Yagrum Bagarn by the time of Skyrim

[MidbossVyers]

Is Yagrum Bagarn still alive by the time of ESV? Dwarves are a subspecies of elf. Elves are long-lived. Furthermore, Yagrum is infected with Corprus disease but (at the time of Morrowind) not driven insane by it. While Corprus is damaging to the psyche, it prevents physical aging, so Yagrum most likely has not died of old age.

[legoless]

We don't know what happened to Fyr or his Corprusarium after the Red Year, but Neloth and Sadrith Mora are still around so Zarfibel Bay is probably okay. If that's the case, Yagrum should obviously still be kicking around. We haven't even heard of corprus since the destruction of the Heart of Lorkhan though, so it's all completely speculatory.

[MidbossVyers]

Well, the Nerevarine still retained (the positive effects of) Corprus even after the destruction of the Heart, so it would not make sense for Corprus to just instantly vanish for other afflicted (for better or worse).

[legoless]

Not instantly. The Tribunal's divinity took centuries to wear off. Plus, in Oblivion (and Skyrim's data files) we see blight diseases with much decreased severity of symptoms.

[MidbossVyers]

Which blight diseases in Oblivion and Skyrim?

[MetaCthulhu]

Black-Heart and Chanthrax Blight.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Bingo.

The things wrought by tampering with the Heart of the World will only fade very gradually. There's enough spiritual potency left behind for conjurers to use pieces of Red Mountain to raise Ash Spawn in the 4th Era, for instance.

Keep in mind that the Tribunal hadn't tapped into the Heart to renew their divine powers in a very long time as of the events of Morrowind, and were still very powerful. It had been hundreds of years since they had access to the inner Heart Chamber, and a few decades since losing the Tools (excepting Wraithguard.) If you choose to fight Vivec and especially Almalexia in the TES III, you'll encounter beings who are clearly still much more than mortal Mer.

It stands to reason that the Blight would similarly take a long time to fully fade into memory, especially since it was being spread by Red Mountain much more recently in history. Full-blown Corprus won't be created any more, since it was shaped directly by the mind of the Sharmat, but the raw Blight itself persists.

[MidbossVyers]

I didn't mean new Corprus afflicted. I meant the symptoms of Corprus of those already infected.

[MetaCthulhu]

Is Yagrum Bagarn still alive by the time of ESV? Dwarves are a subspecies of elf. Elves are long-lived. Furthermore, Yagrum is infected with Corprus disease but (at the time of Morrowind) not driven insane by it. While Corprus is damaging to the psyche, it prevents physical aging, so Yagrum most likely has not died of old age.

If I may wildly speculate (It's the unofficial forums, if this isn't the place for wild speculation I don't know where is!), assuming that Bagarn is approximately the same age as Vivec (same ballpark), and assuming Vivec died of natural causes and wasn't killed by the daedra or the Nerevarine, and assuming the ministry of truth resumed crashing to Nirn the moment Vivec died, and assuming the tribunals divinity fades at the same rate as Corprus, then, assuming all these things, Yagrum Bagarn is probably dead...assuming all of these things.

[Jeancey]

Actually, assuming those things would make him alive. Keep in mind, the corprus stuff would have faded once the Nerevarine completes their mission, while Vivec's divinity started fading the last time they used the Heart, which was long before Morrowind takes place. Also, who says that Bagarn is the same age as vivec? We can assume that prior to them using the heart for the first time, they were normal Chimer, without that much magical ability (Sotha Sil Excluded). Dwemer might live longer than normal dwemer, we don't know, but we do know that Bagarn has some magical ability, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to be in another plane when the rest of the dwarves disappeared. He might be significantly older than Vivec. Also, if vivec's death due to natural causes was directly related to his divinity fading, then there is no reason to assume that Bagarn would have also died around the same time.

[MetaCthulhu]

Actually, assuming those things would make him alive. Keep in mind, the corprus stuff would have faded once the Nerevarine completes their mission, while Vivec's divinity started fading ~ 450 years ago. Also, who says that Bagarn is the same age as vivec? We can assume that prior to the tribunal using the heart for the first time, they were normal Chimer, without that much magical ability (Sotha Sil Excluded). Dwemer might live longer than other mer, we don't know, but we do know that Bagarn has some magical ability, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to be in another plane when the rest of the dwarves disappeared. He might be significantly older than Vivec. Also, if vivec's death due to natural causes was directly related to his divinity fading, then there is no reason to assume that Bagarn would have also died around the same time.

While we don't know the lifespan of a Dwemer, we also don't know the lifespan of a Chimer, so, since I don't have a lot to go on, I just assumed set them equal. But lets play around with this a bit:

Hidden:

If YB is the same age as VI, their lifespans are the same, and their conditions fade at the same rate, then YB will die 450 years later than VI

If YB is older than VI, their lifespans are the same, and their conditions fade at the same rate, then YB will die (450 - age difference) years after VI.

If YB is younger than VI, their lifespans are the same, and their conditions fade at the same rate, then YB will die (450 + age difference) years after VI.

If YB is the same age as VI, but his lifespan is shorter, and their conditions fade at the same rate, then YB will die (450- lifespan difference) years after VI.

If YB is older than VI, his lifespan is shorter, and their conditions fade at the same rate, then YB will die (450- (lifespan difference+age difference)) years after VI.

If YB is younger than VI, but his lifespan is shorter, and their conditions fade at the same rat, then YB will die ((450 + age difference) - lifespan difference)) years after VI.

If YB is the same age as VI, but his lifespan is longer, and their conditions fade at the same rate, then YB will die (450 + lifespan difference) years after VI.

If YB is older than VI, but his lifespan is longer, and their conditions fade at the same rate, then YB will die ((450 +lifespan difference) - age difference) years after VI.

If YB is younger than VI, and his lifespan is longer, and their conditions fade at the same rate, then YB will die ((450 + lifespan difference) + age difference) years after VI.

(I'm not even going to to factor in the fade rate; in short: the longer the fade takes for YB the more likely he is alive during TES V) (As for the magical difference, I think go ahead and add that to the lifespan difference)

Basically if you end up with "years after VI" being 200+ than Yagrum Bagarn is alive during TES V; if "years after VI" equals less than 200 he's dead.


P.S, If my math is wrong just PM me and I will fix it posthaste

[Jeancey]

Given the 450 year difference in the fade rate, I feel that it is more likely than not that Bagarn is alive at the time of Skyrim.

[MidbossVyers]

Are Yagrum and Radac the only 2 dwarves whom you meet on friendly terms, in any of the games?

[legoless]

Are Yagrum and Radac the only 2 dwarves whom you meet on friendly terms, in any of the games?

Yes, even in ESO.

[all_freed]

I think he will team up with the last snow elf to restore the other falmers.

[Borol gro-Brol]

Wait, so is there Nerevarine still biologically immortal?

[legoless]

Wait, so is there Nerevarine still biologically immortal?

Well, unless his corprus begins to fade, yeah. But since he vanished it doesn't particularly matter.

[Borol gro-Brol]

Wait, so is there Nerevarine still biologically immortal?

Well, unless his corprus begins to fade, yeah. But since he vanished it doesn't particularly matter.

Well it does matter kind of. Because if the corprus fades they die eventually of senescence. However, if the "cure" also prevents the end of corprus then they would continue to live. And was Divayth Fyr (I think that's his name) able to reproduce the cure? I never played Morrowind so I don't know every specific. I might be totally off-topic even but it seems to me that he should be able to similarly treat each patient in the Corprusarium like he did with the Nerevarine. I was just thinking it makes a difference as to whether or not he did and if that prevents the corprus from disappearing in the afflicted.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Wait, so is there Nerevarine still biologically immortal?

Maybe? Her story arc is complete, so we'll probably never know.

[legoless]

Well it does matter kind of. Because if the corprus fades they die eventually of senescence. However, if the "cure" also prevents the end of corprus then they would continue to live. And was Divayth Fyr (I think that's his name) able to reproduce the cure? I never played Morrowind so I don't know every specific. I might be totally off-topic even but it seems to me that he should be able to similarly treat each patient in the Corprusarium like he did with the Nerevarine. I was just thinking it makes a difference as to whether or not he did and if that prevents the corprus from disappearing in the afflicted.

The cure killed any other corprus victims Fyr tried it on, and in fact it wasn't even a cure - it just removed the more negative effects. The Nerevarine is/was still diseased, and therefore still affected by the Heart's power.

[Borol gro-Brol]

Alright that clears it up a bit. For me at least.