Steam Mods Now Purchasable (UPDATE: No more)

[Jeancey]

I'm understanding what you are saying. If it goes through the CK or if it is present in the game, they own it. So if you make it separate from the CK, but you loading it into the game, I think it is theirs. If I'm reading the agreement correctly. So that would be theirs, but something like Fore's texture creator, which is never intended, nor is able to be loaded into the game, remains Fore's property.

If someone tries to steal something, you can use send a takedown request to Valve. Same as you have always been able to do if someone uploaded something without your permission.

[Dohva.]

This idea has merit but the implementation is absolutely poor. I too would like to support good modders out there but I don't want to feel obligated to pay for something that has no guarantee of quality, could break save games, and might even be stolen. Not to mention, there are mods out there that use assets from other mods. How do you even begin to ask for money for content created by someone else? Asking for permission seems dubious. How do you even enforce that?

I still believe this turns modding into paid DLC. Perhaps if Valve had opened up their scheme with more substantive expansion-type mods I might be more receptive to the idea.

+10 on your response. Just browsing through the Steam workshop mods that are now behind a pay wall, I don't see anything that's worth spending money on. What a shame. I hope they're able to refine this system but the best thing would be a donation button for sure.

The biggest problem I have with paid mods is what Cam pointed out. How are we supposed to rest easy knowing that we spent X amount on a mod that isn't going to mess something up in our game? Also, how does this affect the future of the DLC? That's what I'm mostly concerned about at this point, is whether Bethesda is going to maintain good quality on DLCs. If we're paying for mods, will they be less inclined to give us additional content? Just a thought.

[Mauin]

Good grief... You know the guy behind the Midas Magic stuff on Steam? He actually added pop up ads telling you to buy the paid version to the free version. Ads. In a mod. Like... What the [&@%!], man. That's an entirely new low right there.

Evidently adding paid mods brings out the worst in some modders. Some.
I really hope that pulling stunts like that (and removing previously free mods in favor of paid ones) irritates enough people that they choose not to support those modders anymore (if they ever did at all). I don't know... If you're going to sabotage the free version of your own mod with ads just to make people buy the paid one, I don't think you deserve the business.

Edit:
This post might be worth a read:
http://imgur.com/gallery/qKU67

[Jeancey]

That post is full of holes anyway. Valve isn't getting all that much. Valve is getting maybe 10% before taxes. Bethesda is getting the lion's share of the profits here. Also, the $100 is the high end. When you start seeing money depends on your bank and the fees it charges. If you have a bank account that charges zero fees for transactions under $20, you might start seeing money the first time someone buys your mod. If your bank charges a fee for all transactions under $1000, you will only see money after you have sold $400 worth of mods.

Also keep in mind, they don't just GET that $100. They hold it until you cross the threshold (as far as I can tell).

[Dark Lord Cam]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/ ... -disaster/

Forbes' take on it.

[Dunmerdude]

That post is full of holes anyway. Valve isn't getting all that much. Valve is getting maybe 10% before taxes. Bethesda is getting the lion's share of the profits here. Also, the $100 is the high end. When you start seeing money depends on your bank and the fees it charges. If you have a bank account that charges zero fees for transactions under $20, you might start seeing money the first time someone buys your mod. If your bank charges a fee for all transactions under $1000, you will only see money after you have sold $400 worth of mods.

Also keep in mind, they don't just GET that $100. They hold it until you cross the threshold (as far as I can tell).

All but the top Mod makers who've opted into this system stand to make less money then they would have through a donation system. If you don't have the clout of a SkyUI or Wet and Cold you're unlikely to make the threshold. And it still doesn't change the fact that 75% of the gross is going to corporations who had nothing to do with the creation of the work.

[Dreadark]

I don't think it was a good idea. Seems like a cash grab. I use mods from Nexus though so it doesn't affect me.

I say add an optional donation button.

[Jeancey]

All but the top Mod makers who've opted into this system stand to make less money then they would have through a donation system. If you don't have the clout of a SkyUI or Wet and Cold you're unlikely to make the threshold. And it still doesn't change the fact that 75% of the gross is going to corporations who had nothing to do with the creation of the work.

In pretty much everything I've written I've said that the main issue, really the only issue that they didn't already provide a solution to, is the fact that the mod makers only get 25%. I think that's what needs to change, and if that does, this isn't a bad system. I have suggested switching it, and having mod authors get 75%, Bethesda gets 25%. That's where all the effort should go, not to some misguided attack on people stealing mods, because the restrictions in place are actually greater than they were when all the mods were free.

[Alarra]

Chesko's told his side of the story here; it's an interesting read:
http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comm ... _from_the/

[awkwardjoke]

I would prefer an optional, Patreon-like system. How it is right now is unacceptable.

Modmakers only get 25% of each purchase too. The other 75% goes to Bethesda and Valve.

It's a thinly veiled attempt by both Valve and Bethesda to monetize mods and is totally unacceptable.

[MetaCthulhu]

Chesko's told his side of the story here; it's an interesting read:
http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comm ... _from_the/

That's really sad. I don't think he's a content thief, after all he didn't act maliciously and was given the go ahead by a Valve officer. The bit about Nexus is quite interesting, and I would love to see more research into that. The "Real time update" at the end though: I really hate to say it, but unless he has something that overrules the EULA Valve and Bethesda can do whatever they want with any of the mods he posted.

[Mauin]

That's really sad. I don't think he's a content thief, after all he didn't act maliciously and was given the go ahead by a Valve officer. The bit about Nexus is quite interesting, and I would love to see more research into that. The "Real time update" at the end though: I really hate to say it, but unless he has something that overrules the EULA Valve and Bethesda can do whatever they want with any of the mods he posted.

The Nexus has responded to what Chesko said:
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/?

Edit:
Upon reading the newest comments... People have gone from Valve/Bethesda bashing to Nexus bashing. I feel bad for Dark0ne right now.

[Deandra]

Thanks for the links!

I still support optionally paid modding in theory, but it looks like the implementation is a total mess, which is a pity.

[MetaCthulhu]

I wonder if a site will take advantage of all the bad publicity surrounding Valve and Nexus, saying things like "We will never allow paid mods on our site!" I mean if Nexus's reputation is severely damaged, then a new site will arise and become the "white knight" of the modding scene.
(You know between the "chests of gold" and neutrality the Nexus is reminding me of Whiterun.)

[Mauin]

There's one supposedly 14 year old kid in the comments saying he is going to start his own site. "Monies isn't an issue because my mommy is a lawyer!"
That has got to be a joke... Has to.

Eh. Seriously, though, it wouldn't surprise me if another site did try to take advantage of it. Then again, they might get bad publicity for that as well.
The whole damn situation is toxic at the moment.

[awkwardjoke]

People are way overreacting about the Nexus.

I think in the long run the Nexus will be fine. 25% of each Workshop purchase is a pittance. With Patreon you're getting more, especially if your mods have a lot of exposure. And the Nexus is the more populated mod repository.

I agree a lot with Gopher's take on it: (Gopher's a major modmaker and youtuber, not sure how popular he is here)

Spoiler:

YouTube Link

Long vid but worth a listen if you have the time. Bottom line, Valve will be most affected. The backlash has been almost violent. I have a difficult time seeing paid mods continuing for much longer. And if they do, it'll have little to no effect on the Nexus.

[Dunmerdude]

I don't really understand why anyone would take aim at Nexus over this, Dark0ne refusing to play nice with Valve and Bethsoft would have at best resulted in no change, or at worst would have led to a DMCA notice demanding Nexus stop hosting mods for the 5 games that make up most of their traffic. What exactly do people expect him to do?

[legoless]

I, for one, welcome our new corporate overlords.

Creating the legal environment for a new marketplace like this has great potential. On paper, it extends the shelf life of Skyrim and other games for both the publishers and the users. The ravings of the modding community, in my opinion, stem for the most part from a misplaced attitude of entitlement and a fear of change. Giving people the right to potentially earn a living from their passion is great.

That said, Bethesda's classic corporate greed shines through once again with that ridiculous 75% take. Someone needed to fire Skyrim's whole PR office long ago. Valve's decision to keep this behind closed doors and enforce an NDA was also a poor decision, given the horrendous community backlash and the author of that fishing animation's unnecessarily public opposition. If the companies actually attempt to do some damage control and show a little good faith when it comes to copyright, I still have high hopes for this system.

As for any modder who takes down older versions of essential mods (patches, UI, whatever) in favour of locking them entirely behind a paywall, they deserve all the bad rep and pirating they get, and will hopefully have their rights to the software revoked. Beth will no doubt realise the damage something like that would cause. I just hope no one is dumb enough to try it.

[Dreadark]

I'm actually starting to dislike the haters of paid mods more than I dislike paid mods. They've been taking their hate all the way to Oblivion, Morrowind, and even Portal 2. People are getting so butthurt and enraged over this. It feels like a Elementary school war. Just looking at the Community Hub the childishness leaks out.
I remain in the middle right now, but the haters aren't making themselves look good.

[MetaCthulhu]

Alright, as it sits now I think these are the best and worst possible scenarios.

Best: Bethesda and Valve agree to reduce their cut of the profits. Top modders take the opportunity to create DLC level content and get rich in the process. Lower level modders continue to pump out free mods which work well as compliments to the paid mods.

Worst: Valve and Bethesda realise that nobody is going to buy their mods when people can get a functional replacement for free, and eliminate any mods which compete with their profits, effectively crippling the modding community. No modders take the time to build an actually beneficial mods and the mod store becomes filled with 1$ armour re-textures.

P.S. Am I the only one who thinks it's icky how Bethesda and Valve are in bed together?

Edit: I found an old interview from before the release of Skyrim: http://www.ausgamers.com/features/read/3076322 This workshop fiasco might be part of a plan to move mods to the consoles. Maybe.

[likelolwhat]

In other backlash news, there's a reddit for pirating paid mods now. Mara's mercy. (My objection to pirated anything is warring with my burning desire to give the worse sellouts the metaphorical finger; of course, I'm not downloading anything regardless of where my opinion swings. The existence of pirated mods is itself giving the finger for me, I suppose.)

Also, have you guys seen Mardoxx (one of the partners on SkyUI) imploding over this? SkyUI 5.0 (crafting menus added; not sure what else) going behind a paywall led to a request on /r/skyrimmods for a competing, free forever UI, which is perfectly reasonable IMHO.

It starts here... ...and gets worse.

To be quite honest, Mardoxx is going to find himself at the molten core of the Earth with this hole he keeps digging...

[Mauin]

So... According to him there's no such thing as a modding community...
Oookay then.

Every modder that is getting involved in this is just digging their own proverbial grave. Isoku, Chesko, Midas Magic guy, Skyforge Shields/Weapons guy, and now the creators of SkyUI.
I think it's honestly worse with SkyUI. At the moment, the only good thing they've got going is that 4.1 is going to remain free on the Nexus. If they had decided to remove it... Oh, boy. Imagine the outrage at losing a mod essential to many people's games. That's basically what's going on here, though I'd say it's not as bad as it could be.

It can always get worse... And I hate to imagine what that worse might be.

[awkwardjoke]

If there was no such thing as a modding community, mods wouldn't have lasted as long as they have.

[The-Shadow-One]

I'm reading through this all. And the evil part of me. Can't help but cackle. CACKLE.

[The SheoDovah]

Bethesda have made a statement on this. http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why- ... -on-steam/

I certain more then 8% of the PC userbase uses mods for the only version of the game that allows mods. I would say 50-60% at least not 8% and you did not just use Horse Armour as a point. *Facepalm* There's a massive difference between Oblivion's horsearmour and a mod that does it. One is an add-on by the offical developer, the other is something done by someone in their spare time as a hobby. And why the [&@%!] do you need 45%!? I seriously doubt mods are in danger of sinking the entire franchise due to TES being massive and i have yet to hear of a modding community causing the death of a planned game.

Also, you just destroyed the modding community by doing this Bethesda! You curs! Theft will rise, piracy will rise,Valve won't care, you get the cash and we are potentially left with dodgy mods, mods that are broken by updates and are not fixed etc..