Miraak, Vestige or Mortal not Subject to Time?

[MidbossVyers]

I'm sure that many of you know what a Vestige is, so I'll skip that. However, this Haskill interview http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Chamberla ... _Questions brought up an interesting point. The way that I interpreted that line about being affected by time by not subject to it is that humans under the "care" of a Daedric Prince still feel the passage of time (in other words, they are not time stopped), but they do not age, or at the very least, they only age as much as their respective Daedric Prince allows.

Obviously, Miraak is human but has lived for far longer than a common human can. One answer is that he is a Vestige. The other answer is that, after being "rescued" by Hermaeus Mora and placed in Apocrypha, Miraak would not age a day since his defeat at the hands (and probably Voice) of Vahlok (unless, of course, Mora wanted him to age a little bit more but not enough to kill him).

[legoless]

Not subject to time. Oblivion realms (and Apocrypha especially) are known for their disregard of Time. Miraak is also an exceptionally powerful individual, which generally equates to immortality.

There's no reason at all to assume he was a Vestige, unless ZOS wants to retcon that in for some reason.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

He also was bound to a Daedric realm and the will of its Prince, in much the same way Umaril was with Meridia. This changes a person's essential nature. They don't literally become Daedra, but they gain their attributes.

[MidbossVyers]

Well, isn't there something saying that Umaril is a Vestige?

[Pilaf The Defiler]

I'm not sure that terminology was being used back in 2006. He's said to be bound to Meridia's realm, and able to reform a new body like a Daedra, but that's about it. Granted, that's what a Vestige does, because of his lack of soul, but it's implied Umaril does still have a soul. Daedra all have souls. I'd say that's the main difference, and the reason I wouldn't personally call Umaril a Vestige. His soul isn't in a soul gem somewhere in Meridia's laboratory. It's still bound to him, in a way. There's just a very specific set of items and actions required to sunder it.

[legoless]

I'd almost call Umaril straight-up Daedric. He's only half Ayleid, after all. That starts to shy into demiprince territory, and his death in KotN draws strong parallels between ESO's description of killing a Daedra in Aetherius to destroy it.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

He's a weird "other" type deity. He's half Ayleid, half Divine [albeit one from a previous Kalpa], but also heavily Daedric in nature thanks to his pact. He's all over the place. I'm not sure anyone else in the lore is exactly like him. Miraak is the most similar, but slightly different. [I'd definitely argue in favor of Miraak being Daedric. He can't leave Apocrypha without siphoning a huge amount of energy from the Earthbones, which is telling.]

[Leckan]

I'm not sure that terminology was being used back in 2006. He's said to be bound to Meridia's realm, and able to reform a new body like a Daedra, but that's about it. Granted, that's what a Vestige does, because of his lack of soul, but it's implied Umaril does still have a soul. Daedra all have souls. I'd say that's the main difference, and the reason I wouldn't personally call Umaril a Vestige. His soul isn't in a soul gem somewhere in Meridia's laboratory. It's still bound to him, in a way. There's just a very specific set of items and actions required to sunder it.

Hmm, so wait; wouldn't that make the Vestige a Lich?

[legoless]

Hmm, so wait; wouldn't that make the Vestige a Lich?

There's definitely similarities between vestiges and liches since both store their own souls in an inanimate object, but liches aren't animated by a Daedra. If you're talking about *the* Vestige however, (s)he's something altogether different.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Yeah. Definitely not a Lich. Functionally very different, and came to be very differently. Similarities, to be sure. The Vestige is in a class all its own.