Unjustified Skepticism?

[IcarusBen]

I was playing through Morrowind when I noticed something odd when Caius first tells you that the Emperor believes you to be Nerevarine. He acts skeptical.

Now, you might say that it's natural to be skeptical. After all, it's not everyday that an ancient Chimer warlord is reincarnated in the modern age. That would be reasonable... If not for the source of the Emperor's belief. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't the Emperor get this belief from the Elder Scrolls? As in, those artifacts of great mysticism that are known to be prophetic and/or exist outside of Time. But wait, there's more. Let's take a look at Nirn. If it were more realistic, I would buy the skepticism. But Tamriel is just weird. Three living gods, a disease that turns you into a helpless slave to a fourth god, floating asteroids, wizards older than most empires, gems that steal souls, walking trees, a magic cowl that makes you totally forgotten, ancient scrolls that exist outside of normal Time, the power of yelling as magic, mortals turning into gods, the destruction an entire race in a single instant, magic robots, Time itself breaking, all that is perfectly reasonable. But reincarnation? That's just [&@%!]. The same goes for the dragons.

Why do the people of Tamriel accept so many other, infinitely more ridiculous things, but draw the line at dragons and reincarnation?

[Tingz0r]

Because writing for this series must be very difficult, and the term "good enough" must get a lot of mileage at Bethesda.

[Dark Spark]

Is he skeptical about reincarnation in general, or that Nerevar decided to pop in while wearing the meatsuit standing in front of him?

If I believe the spirit of Christmas is real, I would still be justifiably skeptical if a swarthy weed of a man with prison tats and dreadlocks knocked on my door and told me he was Santa Claus. Now, if I ended up helping him bail his sleigh out of an impound yard and we met an elf handing him a collective bargaining agreement from the North Pole workshop, we'd have a more interesting story.



As for dragons, the notion that they've existed is readily accepted. They've had evidence. The trick is that dragons were supposed to be extinct (and, with the exception of Parthy, they indeed were).

The sight of Alduin landing atop that guard tower at Helgen was akin to the sight of a T-Rex roaring down the beach of Normandy during the D-Day landings. A resounding "WTF?" from Private Ryan and friends would be the appropriate response.

[legoless]

Dark Spark is entirely correct, Caius is is skeptical of you being a reincarnated saint. You also have to understand that most common folk don't encounter too many metaphysical happenings on a regular basis, even if they are a spymaster of the Blades.

Also, no, Emperor Uriel did not learn of the Nerevarine by reading an Elder Scroll. His dragon blood granted him the gift of divine Sight, which is tied to fate but isn't comparable to a Scroll. If you read the orders Caius received, you'll see that belief in the prophecy was immaterial and his job was to make this prisoner fit the role of Nerevarine for the purpose of taming the province. Of course Uriel probably saw portents of Dagoth Ur's menace and blah blah blah all the rest of it, but to Caius it was a simple matter of playing upon local superstition to place an Imperial puppet in a position of immense political and religious power.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Caius is paid to be skeptical. He's a Spymaster and a very practical man who has a lot of field experience. I'm sure he's fully aware of both the weirder aspects of Tamriel, and of how unlikely that a scrub like you were at the time would be one of them.

[LugkAgumbuk]

Caius is paid to be skeptical. He's a Spymaster and a very practical man who has a lot of field experience. I'm sure he's fully aware of both the weirder aspects of Tamriel, and of how unlikely that a scrub like you were at the time would be one of them.

Indeed. Good ole' Caius

[The SheoDovah]

To be fair, Dragons have disappeared from memory and most of Tamriel don't pay attention to Nord history. And even they have forgotten about the dragon. Hearing about one of them returning without proof is going to be hard to believe. As Dark Spark said, they were believed to be wiped out and the last offical kill of one was recorded either in the 3rd or 2nd era. Alduin kinda gave them massive proof that they returned and dragons start to attack parts of Skyrim. The Dragonborn kinda has it easy in terms of proof.

"Oh, me? Yeah, i'm the Dragonborn. Here is my proof." Uses the voice with ease. Reincarnation is well, hard to prove and i wouldn't be surprised if there has been a dozen "Nevars" all over history that turned out to be fraudsters. The Voice has evidence and well, Skyrim has it's Greybeards who serve as proof.

[Crawldragon]

i wouldn't be surprised if there has been a dozen "Nevars" all over history that turned out to be fraudsters.

I never finished Morrowind, but I believe there is a group in the local temples dedicated to weeding out fake Nerevar, which implies that it's such a problem in the province that someone had to deal with it. This also ties in nicely with some of the temple quests from Daggerfall where a random guy with a sword can get paid to club a false prophet over the head.

It seems prophecies in Tamriel are a lucrative market, presumably because the legitimate faiths of the Empire are so metaphysical and strange and the magic that high-level wizards can rain down so devastating that it's easy to get lulled into a scam, especially with the Thieves Guild and other criminal organizations basically offering lessons to members on how to be a good con artist.

Plus let's not forget that even according to the in-game lore the nature of gods and magic is still largely unknown, and the mages and scholars who study them are very much in over their heads, which is why so much as looking at the text of an Elder Scroll can literally blind you.

[The SheoDovah]

Yep. For all of Tamriel in the year 201 of the fourth era knows, the Dovahkiin could just be Ulfric Stormcloak or another false imposter trying to start something. I mean, 200 years since the last Dragonborn then suddenly and rather conviently, one appears just as Ulfric is about to be killed or during a civil ar. Would be hard to believe outside Skyrim.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

i wouldn't be surprised if there has been a dozen "Nevars" all over history that turned out to be fraudsters.

I never finished Morrowind, but I believe there is a group in the local temples dedicated to weeding out fake Nerevar, which implies that it's such a problem in the province that someone had to deal with it. This also ties in nicely with some of the temple quests from Daggerfall where a random guy with a sword can get paid to club a false prophet over the head.

It seems prophecies in Tamriel are a lucrative market, presumably because the legitimate faiths of the Empire are so metaphysical and strange and the magic that high-level wizards can rain down so devastating that it's easy to get lulled into a scam, especially with the Thieves Guild and other criminal organizations basically offering lessons to members on how to be a good con artist.

Plus let's not forget that even according to the in-game lore the nature of gods and magic is still largely unknown, and the mages and scholars who study them are very much in over their heads, which is why so much as looking at the text of an Elder Scroll can literally blind you.

There's actually an entire cave of Failed Incarnates during the main quest. They all lament that "I was not the one", but they have cool personalities and backstories, and their ghosts will share the loot they garnered during their failed campaign with the PC.

In my mind, this always had a meta/fourth wall interpretation as well. These are either other players, or previously deleted/forgotten characters of the Godhead/You. I like playing around with concepts like that in my own D&D games and when I muck around in RPG maker. It's a fascinating concept, the idea that you've been here before but you don't remember, but you left a little something behind to remind yourself the next time around.

[The SheoDovah]

I did not know that and it is a nice touch. Shame they didn't do the same or throw in a false Dragonborn in Skyrim. But oh well.

Nevaraine is kinda hard to prove and could be seen as taking the mikey by another race. E.g. A nord claims to be the Nevaraine could be seen as mocking. Imperial Nevarine would be seen as imperial bull.

The Dragonborn is easy to prove who they was. Kill a dragon or use the Thu'uum. The COC, in theory could be very hard to believe as anyone could impersonate them but Cyrodiil seems to have a good idea of who they are.

[Dark Spark]

The Champion of Cyrodiil gets through on their own merits. That, and from Jauffre's inability to get anything done on his own. What a total screw-up!

[Damon]

I did not know that and it is a nice touch. Shame they didn't do the same or throw in a false Dragonborn in Skyrim. But oh well.

Nevaraine is kinda hard to prove and could be seen as taking the mikey by another race. E.g. A nord claims to be the Nevaraine could be seen as mocking. Imperial Nevarine would be seen as imperial bull.

The Dragonborn is easy to prove who they was. Kill a dragon or use the Thu'uum. The COC, in theory could be very hard to believe as anyone could impersonate them but Cyrodiil seems to have a good idea of who they are.

Azura blessed her champion Nerevar's ring, Moon-and-Star. Only Lord Nerevar himself could wear the ring, and if anyone else attempted to do so the ring would kill them.

A unique, one-of-a-kind ring that has been blessed by Azura offers a great deal of persuasive value on the case of reincarnation of the Nerevarine. And, Azura herself condemned the Tribune's for using the Heart of Lorkhan and said that one day she'd send her champion to make things right again.

Hierographa or Apographa when it comes to your beliefs on the Tribunes, it's understood by all that in Nerevar's time, he was Azura's champion and the Daedric Prince looked after him and their people before the rise of the Tribunal Temple.

We can't say for certain if the other reincarnations were true reincarnations who just met untimely deaths, or if they were put forward to the test by the Ashlanders but were never meant to succeed, but the fact of the matter is that in 3E 427 a previously unknown person came into possession of Indoril Nerevar's ring and despite the legends that Moon-and-Star can only be worn by Nerevar himself, is able to wear it and fulfilled the prophecies to unite the Dunmer houses and tribes against the opposition of the Temple towards the heretical Nerevarine who'd upend the status quo the Tribunes held since Nerevar's death.

I think it's safe to say that the Nerevarine was easily proven and that it's hard to disprove that he's the Nerevarine or establish another one as a true Nerevarine and not a false one.

There's even a Temple quest, where you're sent to suppress a false Nerevarine, and if you possess Moon-and-Star, that's a means to resolve the quest, by proving to the false incarnate that you're Nerevar. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:False_Incarnate