Debating on who to align with as a Bosmer PC

[Lavellan]

Hey everyone!
So, I rolled a bosmer character a bit ago - her name is Allena. Now, for Allena, I'm not really sure who I want her to ally with: Stormcloaks or Imperials. Now, I don't want this to be a simple "Oh, she is an elf, Imperials" or which faction is better/worse than the other. I'm just looking on some opinions from a roleplay perspective. I know ultimately it will be me making the decisions, but I figured I'd see what everyone would see her picking for a side.

Long story short, Allena comes from bosmer nobility in Valenwood; her family opposed and resisted the Thalmor, however, and they paid with it with their lives. Allena was very young at the time, she was able to escape - but, despite her survival, the Thalmor were persistent on killing of any remaining member of her noble household to both send a message and root out any opposition, regardless if those particular members agreed with the heads of their house. Allena grew up being an opportunist; she did what she had to, and often found herself either living a hermit's lifestyle deep within the woods of Cyrodiil, masquerading as multiple personalities she developed, or stalking throughout the darkness like a predator. It wasn't always things she was proud to do; a noble daughter having to go through trash to find food in desperate times, worried about where she would get her next meal.

Eventually, however, she was fought out by an Thalmor assassin, who pushed her into the Skyrim-Cyrodiil border, where she would eventually be caught by Imperial guards and slated off to the Headsman's Axe without a second thought or accused crime.

Now, this is where I'm at an interesting spot with Allena. She's not inherently bad or good; she's very much in it for herself, though often with (relatively) good intentions. After escaping with Ralof, she pretty much set deep into the wilds with her bow and fell back on old habits - she hunted, gathered plants and other ingredients, rummaged what food she could find, and studied the land she found herself in.
She's an elf, and as such, might not always be looked upon the best by nationalistic, Stormcloak Nords - but she can definitely understand the desire for freedom, and between the Thalmor presence in Valenwood and the Empire, along with the Empire setting her onto the chopping block without a second thought, she's not exactly on good terms with the Empire. She also hates the Thalmor, and wishes to see their power crumble - seeing their presence in Skyrim definitely would leave a bad taste in her mouth.

Allena is currently in the Companions and she'll probably eventually destroy the Dark Brotherhood and join the Dawnguard. She was recently attacked by a Dark Brotherhood assassin (woo random events lol) and considering she doesn't know who preformed the ritual, the Dark brotherhood might have some - unwitting or not - ties to the Thalmor. Eventually she might join the Mages Guild, though she's very much a sneaky archer through and through (though it's unlikely she'll join the Thieves Guild).

I'm sort of leaning towards the Stormcloaks because while they can be racist against elves, if she could earn herself a name and title (which eventually she could become Thane of multiple areas, along with being the Dragonborn once she's awoken as such), which ..might allow elves in those areas better opportunities in time? She also has a sort of whole "enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of thing with the Stormcloak faction overall, too.
And I believe the Empire lost Valenwood, so it could be kind of a double-wammy: The Empire lost Valenwood to the Thalmor and bent it's knee to them, so being in an Empire-controlled area might not offer her the protection that she desires - whereas an independent Skyrim would be considerably more proactive/violent against the Thalmor (for better or for worse). I'm not really sure if I'm missing/overlooking some Bosmer 4th era lore, though. I'm also kind of curious to see how an elf would be treated as well I guess, since generally I go Empire anyways... Too bad Bethesda really didn't have time to dedicate to the Civil War questline.

Anyways I'd really like to hear an open discussion on this - ideally for Allena and her character specifically, though I'd be interested to hear one about Wood Elves and the Civil War specifically... Since honest, from what I've gathered, it kind of sounds like they wouldn't give a damn for either faction.

[Leckan]

I believe that the Bosmer willingly joined the new Aldmeri Dominion.

While I understand the Stormcloaks' cause, the Thalmor are Nazis, I believe they are being too impatient and stubborn. Skyrim wouldn't just be fighting the Thalmor, they are also going to be fighting the Khajiit and the Bosmer. Unless they can get assistance from perhaps Hammerfell, they are outnumbered. The civil war isn't helping either, it is wasting resources and the lives of many capable men and women who could be fighting the Aldmeri Dominion.

Even though the Empire was in a weakened state following the aftermath of the Oblivion crisis, the Empire was sadly bluffed into surrender. However, it is a sleeping dragon regaining it's strength and it will fight back against the Dominion once again, but the Stormcloaks need to keep their sword arm strong for that day to come instead of weakening Skyrim and the Empire by fighting each other.

That's my take on it.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

I believe that the Bosmer willingly joined the new Aldmeri Dominion.

That is far from uncontested or universally accepted. Malborn's family was said to have been murdered in some kind of ethnic purge by the Thalmor, at least according to Delphine. While she's about my least favorite NPC in the game, I believe she's telling the truth about this one.

[Tingz0r]

Parts of her origin story remind me of princess Leia. And since Thalmor = Sith, Empire = Galactic Empire, and Stormcloaks = Rebels, it just makes sense for her to join the Stormcloaks.

...that's my comedic take on it.

... Delphine. While she's about my least favorite NPC in the game ...

She's pretty high on my list, too, along with Astrid. Definitely get revenge on her.

[Leckan]

I believe that the Bosmer willingly joined the new Aldmeri Dominion.

That is far from uncontested or universally accepted. Malborn's family was said to have been murdered in some kind of ethnic purge by the Thalmor, at least according to Delphine. While she's about my least favorite NPC in the game, I believe she's telling the truth about this one.

Well I didn't say it was a fact.

Anyway, it was an enthic purge, not war. The Thalmor also did a political purge on the Altmer. I recall hearing about "The Night of Green Fire" from an Altmer legionairre that survived.

[Imbalance]

Does your character's last name happen to be Benoch?

[SarthesArai]

Well, the bosmer, as a nation, joined the dominion willingly - but that doesn't have to hold true for each and every bosmer in valenwood, not even noble families. And the 4th era thalmor are nomore mercyfull to dissidents in their own ranks than they are to their war enemies.
I think you character should join neiter sides. She dislikes the empire for collaborating with the thalmor and trying to execute her, but hasn't enough love for skyrim to give her life for its freedom or a king that disrespects elves. Skyrim will just be another place she stays a while before moving on...

At least, that's how I would continue the story

[noobishlord]

I had a bosmeri archer character a long time ago that loved the idea of the Aldmeri Dominion ("Let mer take care of mer things, and men take care of men things, it just makes sense!") but absolutely despises the Thalmor, thinking they're going about this all the wrong way. He never sided with anyone in the civil war, since it was a man thing, not a mer thing.

He did follow Ralof out of Helgen though. Something about being called "friend" instead of "prisoner."

[legoless]

The Legion is the only choice. Stormcloaks are racist Dominion puppets, and you'd be aiding Allena's oppressors much more by siding with them than with the Thalmor-friendly Empire. If she's really only out for herself, then an Imperial victory will make her a high-ranking war hero with significant immunity from Thalmor persecution. Compare that to being a veteran in an "independent" Skyrim with no allies, responsible for creating an increasingly Thalmor-dominated world.

[MetaCthulhu]

Given that she comes from nobility, it makes more sense for her to join the Imperials because it gives her a much greater chance to capitalize on her war success. Odds are, the Stormcloaks aren't going to be thrilled with an elf in any position of power no matter how instrumental she was in their victory (A textbook example of "War makes for strange bedfellows."). The Imperials are much more likely to be favourable towards a rather unknown war hero, especially if their is a power vacuum (which may or may not be the case )

[Lavellan]

I believe that the Bosmer willingly joined the new Aldmeri Dominion.

I believe they willing joined the first Aldmeri Dominion (the one in ESO), but the second Aldmeri Dominion, it sounds like they were more or less taken over and it's implied that the Thalmor routinely preform genocide on the Bosmeri people to prevent dissidents. Some Bosmer probably support them, but from what it sounds like, a lot of Bosmer are far from happy with Thalmor rule.

Does your character's last name happen to be Benoch?

Lol no, she just shares the same time. I wanted a really simple name that's lore-friendly for her,

The Legion is the only choice. Stormcloaks are racist Dominion puppets, and you'd be aiding Allena's oppressors much more by siding with them than with the Thalmor-friendly Empire. If she's really only out for herself, then an Imperial victory will make her a high-ranking war hero with significant immunity from Thalmor persecution. Compare that to being a veteran in an "independent" Skyrim with no allies, responsible for creating an increasingly Thalmor-dominated world.

See I'm not too sure how much protection is given to those in the Legion. As for independence, while personally I agree that the Empire would probably have a more stable environment (I usually go Empire), Hammerfell is doing pretty well and drove the Thalmor out themselves. From the looks of Elenwen's journals, Empire or Stormcloak rule is not helpful for the Dominion, while a drawn out civil-war between the two fractions is. When we side either side of the civil war, we never see any meaningful impact either way, so it's hard to say how worse off a Stormcloak-ran Skyrim is compared to an Empire-ran one in terms of security and prosperity (Jarl friendliness to other races and magic is all we ever really see).

Given that she comes from nobility, it makes more sense for her to join the Imperials because it gives her a much greater chance to capitalize on her war success. Odds are, the Stormcloaks aren't going to be thrilled with an elf in any position of power no matter how instrumental she was in their victory (A textbook example of "War makes for strange bedfellows."). The Imperials are much more likely to be favourable towards a rather unknown war hero, especially if their is a power vacuum (which may or may not be the case )

Allena's nobility (probably) doesn't mean much. Her best bet is probably to make a name for herself in Skyrim and create her own property, as her family was killed and they lost everything - moreover Allena wasn't raised as nobility (her family was axed off when she was very young, probably like 4 or 5) so if any older heirs of her family's name were still alive, they would probably hold a great deal of precedence over her for power, titles, land, etc. if it was to be redistributed. Even if she was the only heir, she wouldn't necessarily have any Bosmeri backing politically, she would only have an Empire who have long considered Valenwood to be unhospitable backing her up so she would only probably end up being a noble with a weak claim. A weak claim that might not be able to be challenged, but a claim that would be fairly pitiful for a noble.

...Least that's what I assume, given we know very little about Bosmeri nobility. If the next game takes place in Valenwood, I'm sure we would find out a lot more, since I don't think ESO really touches up on that stuff too much, though I haven't played ESO yet.

[Br3admax]

This is actually the third reichAldmeri Dominion.

I'm afraid I'm with legoless on this one. There is nothing your character could ever do that will make Nords more accepting of any type of elf. That ship sailed before the Dawn and promptly sank. Just as no Thalmor is jumping at the prospect of loyal human servants showing a chance for humanity, this probably won't do anything here. If you want tolerance and acceptance, you want the Empire. Hammerfell is not doing well. At all. It's a hell hole of blood and instability, that not only needed the Empire to drive out the Thalmor, albeit minimal and behind the scenes, but also would not have been able to do even that "single-handed victory" without the Great War happening just prior. The Stormcloaks are definitely Thalmor assets, even if hostile, and therefore puppets.

[Dohva.]

This is actually the third reichAldmeri Dominion.

I'm afraid I'm with legoless on this one. There is nothing your character could ever do that will make Nords more accepting of any type of elf. That ship sailed before the Dawn and promptly sank. Just as no Thalmor is jumping at the prospect of loyal human servants showing a chance for humanity, this probably won't do anything here. If you want tolerance and acceptance, you want the Empire. Hammerfell is not doing well. At all. It's a hell hole of blood and instability, that not only needed the Empire to drive out the Thalmor, albeit minimal and behind the scenes, but also would not have been able to do even that "single-handed victory" without the Great War happening just prior. The Stormcloaks are definitely Thalmor assets, even if hostile, and therefore puppets.

You know...I've never thought of the Stormcloaks that way but you're right. Another reason to not side with them. Is it possible that the Nords can hold off the elves without magic? With only steel and muscle? No. No freaking way.

[legoless]

See I'm not too sure how much protection is given to those in the Legion.

Well they managed to keep this dude alive for nigh on 150 years, and he doesn't even have the power of the thu'um.

...Least that's what I assume, given we know very little about Bosmeri nobility. If the next game takes place in Valenwood, I'm sure we would find out a lot more, since I don't think ESO really touches up on that stuff too much, though I haven't played ESO yet.

The zones of Grahtwood, Greenshade and Malabal Tor in ESO all go into detail on the 'nobility' of Valenwood. In short: Valenwood has a traditional political king in Elden Root who rules on the Dominion's behalf, while also having a cyclical reincarnated couple—the Silvenar and his Green Lady—who emerge from the peasantry and have a more spiritual role (think Dalai Lama). Further, southeastern Greenshade is ruled by an independent godlike entity called the Wilderking/queen. The traditional king had to fight off pretenders and it seems safe to say that the Valenwood throne fits the standard feudal tropes. For roleplay purposes, Bosmeri nobility should therefore be a very flexible background.

[Lavellan]

See I'm not too sure how much protection is given to those in the Legion.

Well they managed to keep this dude alive for nigh on 150 years, and he doesn't even have the power of the thu'um.

If he's an active member, I'd say it's more of a matter of how well he was able to keep himself alive in the thick of battle. Fasendil is an altmer, but that's about as far as it goes - I don't think there is anything specific on why the Thalmor would be particularly after him? It seems he was just born in Cyrodiil, and decided to join the Legion. At best they might think he is befouling his race for working with and under humans, and on the "wrong side" because of that, but that's all I'm really getting from that...?

Though if Fasendil is over 150 years old I have to wonder how old Runil is, since he has the old man voice and was a Thalmor Battlemage. Fasendil still sounds pretty lively.
Bah weird elven aging and unspecific lifespans, I guess. :v Another discussion for another time lol.

Though honestly overall I wish there was a way for the Dragonborn to have the Civil War questline completed without joining either side. Maybe something that was a 50/50 chance or was dependent on other variables (quests done overall in either side/how much crime was going on like if there is more or less active bandit camps, etc) or something. Honestly I probably wouldn't have Allena give a damn if it wasn't for the fact I can't buy Hjerim without the civil war questline being progressed.
I need to get that gaming pc sometime soon ozn

[legoless]

Fasendil is an altmer, but that's about as far as it goes - I don't think there is anything specific on why the Thalmor would be particularly after him? It seems he was just born in Cyrodiil, and decided to join the Legion. At best they might think he is befouling his race for working with and under humans, and on the "wrong side" because of that, but that's all I'm really getting from that...?

Well, he's a high-ranking Altmer fighting for the enemy and spreading knowledge of the Night of Green Fire. Seems like a prime target for assassination to me.

Honestly I probably wouldn't have Allena give a damn if it wasn't for the fact I can't buy Hjerim without the civil war questline being progressed.

Hjerim really isn't worth the hassle. I went to all sorts of trouble trying to obtain it at release when that quest was horribly bugged. Ended up breaking the game multiple times with console commands, all for a stodgy old house I never visited again.

[noobishlord]

A bosmer character, especially one who grew up in Valenwood, would probably be more interested in the house in Markarth anyway. A house not made of wood? Amazing!

[Leckan]

This is actually the third reichAldmeri Dominion.

I'm afraid I'm with legoless on this one. There is nothing your character could ever do that will make Nords more accepting of any type of elf. That ship sailed before the Dawn and promptly sank. Just as no Thalmor is jumping at the prospect of loyal human servants showing a chance for humanity, this probably won't do anything here. If you want tolerance and acceptance, you want the Empire. Hammerfell is not doing well. At all. It's a hell hole of blood and instability, that not only needed the Empire to drive out the Thalmor, albeit minimal and behind the scenes, but also would not have been able to do even that "single-handed victory" without the Great War happening just prior. The Stormcloaks are definitely Thalmor assets, even if hostile, and therefore puppets.

You know...I've never thought of the Stormcloaks that way but you're right. Another reason to not side with them. Is it possible that the Nords can hold off the elves without magic? With only steel and muscle? No. No freaking way.

The short answer is "Yes."

[Dark Spark]

Though if Fasendil is over 150 years old I have to wonder how old Runil is, since he has the old man voice and was a Thalmor Battlemage. Fasendil still sounds pretty lively.
Bah weird elven aging and unspecific lifespans, I guess. :v Another discussion for another time.

Runil may have been an old elf even then. I can see that being a factor in his break with the Dominion: as an old, experienced elf who saw the changing face of elvendom firsthand, the war could have disillusioned him to the Thalmor whereas a younger elf who has known the Dominion for most of his short life would know of no alternative.

[Br3admax]

A bosmer character, especially one who grew up in Valenwood, would probably be more interested in the house in Markarth anyway. A house not made of wood? Amazing!

Bosmer houses are made out of imported wood. Riften is the most Valenwood like place in Skyrim.

The short answer is "Yes."

Skyrim will never defeat the Dominion, especially if the rest of Tamriel falls. Steel is never going to defeat battlemage regiments alone.

[Dark Spark]

Like a Nord who makes port in Anvil 'cuz he's tired of freezing his butt off in Skyrim, a Bosmer may find a city of stone appealing by the grace it's something they've never seen before.

[Leckan]

A bosmer character, especially one who grew up in Valenwood, would probably be more interested in the house in Markarth anyway. A house not made of wood? Amazing!

Bosmer houses are made out of imported wood. Riften is the most Valenwood like place in Skyrim.

The short answer is "Yes."

Skyrim will never defeat the Dominion, especially if the rest of Tamriel falls. Steel is never going to defeat battlemage regiments alone.

Ysgrammor and his Five-Hundred Companions drove the entire Falmer race into hiding for thousands of years.

The Nords were also defeating the Dwemer and the Chimer and expanding their territory, until the two joined forces and drove the Nords back.

Magic is great, but don't overestimate it. However, I do admit the Nords won't win because they are grossly outnumbered.

[Br3admax]

Ysgramor had Tongues and mages.

They had Tongues and mages.

They aren't really outnumbered. Nords breed much faster than elves.

Like a Nord who makes port in Anvil 'cuz he's tired of freezing his butt off in Skyrim, a Bosmer may find a city of stone appealing by the grace it's something they've never seen before.

Maybe, but Valenwood isn't miserable. A great deal of Nords hate the cold, don't hear many Bosmer hating the woods.

[legoless]

Br3admax is right, the Nords' distrust of magic is a recent occurrence. The god Tsun says it best: "The Nords may have forgotten their forefathers' respect for the Clever Craft, but your comrades throng this hall. Here in Shor's house we honor it still."

[Dohva.]

In a way it's almost hypocritical of the Nords to shun magic as much as they do. I recall going through the final mission of the Companions when my character used a spell to light a freaking room and Farkas got on her case about it. Okay...but you didn't complain when she healed you?! It's strange.

Without magic, there's no way in all of Tamriel that the Nords could push back the Dominion. Their magic users wouldn't touch the elves, if they even took magic users with them as it was. Sure, the Nords shouldn't be underestimated given that they are fierce warriors. But all it would take for the Dominion to gain an edge would be some electroshocks. If the Dovahkiin sided with the Nords then that might be a different tale. He could summon dragons to battle the elves; that's the only way I could see it going but hey, you never know!