Dark Souls

[BetaB17]

The problem with weapons in BB is it doesn't encourage you to try.. You basically get comfortable with a single item or strive to find it <_< DS? Your constantly trading up, even if a certain style or weapon type fits your preference.. Your eventually gonna have to trade up to the next best thing to compete with the difficulty curve. And hell, some areas and even bosses demand that you focus on certain damage types(Physical or not) if you want that much better of a chance to survive

Still, there is a drastic perspective shift between the two games, something that can be jarring to new players >_> in that DS rewards the more cautious, defensively sound that know better to pay attention for clues and not be overly aggressive. BB? Na, you gotta be quick and ferocious. Quicker than your foes, quick to counter. Ya, you still should look out for clues and danger.. But the distinct lack of peeking around with a shield and the general aggressive play is almost a 180• shift from DS players. Hence to why the two are hard to compare.. They both carry different perspectives and reward certain players for adapting to the demand. Tho by and all, I do appreciate DS3 taking inspiration and speeding up their combat a notch.. Really hammers in that dodge and defend aspect

[Kestral]

The problem with weapons in BB is it doesn't encourage you to try.. You basically get comfortable with a single item or strive to find it <_< DS? Your constantly trading up, even if a certain style or weapon type fits your preference.. Your eventually gonna have to trade up to the next best thing to compete with the difficulty curve. And hell, some areas and even bosses demand that you focus on certain damage types(Physical or not) if you want that much better of a chance to survive

Still, there is a drastic perspective shift between the two games, something that can be jarring to new players >_> in that DS rewards the more cautious, defensively sound that know better to pay attention for clues and not be overly aggressive. BB? Na, you gotta be quick and ferocious. Quicker than your foes, quick to counter. Ya, you still should look out for clues and danger.. But the distinct lack of peeking around with a shield and the general aggressive play is almost a 180• shift from DS players. Hence to why the two are hard to compare.. They both carry different perspectives and reward certain players for adapting to the demand. Tho by and all, I do appreciate DS3 taking inspiration and speeding up their combat a notch.. Really hammers in that dodge and defend aspect

I honestly dont know if DS encourages me too much to change my weapon variety. I usually do the same as I do in BB and hunt for and stick with a weapon.

[BetaB17]

Do you finish the game with the low-tier weapons? Or switch out for one with arguably better scaling/stats? (This of course is a nul answer for SL1 runs)

This also holds more weight in DS3, what with sword arts and some of the rarer weapons having arguably the best results(I.e Frieda's scythe so OP)

[Kestral]

Do you finish the game with the low-tier weapons? Or switch out for one with arguably better scaling/stats? (This of course is a nul answer for SL1 runs)

This also holds more weight in DS3, what with sword arts and some of the rarer weapons having arguably the best results(I.e Frieda's scythe so OP)

The hunter weapons at the start of the game are good enough to carry you through the whole game. Some players choose to stick with the saw cleaver, or axe, and by no means have to switch.

You can actually spec the cleaver with the right gems to be insanely strong.

[BetaB17]

Oh, I think there may have been a misunderstanding >_> I'm referring to DS weapons. With a large scale of variety, tiers, and traits.. Early game barely even scratches the surface. Hence why I said, less you were doing a SL1, it seems impractical to go thru the whole game with a low-tier weapon(Tho I must add, there are some early weapons with exceptional scaling given upgrades. But then again you already know what your build is then huh?)


BB? With such a small selection, and all being viable all in their own way, you can very well go thru the whole game with just one weapon. The trick weapons feel more unique and special, it only makes sense people will gravitate to their ideal favorite

[Kerr]

So I restarted Dark Souls this afternoon and I'm wondering if I'm better off using the Claymore or Zweihander (or Black Knight Greatsword I guess, I have one but reaching the Strength Requirement would take forever) as a weapon which is held in one hand with a shield in the other. I haven't reached the strength requirement for Zweihander yet but from what I've used I don't like the moveset as much as the Claymore, Claymore just seems quicker and you get a thrust which is useful for corridors.

Also can anyone tell me/have a guide for how attribute scaling and item upgrading works? I'm trying to keep myself mostly in the dark but these are mechanics I feel I don't fully understand. I know I can upgrade my weapons normally but then there's also some special way, that gives the weapons lighting damage or makes it divine, things like that. So basically, am I wasting souls and shards if I just upgrade my Claymore at the blacksmith in Undead Parish?

[The SheoDovah]

Use the Claymore. It is a balanced weapon and unlike most greatswords, you can thrust. The Zweihander is only suited for pure strength builds due to the limited amount of hits you can inflict with it. Sure, it'll floor most things but you better be able to hit again. The Claymore is quicker, I think upgrades well.

You're not wasting souls on upgrades. There's several catergories: Magic, Divine(useful for killing the undead), Fire, Lightning,Crystal(tis awful despite the increased damage due to it being a case of once it's breaks, it is gone.) and Raw. Raw allows up to +15 and useful for pure refinment. I would recommend being careful with elemental refinements as some things have resistances to. All of the DLC content laughs at magic and elemental damage. Once you reach Anor Londo(And the most fun bridge in the game), you will reach a blacksmith that does unique weapons with boss souls after upgrading certain weapons. E.g. Schimtars for Furysword. Divine is only useful for, i would say, one or two sections and that's just to permakill the skeletons. Chances are, by the time you reach that area, you will either found a divine weapon or do enough damage that they don't really pose an issue. That and one of the areas is perfect for sparta kicking foes. Fire refinement is in the realm of the dead and spinnywheels. You will learn to hate the spinny wheels. Some tank them but I prefer to take them out from a distance.

[Lord Timster]

@Kerr

You can improve most normal weapons/armour to +15. Some of the 'special' enhancements require a weapon to already be +5 (some of them need +10) to be 'converted'. Some of the more esoteric enhancements require a weapon to already have a specific enhancement to +5 level. (There are also some 'non-normal' weapons/armour that max out at +5, like the Black Knight stuff, and (iirc) cannot be enhanced.) There's some nice stuff over on wikidot that explains it all but has spoilers on, sadly.

Personally I found most of the 'special' enhancements to not be worth the trouble. Just a standard improvement worked fine. Only exception was Divine - pop that onto a 'bash' weapon like a mace and you are good to go vs skeletons.

The stat scaling tells you which stats you can increase to boost damage: Strength / Dexterity / Intelligence / Faith - and the letter tells you how effective that stat is at improving damage. S is best then you get A - E. So an A/E/-/- weapon gets a big benefit from improving Strength, less so from Dexterity, and INT, FAITH have no effect on it. An -/-/-/- weapon might have a big base damage but gets no boost from stats - so weapons with stat scaling will catch up with and exceed it as your stats get higher.
Soft caps for STR and DEX scaling are 20 and 40 - so even a weapon with A/E/-/- will probably benefit more from increasing DEX up to 20 than increasing STR over 40.

HTH?

[Kerr]

Thanks, that's really helpful. Just wasn't sure how those mechanics worked. I'll keep upgrading my Claymore and Patizan then, use them alongside the Grass Crest Shield.

I'm doing better now than I did when I first played Dark Souls. It's obvious but like, actually knowing the basics of the game from experience helps a lot. I started playing earlier today and while obviously I'm still not very good at Dark Souls, I've already defeated Capra and Havel. Didn't even defeat Havel the first time which is unfortunate because oh boy, his ring is amazing. Now I can actually use heavy armor because if I couldn't roll there's no way I'd touch the stuff.

In general I think it's really cool how much this game encourages, I don't want to say sequence breaking because that's not really it, but exploring in areas that you aren't strong enough/experienced enough for and exploiting your immortality to go on suicide runs to get gear. Poking around where I probably shouldn't be yet let me get all sorts of good things like the aformentioned Grass Crest Shield. The geography is also great, it reminds me a lot of Resident Evil. How interconnected everything in Lordran is, even with how weird it can be, just the sheer sense of place that it gives reminds me a lot of the Spencer Mansion.

[Kestral]

Wait hold up.
Is someone here not recommending the Zweihander over literally anything else?

I am not talking a +15 Zwei, or a +10 Lightning Zwei. I am not talking a raw or crystal Zwei.
I am talking two handed Chaos Zweihander.

You have not played DS1 until you've played the legend.

:

YouTube Link

[MARS]

I'm tempted to delete this entire thread

[Kestral]

Try it, marsipan.

[MARS]

LEGENDARY

[Kestral]

lol props to you for following through.

[MARS]

it's okay I changed it back

[BetaB17]

While personally not a big fan of pure Strength or slow weapons(see any of my previous posts here) I do feel the need to caution against the tanking mentality >_> raw power and defense cannot make up for skill, especially when dodging is not optional. This is no more evident when various boss fights occur(like Kalameet or Manus)

:

Btw, a word on weapon refinement. I am certain I've said this before But in regards to weapon upgrades, this should tell you what you need.

You have your standard upgrades that initially use basic titanite. You have the special upgrades which use the very rare twinkling titanite, boss weapon upgrades which use demon titanite, and lastly dragon upgrades which of course have the rarest resource.. The standard upgrades can go up to three tiers in increments of 5(15total max) while all the rest cap off at +5 but only ever use the same resource.

Boss weapons need to be forged by infusing the soul with an already upgraded weapon type(+10) but all in all that's the only unique thing about that tier

In the standard upgrade, you have Normal/Raw/Crystal/Lightning/Fire/Chaos/Magic/Enchant/Divine/Occult

For starters, all except for Normal will demote the average scaling for the weapon and typically increase it's associated stat. The downside to this is scaling is where you get the bulk of your damage, so unless your very low on Dex/Str or the weapon already has very poor scaling(when compared at +15 Normal) then by all means..

Still, word of caution. Raw and Crystal are the worst. Raw buffs up the overall damage while minimizing scaling. So like I said earlier, if the weapon already suffers from poor scaling, well, that's just free damage now But to your typical weapon it will just ruin it. Best to be avoided. Crystal likewise is not something to take lightly. You gain a massive increase on offense(or defense) but with the noticeable loss of one key feature >_> that weapon can no longer be repaired. Once it's gone, it's gone. Hence why the caution. It's only really viable when you need that extra lil buff to get thru a boss, but at the same time with a weapon you are non bit worried about losing

Now onto the other upgrades. Elemental. Namely Lightning and Fire. Their [&@%!], just gonna say it right now. They don't level all too great and lack potential. Only really viable for né ash moments or defense. Or for weapons already inherent to the element. Chaos is a bit different. Being a stronger version of fire, except the bulk of it's damage is scaled from how much Humanity you have(10 is the hardcap). This makes for a very viable and powerful upgrade, but all too feeble when you think about it

Divine and Occult depend on Faith as their main stat. And while Divine is really good for pesky skeletons(and will keep them down) Occult likewise is just [&@%!] and seems to only be viable against certain bosses.. So really not all that worth it. Still, like Kestral said, keeping a good Divine weapon for those skeletons will do alot of good. Tho to remind ya on this, the game does provide a straight sword with inherent divine damage just for that reason

Magic and Enchantment serve as an interesting choice. While both preform Magic damage, they rely on different scaling. Magic boosts Intelligence while Enchanted nukes Dex/Str(I think) Both are viable for Magic users tho to which one is better is entirely dependent on the build.

Probably the best upgrade, Standard is both the easiest to adhere to and brings the most benefit. As of course, it boosts up scaling, and with it capping off at +15.. You can get some of the best weapons in game.

Also a last reminder, all of the standard upgrades use in respective tiers.. Shards, large shards, chunks, and then slabs. There are about four different variants, with some rarer than others.

Why do I say this? Well, titanite slabs are not only the rarest.. But you will be lucky to get one per each type in a play through. So know before you use it on which weapon/armor you want maxed. All the other resources are farmable, slabs are not

Anyways, here's a chart for DS1

[Kestral]

Honestly, Ds1 is broken with high poise builds. You don't need to roll when nothing phases you. My dad build was the easiest the game ever was. Stagger Gwynn. Stagger Gwyn all enemies. Never get staggered yourself. Even Manus was easy with the dad build.

[BetaB17]

But I ask, you already knew how to play? Yes? It wasn't a clutch build right from the first play through? And how the shortcomings of that overreliance can be detrimental to a new player(especially going into BB/DS3)

Smashing Havel ain't everything, even if it seems so easy

[Kestral]

But I ask, you already knew how to play? Yes? It wasn't a clutch build right from the first play through? And how the shortcomings of that overreliance can be detrimental to a new player(especially going into BB/DS3)

Smashing Havel ain't everything, even if it seems so easy

I'll concede part of it to you then. My first build was DEX or bust with the uchigatana. However, the Dad build was fun.

[BetaB17]

It is fun to be OP >_> even my Dex fellow can Dad it up. Still, nothing can top my love for the Great Scythe, especially with that Darkmoon buff <3

Edit:

Usually heavy melee shield and sword. I usually work my way up to wielding ultra greatswords and nothing survives their encounters with me.

Something tells me my dude would in her PvP gear.. other than that shes a glass cannon<_< unless your an uber tank(insane HP+Havel on steroids+more tank). My build focused on PvE thus I often suffer to a degree when invaded without prep. I often aid ppl in zones like Tomb of the Gaints or invade with befitting attune slots. Btw, in pvp hot spots I wont shy away from ambush/hide tactics, given the odds of ganks. So dont expect a honest dual less I know the odds are actually fair(very rare). By far I hate uber tanks, pure mages, 1hit KOs, tank gankers, and backstab fishers.

Hidden:

Namely a Dex build with a good following of pyro, minor in Faith(healing+homeward) and Int(Gear buffs+Dark) and almost always a preference to pole-arm weapons. Stats focused more on stamina than HP, thus good defense is key. My main is a Great Scythe given the range, move set, and insane scaling. Its easy to grab at start and a beast if you know how to use it, buff with Darkmoon when serious. My main shield is the Grass(has the stamina buff) and is pretty standard less I need my Artorias Greatshield especially for bosses n PvP(Slap a great magic shield buff just bc).

Rarely will I ever resort to my Falcion or gravelord sword when my spell Gravelord Greatsword Dance or Dark beads(aka shotgun/tank killer) can catch you off guard. Havel ring is an always, preferred 2nd to be the one with the stamina buff or poise especially in PvP. Armor for PvE is Childs mask, Elite Knight legs/boots/gauntlet, and the Sealers robe(like the red dude near 4kings). PvP is Childs mask, havel gauntlets, rest is Elite Knight. Most gear fully maxed n nothing special.

The big pro is how hard it is to stagger me yet how easy it is to do the same to others more so is if I catch you side dodgin, forget how high the damage stacks or how easy to combo or switch movesets to punish a parry attempt. Again glass cannon.. dont underestimate the damage. And certainly dont underestimate my stamina regen =_=

Also props to Mars

[Kerr]

Thanks Beta, I'll refer to that table throughout the game.

I'm not married to the Claymore, I do like it and I'm fairly confident that I don't want to use huge Greatswords because I like the Claymore's moveset more. And they'd be too slow. But that is a moveset shared by the longsword and shortsword. So even if a weapon like the longsword would have less range, it would be faster and I could potentionally see myself swapping over to a straight sword variant if I ever find one that's better than the Claymore. I did find one down in the Valley of the Drakes, Astora's Straight Sword (Master Key leads to me poking around a lot) but I'm not planning to put points in Faith so I'm not going to use it. But yeah, there probably is some awesome straight sword variant that can swing and thrust.

Also I'm using the Winged Spear which is Dex based, Claymore is C in both and I might like the Scythe or some other straight sword whenever I find that. So maybe Dex is the way to go when it comes to weapon attributes. At the moment I just reached the minimum requirements for my main weapons so I'll see what I invest in later but it probably will be Dex. Oh, I'm also using Pyromancy with Fireballs and Fire Orbs which is sweet.

Just about to head into Blightown now so hopefully I can get past Senorita Spider Lady which is where I abandoned my first playthrough.

[BetaB17]

Tho I doubt you would find it without a guide, but you may also like the Gravelord curved sword. It's a curved greatsword and does have a thrust power attack <_< stat requirements are fairly low. Sadly it's only viable as a mid/early-game weapon

[Kestral]

Just about to head into Blightown now so hopefully I can get past Senorita Spider Lady which is where I abandoned my first playthrough.

:

maybe you should try the shortcut that almost entirely bypasses it by using the Valley of the Drakes entrance?

[BetaB17]

But how else will he experience the gloriousness that is it's frame rate D:

[Kestral]

But how else will he experience the gloriousness that is it's frame rate D:

I actually never have experienced that. Though I did use the back entrance at first, unintentionally.