Fallout 4

[Baloth-Kul]

So i shouldn't care about the lore of TES or fallout then?

No, you should just stop being a stick in the mud.

[legoless]

I also thought being able to build an entire vault is pretty nonsensical. I'm sure it'll be fun for those who like the settlement stuff, but it seems to me like Bethesda is going off the rails a little in their sandbox frenzy. Seems a bit like one dude building an entire Dwarven ruin in TES. It's daft!

[The SheoDovah]

I am not being a stick in the mud. Just voicing my opinion in a game that i intend to get when I have the means to in a thread about said game and I love lore. Often read a lot of it when i'm playing one of teh franchise's game.

[Br3admax]

Maybe we should see what it's actually about before jumping to conclusions.

[Kerr]

It's a weird thing how you're allowed jump to optimistic positive conclusions but not pessimistic negative ones. People who think it's going to be good don't know it'll be good for certain either.

With all of the stuff the workshop already allows us to build, it's not truly that far fetched to be able to build a vault. There are other things in the game that could be held as justifications for the Sole Survivor to build a vault. But maybe you'll figure that out when you someday play the game instead of talking about things you're not aware of??? Just saying.

And Nuka World looks pimp. I'm pretty sure Chloe might become a raider. I mean...why not? Dear settlements, your general has gone rogue.

Seconded. Getting hung up on lore or realism in a world where there are mutants and power armor is really...really missing the point of Fallout, or gaming in general.

Does it turn out Todd Howard was right, Fallout really is all about killing people to 50s music? I think getting hung up on story and lore stuff is pretty important, that's a huge appeal of Fallout. Although you are right in that Bethesda don't care about that stuff very much. That's why we get things like ghoul child stuck in fridge for 210 years. Remember how you could make all the ghouls in Fallout 1 die of thirst if you take their water chip? Bethesda don't. Or do and don't care. Which is at least part of why I like Bethesda Fallouts less than Black Isle/Obsidian ones, those different design priorities. I mean I still like Fallout 4 but I like it for different reasons than I like the other games . Also I think you can incorporate the good elements of Fallout 4 while maintaining more core elements of what attracts people to the series *cough* New Vegas *cough*

The settlement building in Fallout 4 isn't that great but it's more likely we're renovating an existing vault than making a brand new one. Or at least I hope it is. I'm really not that optimistic for any of the building DLC because the interface you need to use to build in Fallout 4 is already annoying, its hardly going to change it that much but I doubt it'll be bad. I imagine it'll be fine. Hopefully Nuka World will be good, I do like the premise a lot.

[The SheoDovah]

I agree with Kerr. Fallout has always been more then killing mutants, looting and doing quests. Bethesda seems to have either a laid back attitude to Fallout or kinda don't care about doing decent stories or having the same amount of attention to the lore as they would have in TES. If it's renovating an existing vault, it's acceptable in the lore. I mean, Vault City more or less turned their vault into a glorified power generator. The ghoul child was [&@%!] stupid. If Obsidian did it, it would be [&@%!] stupid. I dislike Bethesda Ghouls because, well, they seem to be generic zombies. Fallout ghouls are not. Granted, the addition of feral ones was a nice touch and added a bit of mystery but still, more ferals then friendly ghouls. Fallout is about rebuilding and moving on in a post nuclear wasteland. It's about the people, the lives, the struggles and the 50's version of the future.

They should have used an original theme instead of NUKA COLA! because well, it's like Coke having their own theme park. Just very silly. Can see why they played it safe and I do hope it's not going to take itself seriously.

Do hope Obsidian(if they get any spare time due to their projects) will handle another Fallout game on the west coast.

[Br3admax]

It's a weird thing how you're allowed jump to optimistic positive conclusions but not pessimistic negative ones. People who think it's going to be good don't know it'll be good for certain either.

Is this supposed to be in response to me? Because I've made exactly one, now two, post in this thread. I don't jump to conclusions in either direction.

I agree with Kerr. Fallout has always been more then killing mutants, looting and doing quests. Bethesda seems to have either a laid back attitude to Fallout or kinda don't care about doing decent stories or having the same amount of attention to the lore as they would have in TES. If it's renovating an existing vault, it's acceptable in the lore. I mean, Vault City more or less turned their vault into a glorified power generator.

No...no, they didn't. It sounds a lot like you are the one who doesn't know about Fallout.

The ghoul child was [&@%!] stupid. If Obsidian did it, it would be [&@%!] stupid.

Which is weird because the original Fallout had a ghoul child in it. Not that lore isn't supposed to change. Retcons aren't bad just because they're bad.

I dislike Bethesda Ghouls because, well, they seem to be generic zombies. Fallout ghouls are not. Granted, the addition of feral ones was a nice touch and added a bit of mystery but still, more ferals then friendly ghouls.

The original Fallout and Fallout 2 also had feral ghouls. Not to mention, there would obviously be more feral ghouls if they all formed in areas of high radiation and in groups.

Fallout is about rebuilding and moving on in a post nuclear wasteland. It's about the people, the lives, the struggles and the 50's version of the future.

They should have used an original theme instead of NUKA COLA! because well, it's like Coke having their own theme park. Just very silly. Can see why they played it safe and I do hope it's not going to take itself seriously.

What are you even complaining about here? You have no idea what the dlc is about and just jumped to a random complaint about it.

Do hope Obsidian(if they get any spare time due to their projects) will handle another Fallout game on the west coast.

Fun fact, while I find NV better than Fallout 4 in most of the ways that I care about, all of your complaints about Bethesda Fallout games are even more apparent in it.

[Kerr]

I think what Bethesda does well it does well and what it does well is where their proprieties lie. They make these big open worlds where you can explore a bunch of areas, fight enemies, collect loot, customize your character in what they're good and how they look. And Fallout 4 was a Bethesda game with good companions for once and combat was better than ever. While I have some problems with the crafting system I do like it overall. The games they make are mostly unique to Bethesda, nobody else really makes games like that. I just wish they cared more about other things as well. This doesn't mean those elements are entirely non-existent, they aren't.

I linked it ages ago but Chris Franklin who makes Errant Signal made a really good video on Fallout 4 which talks more about this and it kind of encapsulates my feelings on the game. Basically it discusses the tension between what Fallout has always been and the sort of games Bethesda like to make. Fallout 4 was what I thought it would be for better and worse. It'll definitely be interesting to see where Bethesda go in the future.

It's a weird thing how you're allowed jump to optimistic positive conclusions but not pessimistic negative ones. People who think it's going to be good don't know it'll be good for certain either.

Is this supposed to be in response to me? Because I've made exactly one, now two, post in this thread. I don't jump to conclusions in either direction.

No it wasn't in response to you, sorry if it came across like it did.

[The SheoDovah]

Again, i agree with Kerr.

Personally, i think Bethesda are weak at story telling and can make some questionable decisions with some things but open world RPG is their thing. They influenced Bioware and Bioware is rarely influenced by other developers, i think. Bethesda does the freedom well in their RPGs. Want to be Archmage? Go ahead. Want to be head of every guild? Sure. Want to build a house in an hour? Sure. They give us the game to mess around in. Plots are kinda lacklustre. At least, the one's i've experienced.(3, Oblivion, Skyrim) or have a disappointing endgame. But they are weak story tellers. I think they know this and always go out of their way to ensure that we are spoilt for content in their games. They are not afraid to experiment.

Bethesda are among my favourite publishers and developers. I mean, Dishonoured, Doom(they more or less saved it by letting ID Software do what they wanted to instead of the er... rather crappy looking Doom 4 before being rebooted and bring back Doom in it's glory) and have good development studios either under them or working with them.

[Dohva.]

I'm looking at it from a lore point. Vault Tec had the means, resources and cash to build vaults. It took them years to complete them and well, kinda hard to believe that one person can build an entire vault using scrap. Gameplay wise, tis excellent. Lore wise? Kinda breaks it but it's catch 22, i suppose.

I will play the game one day. Just a tiny thing preventing me from doing so. No cash, no way of playing it. Just saying.

Check it out, spoilers ahead so read at your own risk.

Spoiler:

Use your imagination a little. It's not one person building the settlements and the vault. The sole survivor is the leader, but there are many, many people who live in those settlements. People who--by the way--are called on the radio beacon "willing to work". The settlers are given tasks. Maybe YOU the person playing the actual game is building everything in workshop mode but in real life would that be possible?

No. There are other people helping you build those settlements. The settlers, Preston, your followers who live at the settlements. The vault isn't going to be built by one person. It'll be built by a team of people who want to live in it. That's how it happens when you set up the radio beacon; the settlers come, you give them assignments, have your followers carry materials for you, etc.

I agree with you about Vault-Tec, but since you haven't played the game you wouldn't also know that one of their reps remains alive in Boston as a ghoul who lives in your settlement (wherever you send him to). There's one person with intimate knowledge of the vaults. The sole survivor has access to Vault 111. There are numerous vaults all around Boston with computers and journals of the inside operations of the vaults. You can use those as plans to make your own vault. Now, is all that really far fetched? If you have the sole survivor who knows how to build settlements and direct people, then would it be really that hard to use Vault Tec Rep to help you? Would it be that hard to find plans for making the vault inside one of the many that are still intact all over the Wasteland? Or even the Vault Tec offices that SURVIVED the bombs?

There's plenty to justify this. Plenty. But it takes hours of gameplay to understand the little things that Reddit doesn't tell you.

*EDIT: wanted to add Vault 81! A still thriving vault with an overseer who would be an amazing resource to help you build.

It's a weird thing how you're allowed jump to optimistic positive conclusions but not pessimistic negative ones. People who think it's going to be good don't know it'll be good for certain either.

Is this supposed to be in response to me? Because I've made exactly one, now two, post in this thread. I don't jump to conclusions in either direction.

I believe this is in response to me so for whoever has a question about it, you can PM directly and I'll gladly go into reasons with you. I'm not trying to censor anyone. I have my reasons so I welcome you to just simply ask what's up.

[legoless]

Check it out, spoilers ahead so read at your own risk.

Spoiler:

Use your imagination a little. It's not one person building the settlements and the vault. The sole survivor is the leader, but there are many, many people who live in those settlements. People who--by the way--are called on the radio beacon "willing to work". The settlers are given tasks. Maybe YOU the person playing the actual game is building everything in workshop mode but in real life would that be possible?

No. There are other people helping you build those settlements. The settlers, Preston, your followers who live at the settlements. The vault isn't going to be built by one person. It'll be built by a team of people who want to live in it. That's how it happens when you set up the radio beacon; the settlers come, you give them assignments, have your followers carry materials for you, etc.

I agree with you about Vault-Tec, but since you haven't played the game you wouldn't also know that one of their reps remains alive in Boston as a ghoul who lives in your settlement (wherever you send him to). There's one person with intimate knowledge of the vaults. The sole survivor has access to Vault 111. There are numerous vaults all around Boston with computers and journals of the inside operations of the vaults. You can use those as plans to make your own vault. Now, is all that really far fetched? If you have the sole survivor who knows how to build settlements and direct people, then would it be really that hard to use Vault Tec Rep to help you? Would it be that hard to find plans for making the vault inside one of the many that are still intact all over the Wasteland? Or even the Vault Tec offices that SURVIVED the bombs?

There's plenty to justify this. Plenty. But it takes hours of gameplay to understand the little things that Reddit doesn't tell you.

*EDIT: wanted to add Vault 81! A still thriving vault with an overseer who would be an amazing resource to help you build.

See this entry. It took a futuristic company months of mechanised construction to build a vault. It doesn't matter if you make believe that a big army of wastelanders is lugging the steel for you, it simply isn't realistic for something like that to be put together, blueprints or no blueprints. To me it seems clear that they're going for the gimmicky appeal of being a vault overseer since it worked so well in Fallout Shelter, even though half the allure of the vaults is that they were built by Vault-Tec for the purpose of experimentation. A bunch of ragtag farmers building a new one in the exact same style? Wtf is that.

You can justify your own headcanon if you like, but something like this doesn't fly without an actual in-game explanation, and a really good one at that. And I'm speaking as someone who's pretty uninvested in the world of Fallout (but pretty fed up with Bethesda's creative design decisions).

[Dohva.]

We can agree to disagree. I'm not completely ignorant on Fallout lore given that I've played a few of the games. I see it as something possible, but at the same time I get where you're coming from.

But from a gamer's perspective, there were so many things in Skyrim that weren't explained by lore either. All I care about is that it's fun at this point. Will it be? I have no clue. I don't typically get myself tangled up in excitement about these sorts of things. I just load the game and play like the zombie the govt wants me to be.

[The SheoDovah]

Hidden:

I'm looking at it from a lore point. Vault Tec had the means, resources and cash to build vaults. It took them years to complete them and well, kinda hard to believe that one person can build an entire vault using scrap. Gameplay wise, tis excellent. Lore wise? Kinda breaks it but it's catch 22, i suppose.

I will play the game one day. Just a tiny thing preventing me from doing so. No cash, no way of playing it. Just saying.

Check it out, spoilers ahead so read at your own risk.

Spoiler:

Use your imagination a little. It's not one person building the settlements and the vault. The sole survivor is the leader, but there are many, many people who live in those settlements. People who--by the way--are called on the radio beacon "willing to work". The settlers are given tasks. Maybe YOU the person playing the actual game is building everything in workshop mode but in real life would that be possible?

No. There are other people helping you build those settlements. The settlers, Preston, your followers who live at the settlements. The vault isn't going to be built by one person. It'll be built by a team of people who want to live in it. That's how it happens when you set up the radio beacon; the settlers come, you give them assignments, have your followers carry materials for you, etc.

I agree with you about Vault-Tec, but since you haven't played the game you wouldn't also know that one of their reps remains alive in Boston as a ghoul who lives in your settlement (wherever you send him to). There's one person with intimate knowledge of the vaults. The sole survivor has access to Vault 111. There are numerous vaults all around Boston with computers and journals of the inside operations of the vaults. You can use those as plans to make your own vault. Now, is all that really far fetched? If you have the sole survivor who knows how to build settlements and direct people, then would it be really that hard to use Vault Tec Rep to help you? Would it be that hard to find plans for making the vault inside one of the many that are still intact all over the Wasteland? Or even the Vault Tec offices that SURVIVED the bombs?

There's plenty to justify this. Plenty. But it takes hours of gameplay to understand the little things that Reddit doesn't tell you.

*EDIT: wanted to add Vault 81! A still thriving vault with an overseer who would be an amazing resource to help you build.

There is quite a difference between reps and construction. That's like saying that a car salesman knows how to rebuild a car and has the blue prints. He just sells spots for Vault Tec(depending on vault and experiement etc..).

Vault 111 having plans kinda makes no sense due to it's experiments. It's well, it is Vault Tec so them being daft enough to do that wouldn't surprise me. So far, we know little to nothing about the vault DLC. Maybe, it will work in the same way as the settlements, maybe not. But from a lore standpoint, it shouldn't be possible. Sure, Vault Tec offices exist in Washington(Which was techincally nuked to oblivion and was retconed by Bethesda, which did save the franchise). Vault Tec is dead and i'm certain the Enclave would have made sure to recover any blueprints as part of their resettle the entire wasteland by wiping it out and having the knowledge to do so would be handy. They are big enough to do it. The Sole Survivor with a handful of people isn't and a vault is very complex. Bethesda will probably go the Hearthstone route. And why would Vault 81 be interested in building another vault?

Granted, i haven't played the game due to life deciding to be [&@%!] in the last year or so and delaying many of my ambitions but that does not mean i can't look at stuff from a lore point. And Fallout is one of the few franchise's that bothers with a lot of lore. Bethesda probably won't bother with putting in a decent reason in the gameplay as they are a bit meh with their approach to lore. Vaults, to me are just impossible to replicate and should have remained a lost secret of the old world. Renovating is the best way to handle the vault. Building an entire new one when Vault Tec(if i recall correctly, not 100%) struggled in some areas to get enough materials to complete the vaults is too far fetched with just a bunch of wastelanders. Some can barely maintain their guns. Gameplay wise? It's a neat thing. Lore wise? A massive mistake.

I will check it out and is on my list of games to get. I rarely get to discuss current gen games and Fallout is a favourite franchise of mine. I feel i can keep discussing it in this thread due to the announcements made by Bethesda.

[Kerr]

Definitely wait for the Complete edition, whatever they end up calling the version with all the DLC and base game.

Personally I wouldn't want to set up a Vault Experiment playing my character. Or playing as a person with any sense of right and wrong. Like Vault Tec and its experiments are super evil, it's something you shouldn't do to people and I wouldn't want to replicate it. Having a settlement in a Vault is fine, subjecting people to those social experiments isn't. Although if I didn't care about right and wrong, I could make a Vault where the experiment is there are no doors. Like there are still individual rooms but none of those rooms have doors, nothing but archways. The only door is the front door.

[The SheoDovah]

Yep. It's £40 for a season pass over here in England. That will be the same price as the Complete/Ulitmate/GOTY/Vault Tec/whatever they call it edition. I dislike the idea of paying £80 for a game and DLC when i can merely outwait the DLC and get it all on one disc.

[Dohva.]

You can justify your own headcanon if you like, but something like this doesn't fly without an actual in-game explanation, and a really good one at that. And I'm speaking as someone who's pretty uninvested in the world of Fallout (but pretty fed up with Bethesda's creative design decisions).

I just wanted to add that we can also look at this from a marketing perspective. Bethesda prides itself on listening to what their fans want; specifically with Fallout 4 it's something they've mentioned quite a bit (feedback, that is). So from a marketing perspective maybe it makes sense for them to give fans what they're asking for and maybe one of those things has been to build a vault.

Personally, I would prefer it to be reconstructing an old vault given that the workshop is exhausting sometimes. And after everything that's happened I don't see my character starting a settlement in a vault to experiment on people. Hell to the no. But from Bethesda's POV they just want to make more money, or have better games to offer, or whatever their business plan is. They can't please everybody. It's entirely possible that they've taken the franchise in a direction a lot of old time fans don't care for.

And let me be clear that I'm not aiming to censor people's opinions or say that folks can't talk negative. You're allowed to say whatever you want within the boundaries of respect for other users. We can all agree on that. However, some conversations are more fruitful if folks make statements from educated or experienced points of view. Not all of us are going to agree on things and that's the way of the world.

[legoless]

I agree that their marketing is probably affected by player feedback, but that feedback is likely coming from the lowest common denominator to put it mildly. Especially this Minecraft [&@%!].

[The SheoDovah]

I agree. Bethesda is now influenced by marketing and sadly, it has kinda affected their products. I don't mind Fallout 4 having a lot of crafting features. I like having the option and most have a valid reason. E.g. Settlement building is viable and a staple of Fallout. Settlements are founded and destroyed all the time. Weapon customisation is well, awesome. etc... But Vault are stupid in terms of lore. In terms of gameplay, excellent.

Bethesda is either triple the size it was when they first got their hands on Fallout and brought it back from the brink of death or at least, double the size and they kinda have lost their way. That said, that's just Fallout and well, they kinda are a bit crap with Fallout in terms of plot. TES? They really shine. Hopefully,TES VI will have a lot of crafting and still be TES. Fallout 4 is kinda overshadowed by it's crafting and the fanbase is kinda one of those fanbases that will tear itself apart. Half hate the new fallouts. The other half hate the old ones. Some hate those that dare to like the new ones etc...

[dremorababe]

and the fanbase is kinda one of those fanbases that will tear itself apart. Half hate the new fallouts. The other half hate the old ones. Some hate those that dare to like the new ones

Pretty much the ES fanbase as well.
"Oblivion sucks cause teh characturrz are ugly." "Skyrim is teh bestest cuz dual wielding and dragunzz yis" "Hurrrr morrowind is the best ugh dumb 12 year old Skybabies."
I love all of them and I appreciate the different aspects they all offer so I really don't understand the hate. As for Fallout, I haven't played the rest (I have NV but it doesn't work. Pink screen glitch) so I can't say much. Personally I really like 4. But they did go overboard with the freedom. It actually messed up my brother's game completely. He did quests for every faction until a certain point and now he may be locked out.

[Dohva.]

I agree that their marketing is probably affected by player feedback, but that feedback is likely coming from the lowest common denominator to put it mildly. Especially this Minecraft [&@%!].

I've never played Minecraft although our kid is obsessed with it. But yeah, I wonder what sort of feedback they're getting because the dlcs for FO4 are way different than those of FO3 & Vegas. Instead of battling aliens in a spaceship we're building vaults. Frankly, I'm not picky and I'll play it either way but I can totally understand your disappointment with the franchise moving in a direction none of us ever expected it to.

On a sidenote, I discovered that the settlers who work with the crops wake up about an hour (game time) earlier than the other settlers. Egret Tour Marina: the bartender, provisioners, and guards were still asleep when the farmers went out to work first thing in the morning. It's a little thing/nice touch.

[dremorababe]

Sorry to interrupt you guys but I really need help.

Hidden:

Alright so my brother recently started FO4 and he joined up multiple factions till a certain point (Blind Betrayal for BoS, some dead-drops for the RR, etc) and ultimately decided to join the Minutemen.

Spoiler:

he also got kicked out of the Institute and did tons of settlement quests but Defend The Castle just never happens

Preston keeps giving unlimited settlement quests and the main quest just won't progress. I've never played with the Minutemen (BoS4lyf) so I have no idea what to do

[Dohva.]

Sorry to interrupt you guys but I really need help.

Hidden:

Alright so my brother recently started FO4 and he joined up multiple factions till a certain point (Blind Betrayal for BoS, some dead-drops for the RR, etc) and ultimately decided to join the Minutemen.

Spoiler:

he also got kicked out of the Institute and did tons of settlement quests but Defend The Castle just never happens

Preston keeps giving unlimited settlement quests and the main quest just won't progress. I've never played with the Minutemen (BoS4lyf) so I have no idea what to do

Spoiler:

Who did he build the teleporter with? If it wasn't with the Minutemen then I don't think that he can side with them for the final quest (defend the castle will still happen in that case, just AFTER you're done with the MQ). Whichever faction you build the teleporter with is the one you finish the MQ with.

If you DID build it with the Minutemen, then there may be another quest you need to finish before triggering Defend The Castle. What other quests have you got open with the RR and BOS?

[dremorababe]

Spoiler:

If you DID build it with the Minutemen, then there may be another quest you need to finish before triggering Defend The Castle. What other quests have you got open with the RR and BOS?

Spoiler:

He built it with Sturges, yes. As for the BoS and RR, he hasn't stepped into the Prydwen since sparing Danse and Dez just keeps begging him to join the RR so not sure if he even has an RR quest rn but he can't join them since he got kicked out of the Institute. Ah well. Guess he just has to get back to building settlements. Tg I didn't have to go through that. Thanks a ton btw

[Dohva.]

Another cool discovery about this game and forgive me if someone already knew this lol...BUT...I discovered that if you pickpocket ammo from a raider, they can't shoot their gun at you.

Chloe snuck up to a couple of metal head raiders and pickpocketted their ammo. Of course they turned around to fight her but could only punch. I think she now has a new tactic. Mw hahaha!

[legoless]

So Nuka-World is gonna be the last DLC. Pretty lame collection compared to the previous two Fallouts. I really don't think the season pass price hike was justifiable.