Spectral Assassin vs. Alduin (not a power level debate)

[MidbossVyers]

Can the souls eaten by Alduin in Sovngarde be "saved"? In other words, after the Dragonborn slays Alduin, is Alduin's "stomach" cut open to allow all those souls to go to the Hall of Valor? Or are those souls "digested" and lost forever? If the former, then great. If the later, if you have ghost Lucien fight Alduin, and Alduin uses that dragon bite "fatality" on Lucien to finish him off, has Alduin devoured Lucien's soul, or does Lucien's connection to Sithis "overwrite" Alduin's soul devouring?

[Imbalance]

Sithis might be totally cool with it. Wouldn't it be somewhat similar to Neo entering the Matrix at the Source?

[Pilaf The Defiler]

I'd assume they're bound to and absorbed by his soul the same way Dragon souls are when devoured by another Dragon. Alduin has a unique ability to do this with any soul he binds to his will. If Alduin was truly destroyed/stopped for all time, the souls would be freed. Instead, when the LDB finishes smacking him around in Sovngarde, he pulls a Lorax and escapes through a hole in the sky.

As for Lucien being bound to Sithis, Sithis is just change. Alduin and gods like him are more Padomaic than anything. The end of the world/resetting of the Kalpa is the purest form of change. There's no contradiction here. Alduin is born of Sithis. Lucien's soul is bound to Padomay either way.

[MidbossVyers]

Yes, I once considered Sithis simply to be the force of change and chaos. However, something, like summoning a ghost back into the living world, is a sentient action, rather than a natural force. There were many necromancers who wanted to resurrect a loved one but could not get the exact soul back and only ended up with a mindless husk. http://uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vastarie's_Journal

In other words, summoning a very specific soul needs to be precise and accurate, or are you saying that the Dark Brotherhood summoning Lucien's soul is similar to Dark Elf spirit magic, which can call back the souls of ancestors and dead family members, given Lucien is a member of the Dark Brotherhood family? In other words, Lucien is bound more to the Dark Brotherhood, who worships Sithis, rather than Sithis directly.

[BetaB17]

I wouldnt go so far to say that >_> they may indeed worship sithis, but they just as much follow the Night Mothet. This makes sense, when you regard the rumor of her identity n that Mephala has close ties with Sithis <_< it can be questioned just how directly either faction is in a covenant.. tho frankly the Shadowscales seem to be the most devoted.

Regardless, whether in his service or by association, Sithis's influence might as well be unmatched. Plus, if the DB is indeed lead by Mephala, she very well has the power to bound n task the souls under her domain. By understanding, Sithis should too(tho I doubt he even cares). Lucien seems to be summoned n answers her beck n call just like Haskill would, or the nordic heroes from Sovngarde. Something greater gifted you with the power to summon them

Anyways, to the op, Pilaf has it right. Whether Alduin devours him or not, Padomay still gets his claim

[MidbossVyers]

Is the Night Mother Mephala? The Night Mother even has a mortal corpse. Unless, of course, Mephala decided to walk on Nirn as a mortal temporarily and then go back to being a Daedra. Alduin was born from Akatosh, right? Would he still be Padomaic? Regardless, I do get your point in that Padomay's soul claims take precedence over Alduin's, so even if Alduin eats Lucien, Sithis, Padomay, Mephala, whatever can just pull him out afterwards.

[BetaB17]

When it comes to the World-Eater
Alduin > Mephala

But ya, to stay on topic, Padomay is the literal force of chaos.. between him n Anu, they make up everything. Even if Alduin was designed to consume the Auribus, he still must follow the rule of power. They all must follow their purpose.. even if that leads to a new cycle of events everytine.. n world eating just so happens to bring the ultimate change change.. 2nd only to creation(which again, cycle of events)

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Yes, I once considered Sithis simply to be the force of change and chaos. However, something, like summoning a ghost back into the living world, is a sentient action, rather than a natural force. There were many necromancers who wanted to resurrect a loved one but could not get the exact soul back and only ended up with a mindless husk. http://uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vastarie's_Journal

In other words, summoning a very specific soul needs to be precise and accurate, or are you saying that the Dark Brotherhood summoning Lucien's soul is similar to Dark Elf spirit magic, which can call back the souls of ancestors and dead family members, given Lucien is a member of the Dark Brotherhood family? In other words, Lucien is bound more to the Dark Brotherhood, who worships Sithis, rather than Sithis directly.

Lucien is bound to the Mythopoeic version of Sithis that consecrates the Brotherhood, yes. It's like how in Morrowind, Mephala is a relatively benign deity who is called upon to bless weddings and the arrival of newborn babies. This isn't normal or a good idea anywhere else in the world, but that's who she is to the Dunmer. Belief makes it possible and logical.

[Dark Spark]

Given that the Night Mother's manifestation is necromantic in nature, she might be doing all the hard work in setting the connection between Lucien and the Listener, tagging his soul from her ethereal curio cabinet and giving it to us to play with.

Is the Night Mother Mephala? The Night Mother even has a mortal corpse. Unless, of course, Mephala decided to walk on Nirn as a mortal temporarily and then go back to being a Daedra. ...

It's arguable if the Night Mother is the corporeal remains of Mephhie's avatar or just a Dunmer dingbat who dallied with Mephala (perhaps as the first Listener), but the Dark Brotherhood was formed in defiance to Vivec's assumption of Mephala. They weren't fooled.

[legoless]

The whole reason Alduin's invasion of Sovngarde is such a big deal is the fact that the souls he devours are lost to Shor. Maybe the energy remains in Mundus or goes to the next kalpa or whatever, but that individual's personality has been irrevocably World-Eaten. So no, that Stormcloak soldier isn't gonna make a cameo in TES6 just because you beat up Alduin.

As for Lucien, he isn't really "in" Sovngarde. If you summon him there, his spirit is just as much of an invader as you are, dead or not. Just because he takes an ethereal form doesn't make him a soul, per se. I doubt a weakened Alduin would be able to devour anyone except the lost souls bound for Shor's hall - after all, the Dragonborn can waltz through his soul snare easily. Alduin using a biting attack to finish Lucien in combat doesn't correlate to Alduin devouring a soul that belongs to Sithis, it's just a gameplay thing. Try to summon him afterwards and see what happens.

Although assuming Lucien's soul is, for some reason, eaten by Alduin, I don't think we'd be seeing him again. The World-Eater might be Padomaic, but like Pilaf said the Dark Brotherhood's version of Sithis should be considered its own entity, separate from the Sithis of Argonia or the Padomay of the Anuad. Getting gobbled up for the next kalpa is gonna ruin your day even if you're an immortal spirit in the service of a death god, IMO.

[MidbossVyers]

So it's like the Servant summoning system in the Type-Moon Fate series? In other words, the summoned Lucien is a "copy" of the one bound to Sithis and the Void, so no matter what happens to that "copy", the original is fine (and therefore is able to make more copies). Actually, there was a glitch where Lucien disappeared when I fast traveled, but my active effects still had "Summoned Spectral Assassin" active. Trying to summon Lucien again resulted in 1 Spectral Assassin but 2 "Summoned Spectral Assassin" effects active, but obviously, glitches should not be taken as canon. Argonia and the Dark Brotherhood should worship the same Sithis, though, because Argonia has that... Shadowscale internship system for Dark Brotherhood candidates.

[legoless]

I wouldn't call it a copy. More like Lucin's soul manifests briefly on Mundus as a ghost until banished to the Void, perhaps akin to a summoned Daedra.

Argonia and the Dark Brotherhood should worship the same Sithis, though, because Argonia has that... Shadowscale internship system for Dark Brotherhood candidates.

Nah, Argonian worship of Sithis goes way beyond the Shadowscales, almost rivalling their reverence for the Hist. I believe in ESO there's an Argonian in Cropsford who goes into some depth on his perception of Sithis and how he's better than Zenithar. He seems much different from the husband of the Night Mother worshipped by the Brotherhood.

[MidbossVyers]

In that same vein, when Dagoth Ur was still getting powered by the Heart, if Alduin ate Dagoth Ur's physical body, would Dagoth's connection with the Heart pull his soul to safety before it gets digested for the next kalpa? Obviously, Dagoth Ur cannot go to Sovngarde normally because he is not a Nord or even human.

[BetaB17]

As the World-Eater.. he'll always win in this fight :eat: he's suppose to. If he couldnt consume a meager god, how else could he consume the whole kalpa <_< hence just how important TLD was

[MidbossVyers]

Ah, yes, even though Eating Birth of Dagon is not canon, it does show that even Lorkhan is afraid of Alduin. I'm not sure if Alduin himself was there, but, at the very least, Vahlok was assisted by other dragons when putting down Miraak's rebellion. However, Hermaeus Mora still pulled Miraak to safety.