it before but Dark Souls is a prime example of how to do tutorials well.

The game never tells you how to jump. Jumping itself is really awkward actually, it's a part of the controls that's pretty poor especially in Blighttown.

[The SheoDovah]

You will be relying on soul arrows a lot as a sorcerer but i think, it is one of the few classes that can one hit kill hollows. I would recommend ditching the dagger asap or get really good at parrying.

Dark Souls lore is very open to interpretation and tis one of the few franchises that allows that.

I flat out refuse to risk jumps in Blighttown. Either the lag will decide that now is the time to make it's appearance or I land and am attacked by an enemy which sends me to my death. But I will admit, it is fun kicking people off it.

[Lord Timster]

I'm hoping all this will transfer well to a pen 'n' paper RPG. Been working on a campaign inspired by DS1&2 for if/when my D&D group gets back together.

I mean it's got a classic mystery/thriller start with the PCs just waking up in a cell in an old demon-haunted ruin with no memory of who they are or what they are supposed to be doing. Who are we? What are we doing here? And ...erm... why are we zombies?!?

Also I was looking for a lore-friendly reason to get the PCs to take on the "good guys" at the end. This thing about the bonfires being a sham, whether it's canon or fanon, fits the bill perfectly.

Should be cool.

(PC = Player Character, btw )

[MARS]

Got a nice titanite drop in the Burg, that upgrade's going to make things marginally quicker. Still haven't leveled up.

edit: yeah, didn't die at all this session. Killed the Taurus Demon, got some upgrades, killed the Black Knight with the Greatsword (got the sword too), got the Drake Sword for giggles and now I'm en route to the parish, from whence my path will branch off. I'm not in a hurry to ring any bells.

[The SheoDovah]

I find the drake sword to be meh, nowadays. Originally, it was my go to sword for everything up to Blighttown. Nowadays? I rather just use either the Battleaxe or the broadsword for that section. Usually end up with a refined version before I end up in lagtown. Though, the Claymore is worth dodging the dragon fire for. Tis pretty much a longsword in terms of moves.

[MARS]

Death count: 3. I've upgraded the Scimitar to +5, and I'm fast-rolling with it and the Balder Shield. I gave up trying to farm for a BALLER SWAG SWORD, freed Lautrec, and am currently heading into Darkroot Garden in order to get some things done without killing Capra. I want to go into the Catacombs while I can still meet Patches.

[Kerr]

I find the drake sword to be meh, nowadays. Originally, it was my go to sword for everything up to Blighttown. Nowadays? I rather just use either the Battleaxe or the broadsword for that section. Usually end up with a refined version before I end up in lagtown. Though, the Claymore is worth dodging the dragon fire for. Tis pretty much a longsword in terms of moves.

I think all I used the Drake Sword for was killing Havel which was useful. I used the master key and it would have taken a lot more backstabs with any other weapon at that point in the game.

Drake Sword seems like it could really screw you over in the long run, when it becomes outclassed if you don't have anything to replace it you're gonna have a bad time.

[BetaB17]

Drake Sword, considering at what stage of the game you find it >_> is seriously OP. Not BC it's scaling or moveset.. BC both of those are [&@%!]. Not, it's how high it's base damage is. You could feasibly go thru most of early/mid game and Anor Londo and find it more than enough

It really deserves to be a mid to end game loot, but seeing as you can find it so early.. It's basically a cheap handicap. Thankfully, it has little to no staying power, and quickly gets outclassed by the later game weapons

Edit: Also, to any of those whom have played DS2, and especially so with the DLC. All in all, this is a pretty well rounded summery of the events

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YouTube Link

Likewise, here's DS1 summery, something I do believe I have shared at one point or another

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YouTube Link

[Kestral]

Drake Sword, considering at what stage of the game you find it >_> is seriously OP. Not BC it's scaling or moveset.. BC both of those are [&@%!]. Not, it's how high it's base damage is. You could feasibly go thru most of early/mid game and Anor Londo and find it more than enough

It really deserves to be a mid to end game loot, but seeing as you can find it so early.. It's basically a cheap handicap. Thankfully, it has little to no staying power, and quickly gets outclassed by the later game weapons

Edit: Also, to any of those whom have played DS2, and especially so with the DLC. All in all, this is a pretty well rounded summery of the events

:

YouTube Link

Likewise, here's DS1 summery, something I do believe I have shared at one point or another

:

YouTube Link

I am not convinced players are supposed to be able to kill the dragon when they first encounter them, it is obviously a higher level enemy. Even the fire he breaths is enough to kill most characters because of their damage resistance and max health. The only ways I know of to fight him are cheese tactics involving shooting with him arrows. I think that the drake sword is at least mid-game loot, which, if the player has gotten that far, should be outclassed by their upgraded weaponry.

I honestly believe that the drake sword is supposed to be a weak weapon at the time you are supposed to find it, it's just that you can find it so much earlier.