Alduin depictions differences

[Woodhouse]

From what I understand of Nordic lore on Alduin, they thought he was unimaginably more powerful than any of the other Gods, daedric or otherwise, and would consume the entire Aurbis only to have the work restart.

Meanwhile, the Akaviri seemed to have an understanding of Alduin that fits much more in line with the events of Skyrim. For example, Alduin was not big enough to consume the totality of the Aurbis.

Does anyone know what could account for this?

[legoless]

Read The Seven Fights of the Aldudagga: Fight One, "The Eating-Birth of Dagon".

[DragonoftheNorth]

From what I understand the Akaviri never actually saw Alduin, they arrived well after he was banished in time, while the ancient Nords crafted their tales while under suppression at the hands of Alduin's servants, likely leading to much more fear

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Alduin's Wall contains a Prophecy, divined from Akaviri mystics. It's unknown if this Prophecy originates in Akavir, or in Tamriel, but it's known the Akaviri came to Tamriel seeking a Dragonborn, so it's likely the Prophecy of Alduin and the Last Dragonborn originated there. Also note that when wielding Dragonbane, a Katana, against the demigod he calls it "the weapon of my ancient enemies."

There are a lot of theories about the full nature of Alduin possibly being both less than mythology but more than we see in the game. If his mind is tied in with all Dovah, it's possible that he can see through the eyes of all of them, even when trapped in Time or "dead", and he remembers everything they remember. This would explain how he's familiar with Akavir and its warriors, and vice versa, despite him not physically setting claw on that continent. Alduin wasn't there, but Dragons were, and he's inside all their minds as the Firstborn of Akatosh, so he's seen and felt everything they did.

[Woodhouse]

Less than mythology makes sense, but doesn't seem to matter all that much, because if he ever appeared in full mythology form then the series would sorta be over.

More than the game though is interesting. Are those theories from out of game sources?

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Sort of a mix of Skyrim's portrayal of Dragons as "Shards of Time" and my own logical inferences of what that might actually mean. Logically, if all the Dragons are little pieces of Akatosh, and Alduin is "the jewel in the crown", he's closer to Akatosh's mind than the others, and can possibly see and feel what they experience in a similar vein to how psychically linked people in other fiction can.

Paarthurnax seems to imply that he could feel or sense Alduin's presence a time or two, and that he and the Greybeards can locate sources of Draconic power in Skyrim through their meditation with the Thu'um. The Dragonborn himself also seems to have a supernatural talent at locating Word Walls and Dragons. A typical adventurer may go a lifetime and never find a single Wall, but the Dragonborn can collect them all. There has to be some kind of mental power at work there, calling out like a beacon.

Also consider the strongest evidence of all - Alduin's resurrections of his fallen lieutenants, who were entombed in the years after the Dragon War. Remember the history of Skyrim as presented in-game. The Dragon War raged, and Alduin was cast forward in Time. The other Dragons were hunted down and killed. The remnants of the Dragon Cult buried their remains, for a time when they would rise again. Alduin would have been literally trapped in Time during the burial phase - the Late Dragon Cult Period. He would have no direct knowledge of these events, as when he reappears in the 4th Era it's as if no time at all passed in his mind. Therefore, the fact that he immediately senses and seeks out his fallen Brothers implies he's spiritually linked with them. He calls out to their minds and souls by concentrating. That implies a togetherness that borders on being the same person in different bodies. He knew where to dig up Salokhnir because he is Salokhnir, at least metaphysically.

[Br3admax]

Alduin's Wall contains a Prophecy, divined from Akaviri mystics. It's unknown if this Prophecy originates in Akavir, or in Tamriel, but it's known the Akaviri came to Tamriel seeking a Dragonborn, so it's likely the Prophecy of Alduin and the Last Dragonborn originated there. Also note that when wielding Dragonbane, a Katana, against the demigod he calls it "the weapon of my ancient enemies."

Pretty sure he's talking about Dragonrend, since I've had that several times without ever holding Dragonsbane.

[Dark Spark]

Recently at i09 they posted a Superlist of the 10 biggest dragons who were complete jerks.

Alduin made the list. I really don't think he should have made the cut, but the article did make one remarkable interpretation: Alduin was supposed to be a world-destroyer, but somewhere he gave up on that job and decided to rule the world rather than devour it (again).

Imagine it: every few eras or so Alduin shows up and destroys the world. Eats everybody, then goes away while a new world arises in its place. Comes back, goes away. Old world gets eaten, new world grows.

It kinda gets old for Alduin. Then along comes mer and men and mead, bar wenches, skalds and a cult of mortals who kneel before Alduin and yell "We love you!"

Alduin thinks this could get interesting. He and his dragon kin dominate the world and have a time of it until the Nords rebel and kick Alduin into the time-bubble.

Soon as he comes back he's downright [&@%!], gives up on this whole dragon cult business and decides to go back into Munchie-Mode.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Eh..that's new/interesting to you? Paarthurnax pretty much directly states that's what Alduin became, after you defeat Alduin. Admittedly, Paarthurnax's dialogue at this point in the game doesn't repeat, and if you only played through once it's possible to miss the reference, but that's actually canon dialogue from Skyrim, not just some game journalist theory.

Alduin was meant to be a divine World Eater, but he used his free will to choose to dominate and enslave mortals instead. It's ironic but somehow fitting that the son of the entity who gave Humanity free will and freedom of choice exercised it himself. Jewel of the crown indeed. Paarthurnax also states that his fate was sealed the day he chose to usurp Akatosh' throne as the god of Mankind for himself, rather than acting in accordance to his design.

It's possible that ten billion previous Alduins performed as intended, but this particular Alduin was an aberration. MK keeps hinting that the Kalpa that the main series takes place in is unique/special. It keeps finding ways to preserve itself, and this is all leading up to something big. Defective Alduin is just another cog in that machine.

[Trelares]

The most logical conclusion I can draw is that Alduin's power increases as he devours all the planes that were created by the Aedra and Daedra. Those planes directly represent the power of the being that governs it, therefore it also would make sense if Alduin's task starts with Nirn. Lorkhan is currently dead and the Aedra are to weak to stop him.

The best analogy to the "real" world probably would be a black hole, the more matter it absorbs the stronger it's own gravitational forces become.

Once everything that existed is reunited in the World Destroyer only the rawest forms of energy/magic/power remain meaning Anu, Padomay and Sithis reform once again to start a new cylce of creation.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

I'm not convinced this version of Alduin is even interested in eating the world. He never once mentions it or refers to himself as the World-Eater. Other NPCs do, but Alduin doesn't. About the only thing he mentions devouring is the souls of Nord dead in Sovngarde, which he claims is his birthright. Also keep in mind that he goes out of his way to resurrect the other Dragons. If he intended to simply devour the world, he wouldn't bother. It's pretty clear to me that he intends to re-establish his lordship over Nirn.

Interestingly, he seems to eat souls as a way to heal, and to increase his strength and durability, as he retreats to feed after the Last Dragonborn proves to be more formidable than he expected. Hypothetically, he'd continue to grow in strength as long as he kept devouring souls. I believe what we killed in Skyrim was the weakest possible form of Alduin, barely fed and crippled by being forced through Time, and to endure the concept of Mortality. Let's be thankful we didn't face the legendary version.

The interesting thing about the civil war in Skyrim is that it provided tons more Nord souls than during normal points in history. It makes me wonder if the war was just a coincidence, or if some divine force manipulated Ulfric into starting the conflict as a means to feed Alduin. Alduin himself was trapped in Time, but some sinister enemy like Orkey could have been behind this all. He's been known to free and manipulate Alduin in the past, like the time his ghost was temporarily summoned and Wulfharth defeated him and sent him back into the aether.

[legoless]

I believe what we killed in Skyrim was the weakest possible form of Alduin, barely fed and crippled by being forced through Time, and to endure the concept of Mortality. Let's be thankful we didn't face the legendary version.

I'm not entirely convinced. Miraak said he could have beaten Alduin, even when he was at the height of his rule. It seems more like the effects of prophecy than the relative strength/weakness of the combatants.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Well, clearly - and this is something a lot of people forget, but I doubt you have - he's literally invincible to anyone who can't use Dragonrend. So essentially most people, period, since hardly any living person can Shout, and that Shout is lost to time and forbidden to the Greybeards. Miraak claims he could kill Alduin, so either he learned the Shout or knows another way around Alduin's plot armor. Probably that instant soul-rip thing he does on his Dragon servants. Maybe that'd work on Alduin, too. Either way, Miraak boasts he could kill Alduin.

Either way, my hypothesis that he retreated to heal holds water. There would be no other logical reason for him to fly away. He was injured atop the Throat of the World in the initial conflict with the Last Dragonborn, and needed to heal. It seems both he and Miraak have figured out a way to heal by devouring souls, an art the Last Dragonborn never displays in-game.

[Dark Spark]

Eh..that's new/interesting to you? Paarthurnax pretty much directly states that's what Alduin became, after you defeat Alduin. Admittedly, Paarthurnax's dialogue at this point in the game doesn't repeat, and if you only played through once it's possible to miss the reference, but that's actually canon dialogue from Skyrim, not just some game journalist theory. ...

I just busted Al down in Sovngarde, and Parthy said nothing of the sort. He spoke of Alduin being the crown of Akatosh and how far he flew from the rightness of his path, but that's it. And that's far from directly stating that Alduin betrayed his true path and indulged his desire to dominate rather than destroy.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Which dialogue tree did you go down? Paarthurnax possibly says a lot of different things when you kill Alduin, depending on how you answer him each time. I had to replay that three or four times to hear them all.

I'm not the only person who remembers it, apparently, as a UESP article I never edited mentions it. It would help if someone added all of Paarthurnax's dialogue from this moment to his character page. Once I get a decent gaming PC I plan on doing that myself, if nobody else does.

[Dark Spark]

I went with the "You don't seem happy about it." path, and Parthy went on about about how Alduin was his brother. "Melancholy is an easy trap for a dova to fall into. Krosis. This is your triumph..." and whatnot, and the next world will indeed have to take care of itself.

The other two dialogue options seemed gloaty. If Fate has you in the cross-hairs, a gloat or boast is the cue for her to take the shot. Fate is a comedian in that regard.

[Minor Edits]

Yes. There were a few of us that rebelled against Alduin's thur... his tyranny. We aided the humans in his overthrow.

Alduin always was pahlok - arrogant in his power. Uznahgar paar. He took domination as his birthright.

Yes. Alduin... zeymah. The elder brother. Gifted, grasping and troublesome as is so often the case with firstborn.

His doom was written when he claimed for himself the lordship that properly belongs to Bormahu - our father Akatosh.

You did what was necessary. Alduin had flown far from the path of right action in his pahlok - the arrogance of his power.

One last bit

The Nords of those days used the Dragonrend Shout to cripple Alduin. But this was not enough. Ok mulaag unslaad.

Alduin was "crippled" once. If he was neutralized in some way in events pre-dating the Dragon War, perhaps he couldn't bring about the end of this world the way he wanted. We may have never actually seen the "World-Eater" in all his glory.

Imagine the world's a prized dairy cow, and Akatosh confiscated his eldest son's rifle so the entitled brat wouldn't kill and eat it. So the son thinks, If I can't eat it, then I'm sure as hell gonna ride off with it, and that ancient prick really is crazy if he thinks I'm gonna share the milk. Where's my saddle... hey, who the **** are you?

Your youngest bro. Dad sent me. Like my rifle? Get off of Nirni, you dick!

[Niid Onikaan]

The interesting thing about the civil war in Skyrim is that it provided tons more Nord souls than during normal points in history. It makes me wonder if the war was just a coincidence, or if some divine force manipulated Ulfric into starting the conflict as a means to feed Alduin. Alduin himself was trapped in Time, but some sinister enemy like Orkey could have been behind this all. He's been known to free and manipulate Alduin in the past, like the time his ghost was temporarily summoned and Wulfharth defeated him and sent him back into the aether.

This is something sort of backed up by Ulfric's words if you meet him in Sovngarde:

"Skyrim was betrayed, the blood of her sons spilled in doomed struggle against fate. And so in death, too late, I learn the truth - fed by war, so waxed the power of Alduin, World-Eater - wisdom now useless. By gods' jest in this grim mist together snared, Stormcloak and Imperial, we wander hopeless, waiting for succor."

My TEs conspiracy theory is going into overdrive trying to link Hermeaus Mora to Jurgen Windcaller and Windcaller to the Civil War. Ulfric only got involved in the Great War because he couldn't stand by and do nothing, using the Voice in combat for the first in thousands of years. This powerful symbol of Nordic might was a huge factor in determining which side some holds would join.

The upshot being that Ulfric's leaving of the Greybeard Order set in motion the final part of the prophecy - sundered, kingless, bleeding - which meant a Dragonborn had to arrive.

Who gained from that? Herma-Mora, Gardener of Dovahkiin.

[legoless]

The Nords of those days used the Dragonrend Shout to cripple Alduin. But this was not enough. Ok mulaag unslaad.

Alduin was "crippled" once. If he was neutralized in some way in events pre-dating the Dragon War, perhaps he couldn't bring about the end of this world the way he wanted. We may have never actually seen the "World-Eater" in all his glory.

That "crippling" is what we see in the moth vision at the Time-Wound. Dragonrend was first used during the Dragon War, not before it. It proved not to be enough when the three Nord heroes couldn't kill him, forcing the old guy to banish Alduin outside of Time.

[Minor Edits]

That "crippling" is what we see in the moth vision at the Time-Wound. Dragonrend was first used during the Dragon War, not before it. It proved not to be enough when the three Nord heroes couldn't kill him, forcing the old guy to banish Alduin outside of Time.

Sorry, that wasn't clear, but that's not what I meant: he was crippled once, so he might well have been crippled even before that. A crippling preceding the crippling we saw. I mentioned that he was crippled once as a sort of proof that diminishing him was possible. And Dragonrend itself would not be necessary to do so. Anything mortals can do, Akatosh could do better.

[Starfang]

It really would have been something if in-game Alduin had maintained the 'world-eater" image, perhaps sucking up the worlds by using supernatural forces like "the nothing" that would tear parts of Skyrim asunder, leaving them to float endless adrift in a void between darkness and light similar to the fates of the worlds in the Kingdom Hearts series (fragmented, leaderless, and scattered).

[Dark Spark]

Alduin devoured souls in the afterlife. What if he "ate" a world by making it so that less and less people are born into each new generation because there are fewer and fewer souls left around as his feast bears on?

That's how I see him destroying the world: Alduin breaks that "Circle of Life" thingy that goes on.

[Trelares]

Alduin devoured souls in the afterlife. What if he "ate" a world by making it so that less and less people are born into each new generation because there are fewer and fewer souls left around as his feast bears on?

That's how I see him destroying the world: Alduin breaks that "Circle of Life" thingy that goes on.

Honestly I doubt that would work out, think about this:
If there is only an amount X of souls available and not all are recycled then the world would end eventually. But even without Alduin there are mechanisms that seem to indicate that some souls are left out of the rebirth circle, which either means the world already has a death date set up or there is a way to fill the "gap" for example by duplicating or recreating souls.

[Dark Spark]

Mind you, this is a world with an expiration date.

[Pilaf The Defiler]

Akatosh and Talos seem to be conspiring to delay that expiration date indefinitely, though. This Kalpa seems different/unique compared to previous ones we've heard about, although admittedly our information on those is far from comprehensive. Alduin from the Seven Fights seems to imply something horrible and unintended would happen if a Kalpa were left to continue playing out forever. That would be an interesting OOG thing for the devs to play with in future installments, in my opinion. Imagine if weird "glitches" in reality started happening from the Nirn "program" running too long without "defragmenting".