The TES Roleplayer's Thread

Lord Timster · Post by **Lord Timster** » Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:57 pm

^ Aha. Completely forgot about the background posts.

Okay, cool. It means more to me as a background story now.

You know I still have the feeling that there is a more... satisfying (?) 'genesis' moment for this character yet to be discovered though.
Will look forward to seeing how this progresses.

CBR JGWRR · Post by **CBR JGWRR** » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:03 pm

Of course there will be.

I have an idea for it too.

ETA: I've got 6 stories planned between the one posted and the events of Skyrim. One of them is written up, the already mentioned torture scene - which I'm not sure if I should post, it got out of hand a bit -the others are in varying states.

But, in the meantime another childhood inset:

Hidden:

The SheoDovah · Post by **The SheoDovah** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:32 pm

I've kinda decided to ditch Oblivion. It's the levelling system and gameplay that kinda puts me off. Sadly, it means no Oblivion stories from me unless it's in the arts forum. However, i will do a Skyrim character!

I know i said i would do a altmer but i am leaning towards a dual wielding Nord rogue character that is laid back and honourable. Barring sneaking but i'll be aiming for speed over damage. Or sneaking. There's a show in the UK called the Last Kingdom and it is fantastic! It is reminding me of the Nords and well,i think i would enjoy a good character for my well overdue return to Dragonborn status. Won't happen til 2016 due to Red Dead Redemption but with luck, i will make a glorious return to stories!

CBR JGWRR · Post by **CBR JGWRR** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:19 pm

Oblivion's levelling would be great, if it worked the way the game explains it...

Erriene's second story.

A False Anuad

Hidden:

Thoughts? I'm not so sure on it, it feels forced somehow but I can't point out what is wrong...

The SheoDovah · Post by **The SheoDovah** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:09 pm

It's an interesting insight into the Altmer who would become the ironic hero that the Nords worship. I like how you showed the Thalmor to be [&@%!] coated shells with [&@%!] coated cores by silencing the child instead of just brushing off the lies accusation. Oh, how they will crap themselves when they find out that the girl who once accused them of being liars is now the biggest threat to them. At least, that is how i view it.

So, i've returned to Skyrim and am a Nord. His name? Svedir. Originally, going to do a speed over damage character but after getting my arse handed to me several times by the first bandit chief i encountered in order to retrieve Armen's sword, i decided on a dual wielding tank. He is honourable and modest. He lost his parents, his siblings to the Thalmor after they found out they had a Talos shrine in their basement in their Anvil Mansion, which was gifted to them by the COC to a loyal companion and is descended from that companion. Accepts he is the Dovahkiin and whilst he is stealthy, the Companions will teach him to use Valor. He shaved his head to change his looks and grew a rather stylish beard. He hates the Thalmor and views the Empire as a necessary thing. Even if Titus Mede II stabbed the redguards in the back. Former Blacksmith, now? Dovahkiin, Companion. Going for a ratio of 1:1 of Health and Staminia. Every other level gets one in each. Magic, being ignored.

If i smite my laziness, i will aim to get a small backstory(well, i say small, most likely grow out of my hands and force to release it in parts.).

CBR JGWRR · Post by **CBR JGWRR** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:32 am

Yeah; that would really confuse her, that some people might do that.

And the Thalmor bit just gets worse...

This is for your own good! - ETA: it is a torture scene, with psychologically unhinged male interrogator, and far weaker female victim. Make of that what you will...

Hidden:

How do you do a speed over damage character anyway? Or is this just something I can't do for co-ordination issues?

I mean, it gets really frustrating when you just want the character to go up say, the ladder in Breezehome, and you keep missing it because you can't use a controller properly... - On that note, Erriene is working not as well as I hoped, I'm finding it difficult to do her exploration of faith properly with time and motivation issues...

The SheoDovah · Post by **The SheoDovah** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:55 pm

I had hoped to attack quicker at the cost of damage but it doesn't work. I've pretty much had to turn Svedir into a dual wielding tank. Just leveling health and stamina at the same pace thus should avoid being unable to take hits. Using a sword and axe combo.

I have written a backstory for him but it kinda sucks and i'm debating whether to delete it and refer to it in other stories or just shove it out. I intend to pretty much start Svedir's journey from Cyrodiil then follow the main quest in terms of stories.

EDIT: I've also put some RP restrictions on myself. No mass looting. Just taking small bits or one large item is worth several bits. one meal a day(due to how quick the game processes the days), walking when possible and avoid doing too much in one day. May use the Companions as after Alduin affair and then slowly unwind. Just going to do the main quest and side quests first(should last many in game months), Dawnguard then Dragonborn. Will aim for a house everywhere for safe shelter and as resupply hub for Svedir and when he joins the companions, a place to rest for them.

Lord Timster · Post by **Lord Timster** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:56 pm

CBR JGWRR wrote:it feels forced somehow but I can't point out what is wrong...

Just because there might be room for improvement doesn't always mean that something must be 'wrong' though.

A couple of readability points:

Hidden:

The quick childhood snippet I could see working really well as a flashback. While investigating a Dwemer ruin Erriene is jumped by a pack of Falmer. Falling into a freezing-cold stream and battered by rocks she blacks out. Cue the flashback - then she awakens, half-dead and armour ripped to pieces, on the banks of a mountainside river.

CBR JGWRR wrote:On that note, Erriene is working not as well as I hoped, I'm finding it difficult to do her exploration of faith properly with time and motivation issues...

Maybe taking a different approach might help. We've heard a lot about how she can't do this, can't do that, gets brutally misunderstood - but not so much about what she can do.

My current character that I'm trying to do some fanfic for is a Khajiit who was born without nightvision. The idea is that he has a kind of 'mystical' perception as a replacement. This is basically a kind of 'thought experiment' for me as I try to imagine different ways of seeing different levels of meaning in events and people.

Maybe a similar sort of thought experiment might be interesting here also.

So sure, the normal Spellworking and Dual Enchanting as portrayed in the game wouldn't suit Erriene. But consider that all these spells/books were written by someone with 'standard mental processes' for other people also with 'standard mental processes', so the fact that Erriene can't copy these same sources doesn't necessarily mean anything. It's entirely possible that there might be other ways and styles of magic, either forgotten or entirely new, that she could discover/explore.

And not only is Tamriel itself a highly magical place, where Will and Magicka can alter reality, but Oblivion is essentially a soup of raw potentiality waiting to be molded*. What effect would Erriene have on that?

(*Disclaimer: that is just my take on it, not a challenge for the Lore experts...)

CBR JGWRR · Post by **CBR JGWRR** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:14 am

CBR JGWRR wrote: "Ok." She took up her stance, reinvigorated. Daddy turned too, and then she did something he didn't expect; she cast a water spell, which caught him off guard, and then attacked with her sword.

Already ahead of you.

I'm just writing them in at the sidelines, because that is how it is for me - the difficulties are constantly present, but working unnoticed in the background are the good bits, and if you aren't looking they'll be overlooked, but they are there all the same. In her case, she has an affinity for water magic, which isn't just in spells but will be in shouts too; I have one in mind already - Gol-Vah-Okaaz/Earth-Spring-Sea, which causes a torrent of water to rush from the ground, in a similar mode of action to fire breath or frost breath shouts.

I don't have the ability to modify Skyrim to actually do it, so in game she'll be using a normal shout in it's place. Sadly...

That's one example of them.

---

On the Anu, Nir and Padomay - it is actually phrased that way intentionally. From her perspective, she had explored this as far as she could - one of the things most autistic people do is have special interests, and this is one for her - and everything came back that this was right, so she took it to heart.

The idea that Anu, Nir and Padomay could be anything other than literal people is not something her mind can conceive of - she reads the way they are described and her brain doesn't have the ability to have a concept they are not real as such, but are instead philosophical explanations. Heck, I can only process non-literalisms like that because people tell me that is how it works; she hasn't got that far yet. She will do, in time.

This means that for her, everybody has convinced her of it. What they told her has reinforced what she thinks and because her brain hasn't yet realised that people know different things - heck, I still haven't got that far really, I only know it at a head knowledge level - to her.

So, for her, what her thinking is the truth statements being made do not match what she knows is true, even though everyone around her understands a different thing that would lead to the use of "the" there - the implication would be that her concept of them is incomplete, when from her perspective it is them who are doing something wrong.

I probably should make that more clear though, I'll take the point it isn't the most clear thing.

---

Yeah, good spot; I think I just didn't want to put a two word sentence on it's own, I'll edit it.

Finn Wolfshorn · Post by **Finn Wolfshorn** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:02 pm

CBR, I keep wondering where a mere teenager (or the Altmeri equivalent of a teenager; she's just entering puberty, right?) finds the mental strength to withstand torture by a more-twisted-than-usual Thalmor interrogator without breaking. After your last post, I understand that she was mentally incapable of grasping and internalizing the ideology they were trying to force her to accept, but even so, why didn't she even pay lip service just to save herself? According to the accounts of torture I've seen (e.g. protocols of witch processes) most people will eventually say everything the interrogator wants to hear just to make them stop.

Ok, Erriene isn't most people, she's Dovahkiin and I suppose we could say her dragon soul refused to submit. But even so, extended torture including rape isn't something she'll emerge from without severe trauma and potentially permanent damage to her personality. I gather from the snip about her father teaching her to wear heavy armour that she has a loving family who will care for her and help her recover, but will she be able to talk about her experience and let them help? In any case, I think she's likely to have issues beyond those you've envisioned up to now. Think Serana. And I wouldn't want to be Rulindil when she does Diplomatic Immunity.

(Incidentally, I recently wrote a monologue from the POV of a guy who was tortured by a Thalmor interrogator during the Great War and became a torturer himself because the only way he could cope with the pain and humiliation he had experienced was passing them on to others. An extreme and horrible way of coping, but sadly not unheard of.)
____________________________

In other news, I've been having so much fun with the Imperial nightblade I mentioned a page ago that I've given some thought to his backstory after all:

Crataegus Levigata was born in Anvil, Cyrodiil, in 4E 167. Both his parents came from families who had been providing Imperial legionaries and civil servants for generations. His father, Marcellus Levigata, was a captain in the Blades. When little Crataegus was three years old, Marcellus was assigned to an espionage mission in Valenwood; his head was among those the Thalmor sent to Titus Mede in a basket a year later. Crataegus never forgave the Thalmor for the death of his father, nor Titus Mede II for not avenging it.

His uncle Antonius Closcus, then a tribune in the Legion, cared like a father for young Crataegus, and in order to please him Crataegus joined the Legion when he came of age, although he had hitherto been more interested in literature and philosophy. Nevertheless he did well as a soldier and was promoted to the rank of legate in his thirtieth year. His military career found a sudden end, however, when he refused to drink the Emperor's health at an officers' banquet, calling Titus Mede a sellout and traitor, and killed a comrade who had challenged him to duel about the matter. He was drummed out of the Legion for conduct unbecoming, and only the combined influence of his uncle Antonius, his former commander, General Tullius (yep, the same) and a third party who chose to remain anonymous at the time spared him a trial for lèse majesté and homicide.

Civilian again, Crataegus enjoyed his newly-won freedom to pursue his more scholarly interests and even took some courses at the Arcane University to develop his hitherto dormant magical talent. It was about this time that he was first approached by the third party mentioned above: Amaund Motierre, then newly elected to the Elder Council. By and by, Motierre confided to him his vision of a reunified Empire as it had been in the days of the Septims, an Empire strong enough to rise in force against the Aldmeri Dominion (and, incidentally, headed by Motierre himself). The first step to this was to bring Skyrim, then on the brink of secession because of the Stormcloak rebellion, back into the fold; the second, to get rid of the weak Mede emperor whose abominable compromise with the Dominion had inspired said rebellion in the first place; and after that, negotiations with Hammerfell, Blackmarsh and what was left of Morrowind to form an alliance that could wage war on the Dominion and hope to win.

So early in 4E 201, Crataegus Levigata was sent to Skyrim on a two-fold mission:
1. to join the Stormcloak rebellion, find out as much about Ulfric's plans as he could and defect to the Legion with what knowledge he had been able to gather (i.e. after The Jagged Crown); to help General Tullius win the Civil War in whatever way he could and make sure Ulfric, the head of the rebellion, died in the war (if necessary by killing him himself);
2. to contact the Dark Brotherhood (join them, if necessary) and help negotiate a contract to assassinate Emperor Titus Mede II, who was widely regarded as the impersonation of everything that had gone wrong with the Empire since the end of the Septim dynasty and particularly since the Great War, and thus the greatest personal obstacle to a renunification of the Empire.

And that's what he's going to do. What happens on the way is another question.

CBR JGWRR · Post by **CBR JGWRR** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:36 am

Oh, that's coming; it will have a cost on her, a heavy cost. And she won't be able to talk about it either... For a start, how will she describe what happened to her? She doesn't know about rape or torture, all she knows is the Thalmor dragged her off, and hurt her so much her body stopped responding. The most she can do is be asked "could you point to where they hurt you?" and then point to where they stabbed her, and feel herself down there, she won't be able to vocalise it.

She knows she has been violated; and because it is by all the authority figure's she has ever known of, who can she turn to anyway? Everyone is a threat to her now, her whole world has been reshaped, because people she trusted to tell her the truth have lied to her and then when she denied the lie they took her and hurt her, trying to force her to comply.

Even her parents; she would have turned to them first in her questioning after all. And because they told her it was true, she now has to question - her mind isn't able to not question it - whether they'll hurt her too. And while they have taken wonderful care of her physically, emotionally and mentally are a different story; they treated her like she was a normal child, when she isn't. As a result, she knows that she is physically safe with them, but she doesn't feel safe to discuss this with them.

This is going to internalise itself deep down, and it'll come out, and it'll twist her, it will have permanent damage to her.

But, during the torturing process: Everything about her seeks to know truth. She can't agree to something she knows is a lie; this is not her room 101, where it would break her that much. For her, she is vast amounts of pain, but she still understands that it is being inflicted on her, for everything she knows to be true; to express it pictorially, because she's part of exploring myself, I hold everything in terms of certain/uncertain, and anything I can know to be certain becomes a rock on which the universe itself is built.

In order to break her, this can't do that - while it is extremely painful and degrading and sets her up for all kinds of damage, what you need to do to break her is psychologically torture her, not physically; force her to lose sense of what is real and she'll crumble, because her mind will not function with only uncertainties. Once they've got her into that state she'll be as pliable as warm wet clay.

However, doing this instead, enforces two certainties - 1. that she's real - right now she's going through so much pain her body is in sensory overload and is not able to cope, parts of her brain have shut down to try to deal with it, that is real and frightening to her - and 2. that she's under attack by an outside force of liars trying to break against everything she knows to be true.

In a way, she'd die before giving in, as her body would fail her before her spirit if they continue trying to torture her like this - for her, everything in her says "resist", so she resists; she isn't aware that resistance could take her life. As it happens, it doesn't; it means she gets used as a masturbation tool instead.

I know what I plan for her - I've already written up what happens when she gets to Anvil, and I do explore the issues she develops at that point; it is just I'm not sure how to fill in the decade between the two stories...

------

I like the sound of that character.

I do have a question about that favour for an honourable man though...

Finn Wolfshorn · Post by **Finn Wolfshorn** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:44 pm

I see you have it all thought out. Complex, interesting stuff. I think she has the potential to become an awesome character. Keep us posted, and good luck on your journey of self-exploration!

Thanks for the like! As a little adjustment to Crataegus's backstory, his uncle in the army may actually have been his auntie in the army - Tribune Antonia Closcus (or Closca). It could even have been his mother. To Oblivion with gender stereotypes.

About that special favour, well, he would of course be aware that in fulfilling it, he would leave the Empire leaderless, a situation which would serve nobody but the Dominion*. He doesn't want that, he wants the Empire restored as it was and as it should be. It really depends on how he fares in the Brotherhood. His initial approach to them will be pragmatic (unlike Marilyn, who was touched by Sithis as a child and had Mother talking in her head for most of her life). I can even imagine him taking Astrid's side against Cicero, but what happens When Silence Is Broken, does that change him and how? I don't know yet, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

CBR JGWRR · Post by **CBR JGWRR** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:59 pm

Not necessarily leaderless; I'd be extremely surprised if there is no heir. (Mortierre probably has plans for them anyway, of course)

What about a possible issue about whether Darkwater Crossing-Helgen changes things for him? It isn't the first time he's been in trouble with Tullius after all.

Yeah, I have definitely thought it through; I just need to ensure it reflects that. I've settled on her being 14 at the time of the torture, and 24 when she leaves for Anvil, having spent a large chunk of the previous 10 years in a healer's ward.

Ingame, she's doing well; she's done her first Daedric quest - Dagon's, resolved with Silus surviving - and so far she doesn't like them.

Another inset; I'm still trying to figure out how to work through this, so this one isn't a story piece as such, but it does contain her parent's names.

Spoiler:

Finn Wolfshorn · Post by **Finn Wolfshorn** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:55 pm

No story, but that neutral, objective report carried a load of emotional punch (the sentence about her presenting her butt when given instructions hit me right in the gut). I feel a bit silly for presuming to tell you what you were getting into with this character a few posts ago when it's obvious now that you know exactly what you're dealing with. To see this poor girl grow to be the heroine of Skyrim will be quite the journey.
__________________________________________

There may be an heir to the Empire, but one able and willing to forge an alliance that can win a war against the Dominion? That's what Motierre is for Crataegus (whether he's right is another matter).

As for Darkwater/Helgen, I'm using an alternate start mod, so that never happened to Crataegus. He started as a convict in Cidhna Mine (randomly chosen, I had no idea what to do with him at the time); how he got there is probably a convoluted story which I haven't worked out yet. He only passed through Helgen after the dragon attack was over and was happy to scavenge some gear from the dead Imperials and Stormcloaks.

CBR JGWRR · Post by **CBR JGWRR** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:39 am

Alternate start: live another life, I'm guessing? I'm sure you can think of something...

My only idea right now is that getting into Markarth isn't difficult; for a mission like his, there are options of exploring the enemy which can only be done from a civilian position, so perhaps he could have scouted the major cities looking for hints that he might not be able to get otherwise - maybe he uncovers the Stormcloak supporters within Markarth, and the Imperials get the wrong idea and think he genuinely supports the Stormcloaks rather than the truth that he is an agent working from the inside to take down the Stormcloaks.

The major question then is how would that link into his journey in Skyrim itself as played, but, if I was going from a fresh start with that background it would be how I'd resolve it. (at the end of the day, it would look better to Galmar if he has already been imprisoned for the cause, and it would give him a reference to check, further establishing his credibility as a genuine Imperial fighting against the Empire, which is part of earning the trust required to accomplish his primary objective.)

---------------

It is a short sentence, which says a lot more than just what it says...

I think I've overdone it; I don't know how to realistically write the recovery, because where do you go with this? Her only grips on anything are her being alive, and her faith, that is all she has - her motivations are based on trying to make her torture less painful, she doesn't even understand that what happens to her is wrong at this point.

All she knows is the only thing that makes sense to her is her gods; and she clings to them with all she has because the alternative is vomindoraan.*

And I can't take it back because I've written it now...

And I don't want to just timeskip ahead to being in Cyrodiil so that she can resume what she started in childhood, because that would miss her journey.

Her journey, that's it - not physical but spiritual, that's the key to her recovery, is her faith - ascending from flesh to rule the realm from spirit, to adjust Heimskr's line. She understands that she is a child of her gods, so seeking the parents she does not have** - that's it! That's how I get her to recover.

* She isn't babbling, they just don't know the language she's using. Well, she is babbling, but not all of it is...

* More accurately, that she does have but she is beyond their help right now.

ETA - I really don't mind you guys questioning it - it does help me, a lot. I'm still not sure I actually know well enough to write it correctly, but we'll see.

CBR JGWRR · Post by **CBR JGWRR** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:13 am

Since I just found this perk choice thing, I'll illustrate how I'm dealing with Erriene's neurological difficulties.

This: http://skyrimcalculator.com/424743 - is her perk build as she is taking into account her weaknesses, but this: http://skyrimcalculator.com/424744 is what I would do for a normal character of her playstyle. (not that she actually pickpockets; that's just for the carry weight boost, and taking frost perks is because the extra damage perks for the water spell mod are linked to frost)

She doesn't even take half the perks that she otherwise would.

There's also the fact normally I mod Skyrim Altmer to have Oblivion Altmer racial stats, but I won't for her to reflect her lacking in the neurological department. (which is where the Altmer bonuses come from.)

Ok, she is still vastly OP - the Dragonborn is supposed to be so - but she remains far weaker than she could be.

CBR JGWRR · Post by **CBR JGWRR** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:31 pm

So, I've just taken Erriene through Vaemina's Daedric quest

Such a shame I have to hold the story back until she's got that far in the writing, because it is the perfect opportunity to explore her severe trust issues; from start to finish it is filled with setting off her alarms for "this person is dangerous, do not trust"...

Finn Wolfshorn · Post by **Finn Wolfshorn** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:13 pm

I don't think you overdid it. That medical report seems to have been written within a year or so after the Thalmor incident, so she has nine more years to heal before her journey. A lot can happen in that time. What could be very interesting, I think, would be a story from her POV, maybe even an interior monologue, set in that period of recovery, that shows what goes on in her head behind that facade of apparent apathy and draconic babbling, how she tries to make sense of things, how she perceives her environment and other people.

I like your idea of her journey as recovery, but she'll have to be at least restored to everyday functionality in order to travel to another country. Will she be going to Anvil alone or with a companion? Maybe her healers would deem that she needs a change of air, a sojourn in a cultural environment she won't associate with her torment? Would one of them come with her to oversee her first steps overseas?
______________________________________________________

Skyrim Unbound, not Live Another Life. It also lets me completely disable the main quest, including shouts and words of power, if I decide my character won't be Dragonborn, as in Crataegus's case.

There's fodder for thought in your suggestions, I'll mull them over but got to dash now.

CBR JGWRR · Post by **CBR JGWRR** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:15 pm

No worries; as said, it is just how I'd go about it.

Skyrim Unbound seems interesting, and based on what I've just read on it's page on the nexus, the faction system it introduces could provide room for ideas? It would certainly tie into the idea I had...

-------

What I have in mind about arriving in Anvil is she's recovered, and she's now seeking truth; she's convinced it is not in her own people, so she turns to the beliefs of others to find hers, knowing who or what made her wants her to find them. The reason for that comes up in two stories time; I plan her being found having been thrown away by the Thalmor, then the one I wrote but haven't posted yet based on inspiration I got from the earlier realisation - her inner journey occurs during the recovery, her outer journey follows both.

But I don't think you understand what I mean; this will be long-winded, but:

"I ask you again to imagine for me. This time you are beneath the ground, a tiny acorn planted by some well-meaning elf-maiden of the woodlands for her pleasure. You wish to grow but fear what you may become, so you push off the water, the dirt, the sun, to stay in your hole. But it is in the very pushing that you become a tree, in spite of yourself. How did that happen?"*

That's what her recovery will be like - the her who realised that she wasn't strong enough to resist being raped so she bent over and let it happen, who turned into the her who presented to her rapist as soon as he spoke to her as she learnt that the sooner he started the sooner he'd finish, to the her who rationalised and accepted it as just the way she deserved to be treated, to the her who didn't have the mental faculties to think about it and just heard a noise and responded instinctively - as the torture broke down her mentally without being able to break her - that is what she's working against here.
With the healers, what she knows is she hears a voice she presents herself, and it over the six months until that report she's learnt that when she hears a voice now, they don't want to put things in and out of her; she's learnt it from countless times of offering and it not happening that they don't want that, so she doesn't do it anymore except when the perhaps the voice is linked to a touch, like if someone tries to say "Erriene, how are you?" and puts their hand on her shoulder or something, she still interprets that as requiring her to bend over.

From her perspective, she finds it strange - if a great relief - that they don't do it to her. That's what she's working through here, it is that her perception of people is so damaged she expects sexual abuse and is surprised when it doesn't happen. (I wish I could be making this response up; sadly I'm basing this response upon the real life experience of a Latino woman who was - thankfully she was rescued and freed - a victim of sex trafficking and [&@%!], who was sexually and verbally abused so badly that she felt very similar to this...

)

That is roughly where Erriene is, right now; and how to do you go from there to being whole? What can the acorn push against?

That was my problem, because I couldn't see a way to get her back to wholeness - but exploring her internally by her faith to heal her from the inside out is the answer. At least for Erriene - her acorn pushes against her faith, and grows to heal and restore more and more of her. And that necessarily leads to the first paragraph again.

* It would hit Erriene like a train when she reads those lines in the book I took that quote from...

Finn Wolfshorn · Post by **Finn Wolfshorn** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:49 pm

Maybe I don't understand completely, but I think I understand enough. I knew you hadn't made the presenting up - maybe vague memories of a story similar to that of the Latina you mention, maybe it just rang too true to be made up, I'm not sure which. And I know from a woman close to me that victims of sexual abuse in childhood need to relearn that what was done to them isn't right, isn't normal, isn't the way things are done, isn't what to expect from people.

I love your acorn parable - do you remember where you found that? I read it before but don't remember where. It reminds me of another parable: A frog falls into a tub of milk and is about to drown. Desparate, it struggles and flounders and treads ~~water~~milk, churning the milk until all of it has turned into firm butter, allowing the frog to climb out of the tub. I like your acorn better though because in this case, the very things the acorn pushes against are what nurtures it.

As for Skyrim Unbound, you made me realize that I'm still using an older version (from when the author was banned from the Nexus) and the new Nexus version has some nifty new features, like the faction stuff you mentioned. I also haven't updated Requiem in the last two years. If I wasn't already 20 levels into Crataegus I'd be tempted to restart him - maybe I will after all. Hm.

CBR JGWRR · Post by **CBR JGWRR** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:34 am

Sadly they are far too common today...

I meant more that you may not have understood just how bad it was with Erriene, but you get the point.

Septimus Signus, Ruminations on the Elder Scrolls. Which she picked up today in game, and it is sad the only response you can make is to say it is incomprehensible, because it makes perfect sense...

Something to consider, it does add options...

Finn Wolfshorn · Post by **Finn Wolfshorn** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:23 pm

A few days ago I restarted Marilyn, now her third iteration, and it feels like coming home. The characters I had inbetween - Hist-Tongue, Magritte, Crataegus - were fun, but that skinny black-haired Bosmer is where my heart is, as far as Skyrim is concerned (and doing the Dark Brotherhood with anybody else just feels plain wrong).

I've noticed I'm not alone in this. CBR had numerous versions of Jennifere, Mauin seven or so Vuloms; Dohva I think has mentioned restarting Felina and Sylmirie a few times; Dark Spark seems to be making another Cassie every couple of months. Anybody else? Why do we keep coming back to the same character(s) time and again? What makes this particular character, more than any other, our sweet spot in playing Skyrim?

With me and Marilyn, I think it's a number of things: the playstyle of a sneaky archer who can't afford to get hit appeals to me very much, as it forces me to think and plan and keeps me on my toes, and it goes hand in hand with playing a diminutive woman making her way in a world dominated by physical violence (and made even more brutal by Requiem) and kicking ass. (I suppose there's something autobiographic deep in there - I'm a guy, but I was a small and sickly child who never stood a chance in a schoolyard brawl. Late compensation?) There's also her personality - stranger in a strange land, longing to love and trust but afraid of rejection and betrayal, scaring off some who might befriend her with her scathing sarcasm, and all complicated by having the Night Mother talking to her in her head since she was thirteen. There's just so many ways I can take her. Also, she looks just mean and glorious with her swerving black facepaint.

What about you?

CBR JGWRR · Post by **CBR JGWRR** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:06 am

Jinba ittai.

I think there is a synergy between player and character, and part of why Erriene is an Altmer female is simply because I find that synergy with female altmer spellswords; the major difference in playstyle is Jennifere was omnivorous with a taste for venison without a care for where her food came from, while Erriene is a strict vegetarian because she believes all life is sacred, and that on the other side of that animal there is someone who has needs like her, to eat and drink and sleep and mate, and she can't face depersonalising the person she sees to the extent that she can eat them.

And it's only now I realise that having written that out she would be forced by her guiding rules to also extend that for any animal based products. Hmm. It's a good thing I've just restarted her...

Fundamentally, they play exactly the same; it's just that Jennifere used a far wider variety of spells and perks and killed a lot more stuff, but Erriene views combat as already a defeat and so therefore she views having to use spell and sword for battle as damage control, whereas Jennifere saw battle as ends justifying means - Erriene for example, will never fight a pack of wolves, she just casts a calm spell on them (when I can aim it properly, I'm deteriorating...) and carries on, whereas Jennifere pretty much always fought because she could use the pelts.

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While I'm on this line of thought, it was interesting that you brought up Rulindil earlier - one part of her would want to tie him to the rack and work it until no bone in his spine was connected to any other. Another would want to capture him take him to a place where no one can hear his screams and make him degenerate until he gets to the point of accepting his existence is purely for her pleasure, like she did for her captors.

The last would be moved purely to pity for him, and it would be that part of her that would win out - to kill him by torture makes her no better than them - that is not an option to her, because she knows that were the position reversed, Rulindil would have no problem racking her until she died, and so therefore she must have mercy because she knows with all her being (except the parts wanting vengeance) she cannot become like them. Equally, while she knows there would be pleasure that way (in the sense of vengeance taken by the way it was given to her; the idea it could be made enjoyable for her wouldn't necessarily occur to her, and in any case her mind can only comprehend that he'd enjoy it) she knows for the same reason she cannot go down that road.

The way that she would see him is as someone who is psychologically damaged by Thalmor indoctrination, to the extent that he doesn't fully comprehend what he does - a pale wreck of what an Altmer man could be, twisted and corrupted by the Thalmor. She'd weep for him long before she killed him; she views him as a fellow victim of the Thalmor, and her heart's response would be to try to smuggle him home and try to undo the damage the Thalmor did to him. And then probably marry him, because Erriene knows the very simplistic truth that she'd like to settle down someday, and she can see beyond the present evil to the potential good that he could recover to, just like she recovered from her present evil - and the two survivors of the Thalmor who go on to actively resist the Thalmor all their lives having both seen and been scarred by the Thalmor getting married to live in love all their days appeals to her.

Jennifere by contrast, kills him without question, in a fair battle. Erriene's final approach would seem to Jennifere to be beautifully noble, but also stupid, impractical and potentially dangerous; they'd agree on not racking him, for the same reason, they both believe killing him by torture makes them no better than them.

So, Jennifere goes into the Solar, sees Rulindil while still upstairs and engages the three hostile targets in front of her, before proceeding to mop up her objective. Erriene by contrast, hides and waits to gather intel on the conversation, sneaks past the guard, gets the information from upstairs, then down into the basement where she'll have the existential crisis described above as she listens to the interrogation.

Odd, isn't it? Two extremely different approaches done by characters who on a spec-sheet (after allowances for Erriene's neurodivergency) would look very similar...

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Sorry that got a little too deep; I'm more than a little concerned that Erriene/Rulindil might just be the direction I take her in.

I restarted Erriene's character again incidentally, last week, currently she's in Helgen slipping into some Imperial armour on the logic that it was better to be the prisoner of someone who didn't want her dead, than to start her life in a new country blacklisted as a rebel fighting for a Civil War she didn't even know about until she woke up bound in rags on a cart. Having tried and failed at other more practical escape attempts like opening the gate and climbing rocks...

Dohva. · Post by **Dohva.** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:27 am

Finn, interesting post.

Idk...guess I'm just in love with the idea of Sylmirie and Felina (Lieth only has two incarnations, unfortunately there was a glitch I couldn't live with the first time around). No one else feels right for the Brotherhood except Felina, and no one else is qualified to run the COW like Sylmirie. And because I'm always in a quest for perfection with these characters/games, I do a lot of run throughs with the same people. For example, currently playing Fallout 4, I'm on my 3rd run through with my one and only character. I had one character in New Vegas that I restarted twice. Guess it's just the way I play these types of games.

Finn Wolfshorn · Post by **Finn Wolfshorn** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:48 pm

Thanks for the replies, folks!

Interesting that you should use an analogy from riding, CBR. I used to believe that roleplaying means becoming the character in your head, but I've come around to accepting an image Dark Spark used in a post once as more accurate: we're not the characters, we're the good and evil angels riding on their shoulders, guiding them here or there for good or ill. I suppose we just sit better in some saddles than in others.

So Erriene is going to be a vegan? That could be interesting - IIRC you need leather and/or leather strips in crafting pretty much any armour. Will she forgo wearing armour and run around in plain clothes or mage robes?

I don't think there is such a thing as going too deep on this thread, is there? In any case what you wrote about Erriene and Rulindil is fascinating enough to make me wish it could be done without breaking Diplomatic Immunity. I suppose you could try to use a calming spell on him and make him a follower while he's under the influence... Anyway, how would she go about redeeming him? How convince him that the ideology he's been following all his life could be wrong?

Incidentally, it occurs to me that he has a very minor role in Marilyn's backstory - before being promoted to Third Emissary in Skyrim, he was stationed at the Thalmor Embassy in the Imperial City [headcanon] and functioned as the contact and supervisor her parents (spies for the Dominion in Bravil) reported to; they must have met once or twice when she was little, and she used to call him Uncle. Too bad they never met in Skyrim, as she's not Dragonborn and thus was never invited to Elenwen's party... I suppose I could make up a Thieves Guild or Brotherhood job that requires her to break into the Thalmor Embassy and console my way through - talking to Malborn would be a worldview-shattering eye-opener for her.

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