Lore General Discussion!

[all_freed]

those two and a pinch of love.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

And a secret final ingredient - Chemical X.

Seriously, though, most lore on it simply calls it "refined Moonsugar". It's kind of like the Heroin to Moonsugar's Opium. I know that's a horrible analogy, but it's pretty accurate and faithful to what's going on here.

[Leckan]

Quick question, what is the components in skooma? Aside from refined moonsugar. I cant recall where, but I heard mention of nightshade? Checked the wiki n saw little detail

Crack.

[Dark Spark]

I'd wager there's catnip in there as well.

[The SheoDovah]

Quick question, what is the components in skooma? Aside from refined moonsugar. I cant recall where, but I heard mention of nightshade? Checked the wiki n saw little detail

Originally, a single hair from the madgod's beard. Naturally, this proved to be too much and almost caused a crisis that would have made the Oblivion Crisis look like a disagreement. Thus the ol' Madgod use jesters tears as a replacement.


Joking aside, i think it would be a small dose of Nightshade to try to make it addictive as possible.


I kinda hope that the Empire ceases to be after Skyrim as it would be interesting seeing what Bethesda would do if they ended the Imperial Empire and if they decided that the Thalmor are not going to take over most of Tameriel. I do wonder how they would tackle Skyrim due to a bad case of a demigod and having said demigod pose a massive risk to them. I know Mora claimed The Dovahkiin but i feel that it's kinda crap due to there being well, too much leeway. Sure, Mora could randomly kidnap the Dovahkiin but i just feel that they should have made it certain. Look at the Champion of Cyrodil and Sheogorath. They more or less confirmed it at the end of Shivering Isles via implying you would grow into Sheogorath. And it solved the whole Hero of Oblivion issue. Dovahkiin? Not so much.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

They more or less confirmed it at the end of Shivering Isles via implying you would grow into Sheogorath.

That requires the tremendous leap of faith that is believing Sheogorath and Haskill, or trusting your own senses once you cross that threshold into the embodiment of Madness.

[MidbossVyers]

You know, upon playing other fantasy games, I realize that the ES series is one of the most racially tolerant ones. Dark elves and orcs are treated like any other elf (though, for orcs, it took 2 games and the reactivation of a giant time-bendy robot). Demons (Daedra) are allowed to roam the streets, so long as they are bound to a conjurer (see Dremora mailman in that Thieves Guild quest in Oblivion), and save for crazy vigilantes (hi, Vigil of Stendarr and the Dawnguard), vampires and werewolves are generally tolerated (except vampires in Morrowind).

Actually, that last one might be a game mechanic. For example, as a vampire, if you are caught feeding in Oblivion, you can get charged the standard fine for assault rather than a separate "crime of vampirism", as the Dawnguard would call it. Similarly, while transforming will provoke the guards, using your vampiric drain spell in battle will not, despite the fact that only vampires know the absorb health spell (not enchant) in Skyrim. And what? All that was needed for this racial equality was a warlord with dragon blood who could either fight purely by Shouting or aligning himself with a lich king who could fight by Shouting and a couple activations of a giant time-bendy robot.

[BetaB17]

I wouldnt say its all so tolerant as you say.. but noticeably more than other fantasy series. Keep in mind, the Empire are the ones to bring in a greater degree of tolerance <_< most cultures still hold on petty if not racial differences.. Look at the Dominiom, who very clearly hold a racial superiority view. And lets not even start on the many unjustices beastfolk still face

First off, orcs still hold a general dislike in most regions, but no where near what they previously faced. For one, many orcs have proven themselves to the point of gaining admirable respect. They are far from some primitives or goblins.. but bc some still hold grudges n a 'outsider' mentality, it doesnt help much with good relations amongst neighbors. Tis the fate of the pariah I guess, and is only fitting inn some degrees.

Likewise, the Dark Elves hardly face mistreatment as others had. Ya, maybe culturally they are approached differently(i.e bc of open daedric worship) but really nothing boils past the usual. If anything, they show a distrust for outsiders, only fitting when they themselves are as backstabbing amongst te Houses as any other noble(except of course its legal here). Plus, Morrowind is one of the few that still practices slavery legally.. and they dont settle with just goblins like the Altmer had. To them, beastfolk(who may I add still face racism) or humans are fair game >_> so much so that kidnapping free folk is morally 'okay'. This goes along with how they feel about necromancy, any 'lesser being' is okay to animate but not so much their own... hypocrisy I say

And speaking of undead, vampires tend to have problems. Like necromancers or daedric cults, the common folk tend to see trouble n normally they would be right. In Morrowind a Vampire is more than hated, partly given their disregard with ancestral tombs. Unlike their Empire counterparts, they lack the means to hide in plain sight, this may hint at how it less troublesome they are viewed. Still, if you are a known vampire.. folk will likely distrust you or wish you harm.. and in some cases.. radicals will do both even if the person in question has done good. Still, most folk dont go looking for vampires or other dark beings unless troube is already there

Last up is Daedra.. almost nobody tolerates them. An why should they? Look at the history of disasters they bring, or some of the evil they do even if under a conjurer's command. Cultures with a history of daedra worship tend to be more tolerant, even if to a select few, but tolerant no less. Most folk however do not, and with the Oblivion Crisis, even commom users of magic have faced some heat <_<

[MidbossVyers]

Yeah, that's why I'm disregarding radicals and vigilantes in this, as most are just self-righteous bandits, anyway. As for Daedra, walking around town with a familiar is perfectly legal, correct? Also, I'm not referring to Daedric Princes, just the lesser Daedra, as most cannot even manifest in Tamriel without some kind of "anchor" be it a conjurer, artifact, etc. By the way, this is the Thieves Guild quest that I was referring to: http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Misdirection

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Yes, walking around with familiars may raise some eyebrows among the rustics, but it's not technically illegal anywhere in Tamriel, and it would barely raise an eyebrow in the Imperial City or Daggerfall. In fact, the Mages Guild openly employs Dremora and other notorious types of Daedra as messengers.*

*Of course, 4th Era, there's not officially a Mages Guild any more, and I'm not sure how the Synod or the College of Whispers would differ on specifics like this. I get the impression the Synod in particular is more on the "daedra are bad" side than the Mages Guild was.

There's also the Vigilants of Stendarr. Not sure yet if they operate entirely under the auspices of Imperial Law or if they're more of a renegade militia. I can't see Imperial Law becoming so radically intolerant as to officially espouse the views of the Vigil, though.

[MidbossVyers]

Well, unlike the Dawnguard, I've never seen Vigilants assault their targets inside cities with plenty of civilians, but for all intents and purposes, Vigilants are vigilantes. The law appears to just tolerate them so long as they don't endanger civilians.

[legoless]

The Vigilants are the same breed of ignorance that you see on display in Winterhold village. Almost makes you wish for a Dominion takeover as a mage.

[BetaB17]

Sects like the dawnguard n Vigilants, and a select few individuals, tend to have a positive influence at times. For starters, many create a sense of security or reassurance to the common folk<_< These sects are great for countering a specific crisis, but when it comes down to prevention or routing out they are little more than thugs. Maybe its for the better they lack authority over the law(despite their own belief), n while some of the officials' trust may be misplaced to an extent, at least these sects operate in greater organization n have some manner of public appearance.. still.. doesnt excuse assassination of 'suspects' without an official's knowledge

Take in contrast the Silver Hand or the likes, 'bandits' with a shared belief n basic organization >_> the law means, n so too with morals. Even if their sworn enemy is lawful n good.. they still wish them harm. Typical to have a narrow mind, but they are far from any hero by my standards. Maybe groups like these wouldnt be so problematic if they didnt operate out of caves or had better standards.. they do have some of the resources for combatting actual threats, but thats it. It means little of your intent if the ends justify the means... even if that includes every innocent that gets in the way

There will always be sects like these, its just a question how lawfully bound they are n much authority they truly carry

~This is the raw opinion of Beta, dictated but not read

[Dark Spark]

I get the feeling that if a Vigilant resorts to attacking a citizen, it's in a "Go ahead, make my day..." sort of situation where the person they're apprehending is the one who makes the first move. The Vigil simply fires back with disproportionate force.

They'll bluster and harass, hoping the one they're confronting will get violent so they'll have justification. But the Vigil knows they cannot initiate the violence or they'll get in trouble with authorities.

[The SheoDovah]

I think the Vigils are small fry and a mere nuiscance to all of the nine holds and most Jarls are more concerned with the Dragons and civil war. Sure, after the Dovahkiin whooped Alduin's ass, they may have viewed the small fry as something worth dealing with but it's mostly just "oh, ignore them unless they break my laws." Although if the Vigils did try to attack citizens, they would be viewed as criminals. It would be easy for the vigils to lie about their murders and well, they are all talk. The Dawnguard, however, they are equipped to deal with vampires and are legal. All they need to do is just co-operate with the Jarls and probably can prove it. Vigils? They well, let's just say that there was a reason why they got their asses handed to them.

[MetaCthulhu]

Vigilantes of Stendarr = The Silver Hand, except the Vigilantes hunt Daedra, who are pretty much despised at this point, and the Silver Hand kills members of the Companions. So one gets more leeway not because of what they do, but because of who they do it to.

If the guards loved Daedra and hated the Companions, I'd bet Vigilants would be the ones living like bandits.

[BetaB17]

Except here's the thing >_> the Vigils often dont have to resort to illegal means, and if anything, may actually be enlisted at times to handle some daedra worshipper.. i.e like a dangerous cult nearby that actually is being a menace for once. Now thats not to say they dont harass peaceful types(like many dunmer), bc they do n often its the community or the guards that step in. Now outside of towns >_> maybe they may be more aggressive, acting purely on faith n causing trouble where there previously was none(not all daedric cults are evil).

Now compare that to the Silver Hand.. they hunt werebeasts, who obviously are a menace. Some may be peaceful, but most give in to the Hunt. Yet look at the Companions, they are clearly a good faction, n what few werewolves they have are far from feral or a menace >_> the Hand dont care, they even chargedd through a major city, attacked a famed faction of heroes, n likely would of kkilled any who got in their way. That doesnt sound like any Vigilant, does it? As brash as both can be, one clearly works under the assumption their actions are beyond moral laws.. heck, I could even bet the ppl of Whiterun could come to terms with the Companions if they found out their secret <_< after all, their the ones who come to your aid when the guards dont. Im pretty sure the Hand is the last folk you want coming to your aid

Its more than just who hunts what, but how they go about it. Even if alot of it is morally questionable, one of them still operates within Imperial law

[The SheoDovah]

Only, they don't work together and both are jokes. Ok, maybe not the Silver hand as they actually managed to do something. Granted, they ended up with a wolf with the soul of a dragon wiping them out but the Vigils? Pfft, they got taken apart before the Dovahkiin potentially became aware of their mere existence. I do wonder if they would have been dumb enough to claim that the Dovahkiin is an abomination if they had managed to wipe out everything else they deemed supernatural?

That is a good point, Beta but i think they view themselves as above the law. Would have been interesting if Dawnguard had a minor Vigils/Dawnguard plot.

[BetaB17]

Wait.. the Vigils in skyrim only got wiped out bc they meddled with the vampires.. something +for whatever reason) that was too strong for them to handle alone. Also, just bc during the events in skyrim doesnt mean they dont get stuff done. They have outposts, regular patrols, n even a local base. If anything, their success is evident, likely even on the political level. They have the ppl's trust(to an extent) and their enemies are largely scattered, thus their victories are smaller n far between.The most important thing is tho, after the Crisis, they helped bring a sense of protection


Now the vigils may think their sect is beyond the law(which isnt exclusive mind ya, look at most Imperial factions), a will of a Divine that must be done.. but they still act civil, do they not? No More than the Thalmor, just generally more openly welcomed.

[The SheoDovah]

To be fair, they weren't just vampires. They were Harkon's lot and they made the tragic mistake of underestimating them. The Vigils, they are nice but i do suspect they wouldn't hesitate to slaughter Daedric worshippers of the princes who are nice by Daedra standards. E.g. Sheogorath on his good days, Azura etc.. However, it may be possible that during the first 50 years of the 4th Era, they were at their prime and just slowly faded out of the minds of the people. Followed by the Thalmor being the biggest threat and i could see the Thalmor arresting the Vigils for any reason they please thus we see the shell of their former selves.

[MidbossVyers]

http://uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Oblivion Huh, back in Daggerfall, Azura and Molag Bal were allies, but to the Dunmer, Azura is "good", and Molag Bal is "bad". Obviously, good and evil are relative, but allies and enemies usually are not.

[MetaCthulhu]

http://uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Oblivion Huh, back in Daggerfall, Azura and Molag Bal were allies, but to the Dunmer, Azura is "good", and Molag Bal is "bad". Obviously, good and evil are relative, but allies and enemies usually are not.

And the Temple of Stendarr is allies with Boethiah. Weird.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

http://uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Oblivion Huh, back in Daggerfall, Azura and Molag Bal were allies, but to the Dunmer, Azura is "good", and Molag Bal is "bad". Obviously, good and evil are relative, but allies and enemies usually are not.

They're enemies in Morrowind, but not necessarily other places. This can be explained by either Mythopoiea, or bored immortals simply messing with mortals' minds by playing the roles and stereotypes they're assigned by various cultures. Or both. Both is a fun option.

[legoless]

To be honest, I wouldn't put much weight in Daggerfall relationship data. It's interesting to look at, but a little nonsensical from a lore standpoint.

[MetaCthulhu]

It is cool to see how things changed as time went on though.