Lore General Discussion!

[Trelares]

Not really sure what you see there, they have a vague similar appearance but that's all.

The Eye of Magnus is an almighty artifact of unknown origin (although one can assume it's probably linked to some higher being, possible even Magnus himself, otherwise it's powers over Magnus' staff would seem a bit strange).

The Orrery is a Ayleid scrying device.

Other than their vague resemblance I don't see much that would connect them.

[Dark Spark]

They're floating orb-thingys. So is this...

...but similar appearances do not alone a MacGuffin make.

As to the image above, what is the engine behind Dwemer automata? I can imagine Dwemer structures using geothermal ("geo-" means "Earth-", so would 'nirnthermal' be more accurate?) energy to run machinery built into the structure. But what is this thing at the heart of a Centurion? Exothermic decay with extremely high energy density (thus consider a Centurion to be like an Energizer Bunny, but with a big hammer) , or perhaps a catalyst for an external pool of potential energy— something that 'sucks' magicka from the surroundings and condenses it into useful working energy for the machine?

[Trelares]

Hmm, if you take Skyrim into account where all Dwemer machinations also have some sort of soul gem with them they maybe can drain some lingering magic energy directly from their surroundings and use the soul gems kind like a rechargeable battery.

[mondz_tes]

Hey guys/gals! In relation to soul gems, I have a quick question for lore buffs: is there any precedence in TES wherein one can theoretically soul trap a dragon soul given enough sufficient knowledge on the process and the right artifact(s) on hand?

[BetaB17]

I highly doubt any info given would be based in fact, but in theory.. maybe<_< it really depends on how you define a soul gem.

Those glowing little crystals that enchanters seem to adore? Or is it an empty catalyst that store a spirit given enough capacity? I do not doubt there are artifacts that are not bound to these characteristics, but neither do I doubt a catalyst can retain unique traits. If it is possible to steal the power or spirit of a god(Clav-vs-Umbra) or bound a powerful soul to a domain(Soul Cairn) then I see no reason why a dragon's soul cannot be captured, so long as upon release it can be claimed by it's origin. To use this strong spirit for enchanting may void that condition, so it's hard to say if it's even practical.

Remember, all this is just by theory, and the means to do so if possible may be the greater challenge

[mondz_tes]

Thanks for the speedy response!

A powerful artifact like Azura's Star would be sufficient enough to contain one, right? The examples you cite does make the task sound relatively achievable. Does it have to be reclaimed by its origin upon release? If it's impractical for enchanting, can it at least be used as a power source? Or infuse even a portion of it on a mortal soul to somehow artificially recreate Akatosh's blessing?

[BetaB17]

While the star may be able to store the soul of a power deprived god(Vivec for example) but I highly doubt it could contain a dragon's due to its very nature<_< dragons are more than mere beasts and greater than mer and man alike.. They are still subject to death yet timeless. The fact they are the immortal children of Akatosh may explain their anuic traits.

While any daedra or other would love the chance to claim a dragon as their own.. Few likely have the means aside from trickery or servitude>_> however try as one might their soul ultimately belongs to Akatosh. If it really was so simple, we would see more Dov in oblivion, Molag would have no need to make poor imitations, nor would there be a strong desire for dragonborns(though a desire there still will be). In my own personal opinion, I doubt any Daedric artifact has the means to bound a Dov, if they could then soul trap+Azura/Black star would work in skyrim

Honestly, aside from greater powers the only means proven to rend a Dov's soul from their body is another Dov... So even if by theory there was a means to store the spirit, it has never been done as far as we know. At the best, you claim an essence that can grant vast knowledge. At the least, it may be lost forever without gain or do nothing, either way you'll look like a fool.

On the side, I'm not even certain what occurs when a Dov is slain and not by it's own.. Does its soul remain tied to it's body till it is rend and destroyed.. Or are they too subject to afterlife? The first may explain how their skeletons could still animate or to how a ritual may revive them

[Woodhouse]

Tiber Septim soul trapped a Shezzarine, the nerevarine may or may not have soul trapped Vivec and or Alamexia, and the last dragonborn's dragon-soul was temporarily put into azura's star.

There's no real reason to think that it'd be impossible to soul trap a dragon

[mondz_tes]

While the star may be able to store the soul of a power deprived god(Vivec for example) but I highly doubt it could contain a dragon's due to its very nature<_< dragons are more than mere beasts and greater than mer and man alike.. They are still subject to death yet timeless. The fact they are the immortal children of Akatosh may explain their anuic traits.

Hmm, this is mostly my personal opinion and conjecture but we've seen in Skyrim that one can manipulate the properties of the star to house either a black or white soul so I'd assumed that setting it to the right frequency or note could theoretically house a Dov's. I don't entirely know. Thoughts?

Honestly, aside from greater powers the only means proven to rend a Dov's soul from their body is another Dov... So even if by theory there was a means to store the spirit, it has never been done as far as we know. At the best, you claim an essence that can grant vast knowledge. At the least, it may be lost forever without gain or do nothing, either way you'll look like a fool.

To be fair, possible spoilers in Dawnguard:

Spoiler:

To enter the Soul Cairn without turning into a vampire, Serana effectively severed a fragment of the Dragonborn's soul as payment for their entry to the realm so it could be possible. You can even reclaim that fragment later on inside the realm from a crystalline structure that behaves like a soul gem. I don't know if the ritual can be replicated by conventional mages or if it's something that only she (and possibly her mother) knows.

On the side, I'm not even certain what occurs when a Dov is slain and not by it's own.. Does its soul remain tied to it's body till it is rend and destroyed.. Or are they too subject to afterlife? The first may explain how their skeletons could still animate or to how a ritual may revive them

I always wondered about this as well. I also assume it's the former because of the reasons you stated.

Tiber Septim soul trapped a Shezzarine, the nerevarine may or may not have soul trapped Vivec and or Alamexia, and the last dragonborn's dragon-soul was temporarily put into azura's star.

There's no real reason to think that it'd be impossible to soul trap a dragon

Didn't know Tiber Septim soul trapped a Shezzarine. I have to look that up now. I somehow forgot the detail of the Dragonborn's soul entering the star so that could be an indicator although I don't know if them being alive and entering voluntarily makes a difference.

EDIT: Made some corrections and added additional lines.

[Br3admax]

Shezzarine and Dragonborn are both still mortal, so they can still be soul trapped and killed. Dragons cannot.

[mondz_tes]

Shezzarine and Dragonborn are both still mortal, so they can still be soul trapped and killed. Dragons cannot.

Hmm, aren't dragons still technically killable but they just have the innate ability to be resurrected by Alduin?

[Br3admax]

No. They can be resurrected because they aren't dead. Dragons only die when their souls are removed, something only a dragon can do.

[Trelares]

No. They can be resurrected because they aren't dead. Dragons only die when their souls are removed, something only a dragon can do.

That brings up the question how those skeleton dragons Alduin revives were "temporary" killed. Something like imprisoned alive or rather attacked till only bones were left and then buried?

[Woodhouse]

Shezzarine and Dragonborn are both still mortal, so they can still be soul trapped and killed. Dragons cannot.

Yes but the Shezzarine that Tiber Septim soul-trapped went on to form one-third of Talos. Once a god always a god, right?

[mondz_tes]

No. They can be resurrected because they aren't dead. Dragons only die when their souls are removed, something only a dragon can do.

Hmm, I should have stated killable in a corporeal sense. Yes, they can be revived by Alduin but without him in the picture they might as well be dead. Wouldn't that be enough to fulfill the requirements for soul trapping?

[Br3admax]

No. They can be resurrected because they aren't dead. Dragons only die when their souls are removed, something only a dragon can do.

Hmm, I should have stated killable in a corporeal sense. Yes, they can be revived by Alduin but without him in the picture they might as well be dead. Wouldn't that be enough to fulfill the requirements for soul trapping?

Um, no, because like I just said, they aren't dead. They are in a sort of stasis. They don't corporally die. The shout Alduin uses, if you actually translate it, is about giving them flesh, not bringing them back to life. Dragons are higher beings and do not compare to mortals.

Shezzarine and Dragonborn are both still mortal, so they can still be soul trapped and killed. Dragons cannot.

Yes but the Shezzarine that Tiber Septim soul-trapped went on to form one-third of Talos. Once a god always a god, right?

Um, not really. That doesn't have much to do with him being Shezzarine. I could put up a pretty good argument on why the Nerevarine mantled Nerevar and made Nerevar's soul "Shezzarine." Nerevar may have been a "god-killer" but I've seen nothing to say he was a god, per se.

[mondz_tes]

Ah, okay. It just clicked in my brain when you mentioned stasis and the shout translation. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Woodhouse]

Shezzarine and Dragonborn are both still mortal, so they can still be soul trapped and killed. Dragons cannot.

Yes but the Shezzarine that Tiber Septim soul-trapped went on to form one-third of Talos. Once a god always a god, right?

Um, not really. That doesn't have much to do with him being Shezzarine. I could put up a pretty good argument on why the Nerevarine mantled Nerevar and made Nerevar's soul "Shezzarine." Nerevar may have been a "god-killer" but I've seen nothing to say he was a god, per se.

I was referring to the Underking/Wulfrath/Zurin soul trapping biz.

[Hissien]

I don't even know why this is a question, the soul in a dragon is the same as a soul in a Dragonborn and we've been soul trapped by an NPC not once, but twice by mortals who are a master necromancers and a dabbling star researcher in the other, making it seem not only a likelihood but even a middling level task at the most.

Likely the only reason we can't is because we ourselves as Dragonborn absorb the soul itself and allow nothing to be left for a soul gem.

[mondz_tes]

Well, I posed the question because I was unsure of how a dragon soul's rather unique properties would affect its ability (or lack thereof) to be soul-trapped. Br3admax gave some points that I concurred with in the end so I thought that was that. Maybe there's still more to this?

[Br3admax]

I don't even know why this is a question, the soul in a dragon is the same as a soul in a Dragonborn and we've been soul trapped by an NPC not once, but twice by mortals who are a master necromancers and a dabbling star researcher in the other, making it seem not only a likelihood but even a middling level task at the most.

Yeah, classic gameplay story/segregation. The PC never actually "dies" in the same sense that NPCs do; that's why NPCs still talk to your corpse as if it's still living. I doubt anything is actually stopping even the novice necromancer from actually doing it. And it's not like the guy from Azura's Star even knows who you are.

[legoless]

That brings up the question how those skeleton dragons Alduin revives were "temporary" killed. Something like imprisoned alive or rather attacked till only bones were left and then buried?

Regular-killed and then buried to rot.

[lmstearn]

Pelinal Whitestrake has a ring to it. Of all the names in ES this is the one that won't sift through the memory. Whitestrake is reminiscent of all those computer generated names that appeared in Arena and Daggerfall. (Or were they?)

[IcarusBen]

Arena and Daggerfall had names that were randomly generated, typically from 12 prefixes and 12 suffixes, so I could end up with an Altmer named Gandalf Spellbinder, because "gan" and "spell" are two prefixes and "dalf" and "binder" are suffixes.

[AngryArgonian]

Hey general question to everyone on here. With all this Witcher vibe going round I can't help but to think of TES's own Wild Hunt. Does anyone know much about the specific types of monsters they transform into? Any relation to any Deadric lords?