Start game Apprentice equipment

[Chicken Slayer]

I looked up where to find all the dedicated apprentice level alchemy equipment, but when I went to Cloud Ruler Temple at level 3-4 the only thing there was novice equipment. What's up with that?


I don't do the mages tasks until later in the game so Fathis Aren's Tower is not an option for the calcinator I need.

[Perrie-Jeffs]

Apprentice equipment can be found in stores at level 6.Also in dungeons at level 5.

[Chicken Slayer]

Thanks, Perrie-Jeffs
At the time, I was trying to see how fast I could develop a super assassin/archer poison user, but since then I have been taking the worst assassin/archer build possible (an orc with no relevant skills) and seeing how fast out of the sewers I can kill the Uderfrykte Matron and Umbra using a rusty iron bow at max difficulty. I can get a full set of novice equipment for him on the way to Chorrol in Yellow Tick Cave.

Oddly enough, today I found the answer to my question. The calcinator and retort do not show up in CRT until Martin gets the Mysterium Xarxes and starts working in the Great Hall. This means to get a full set of apprentice equipment at levels 1-4, you have to be either a thief or face the Mythic Dawn mob. Both would tend to boost your levels past that window. I wonder if the set in Fathis Aren's tower is linked to the Thieves Guild quest. Has anyone ever snuck into Fathis' Tower before the quest?

[Jeff]

Yes you can get into Fathis Aren's Tower before the quest starts. The Alchemy items you seek should also be there, they are location linked, not quest linked. I have never done it myself, but the Wiki says you can, and has tips on how: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Fathis_Aren%27s_Tower

EDIT: I just ran through it, and you can get the items you seek. Keep in mind, that there are a lot of locked doors, so bring plenty of lockpicks. There are also quite a few enemy there as well. I used sneak and chameleon, but am at a bit higher level than you are attempting it at. You are also going to have to sneak in though the Bravil Castle, into the Lord's Manor North Wing area, with two guards posted there.

[PrinceJonathan]

You don't actually have to sneak through Castle Bravil to reach the Wizard's Grotto and Fathis Aren's Tower.

There is a backdoor you can take that leads straight into the underwater section of the Grotto where the Giant Rumare Slaughterfish spawns.

The backdoor is located underwater out in the Niben Bay. Just swim out to the letter "a" in the words Niben Bay on your map. The door is right under it.

There is a fair bit of stuff in the Wizard's Grotto. There's a Fine Steel Longsword, a Poisoned Apple, and a few samples of rare alchemy ingredients (very important if you play Midas Magic), etc.

It's a good idea to loot the place early because if you wait until the Thieves Guild Quest that sends you there, Fathis will likely have picked up one of the Apprentice Apparatuses forcing you to kill him to get it back.

If you go there early, he won't be there and you're free to take everything.

And this will NOT break the Thieve Guild Questline. I've done this several times and played through the Thieves Guild afterwards just fine. (although that's probably because I have the UOP)

[Chicken Slayer]

Is it possible to do it without a water breathing spell?

[PrinceJonathan]

I doubt it. It's a pretty long swim.

Why not just go do Go Fish and get the Jewel of the Rumare? Or go pick up Fin Gleam?

If you have trouble doing those, I think Base Necklaces of Water Breathing can be found at level 1 in boss chests.

Monster Dungeons would be the best as their boss chests have a 25% of enchanted jewelry, and you'd only encounter Imps at low levels.

Greenmead Cave and Crayfish Cave are the best Monster Dungeons, but they're quite large.

If you want to just run straight for a boss chest and get out fast, Fort Empire just northwest of the Imperial City along the Red Ring Road, and Fort Nomore near the Shrine of Sheogorath are good small dungeons for a quick pit-stop to pick up boss loot.

Oh and then there's Sideways Cave just outside the Tutorial Sewers. That one has two boss chests!

[Chicken Slayer]

Go Fish is an option, fin gleam is a bit out of the way for an ASAP out of the sewers quest. But Go Fish is not an easy quest at Max difficulty when all you have is a bow, short sword, and mortar and pestle from the tutorial. I could poison them and pray, I suppopse. I'll give it a shot both ways, breath holding and Go fish.

[Chicken Slayer]

I tried diving down to the trap door with my sewer-gate-save test orc without luck.

1) I couldn't find the door from the surface using the clear water graphics glitch.
2) The water was too dark to see the bottom until I was a few feet away from a rock etc, so I never did find the door.
3) Too deep. My breath was almost gone by the time I got down to the bottom, and I was on the verge of taking damage by the time I got back up. You would have to be an Argonian to pull it off.

I congratulate the game on actually making something too difficult to do without help.

[Lord Timster]

I think your best bet is to position yourself just to the west of where the door appears on the Local Map, and then head straight down. You should see it straight in front of you, with boulders on 3 sides of it.

Does the Speed Attribute affect swimming speed? If so then an Orc is going to have problems. Lots of Speed-boosts are available for a starting character though: the Base Ring of Speed is free, as is the Blessing from Akatosh altars. Spells and Potions for Fortify Speed are not expensive either.

Is a potion of water-breathing a possibility? If you can't make your own (Onion, White Seed Pod?) then maybe Alchemists might sell one?

[Chicken Slayer]

I didn't even think about using the local map. Duh.

The water breathing potion is certainly a possibity since there are some goldenrod plants at Fort What's-It on the way (Gee, isn't that convenient?), and it might be available as a potion or ingredients in the Imperial City. Fortify speed is also a possibility.

Random rings are not a possiblilty since I'm trying to see if these "quests" can be done by the worst possible race/build with nothing more than what can be picked up or purchased between the sewer gate and the destination. I suppose that building Alchemy to 25 to make the potion isn't much different than spamming Alteration to 25 and buying a water breathing spell from Edgar Vatrine; I have to build Alchemy to 25 to kill Umbra and the Underfrykte Matron, why not the Slaughterfish mother too, but if I can do Go Fish with novice Alchemy skill it would be a better achievement I think.

Thanks for the ideas.

[Lord Timster]

Sounds interesting.

FWIW the Ring of Speed isn't random, it's near Cheydinhal - on an outside, upper ledge of Fort Farragut. (Watch your step...)
There's also an Akatosh Wayshrine (to activate the altar blessing) nearby there and a DoomStone that gives a +20(?) Speed power on the way there from the IC.

I'm not sure how much deviation from Sewer Grate to destination you allow, because that's a fairly big one.

By the sound of it you'd rather be using the +20 Alchemy from the Apprentice Stone nr Skingrad I'd guess. A shame it doesn't give the Apprentice perks if you boost Alchemy past 25, though.

I just checked a few Shop & Mage Guild Alchemists with a Lvl 5 character - 'Potion of the Sea' (waterbreathing) does crop up now and then. Hopefully level 1 should also have a few.

Cheers

[Chicken Slayer]

Thanks,

From the sewer gate, I could take the round-about way on the road past Wawnet Inn and Fort Nikel (to get the fine steel bow) rather than going as the crow flies, but Cheydinhall and Skingrad would be out of the way.

I didn't think any of the alchemy or luck bonuses worked at all, and if that spell doesn't give the perks, it isn't what is needed here to make the ingredients work. I certainly could use it for normal play, though.

[Lord Timster]

"I didn't think any of the alchemy bonuses worked"

I just scanned through the wiki... and you are correct.
They do nothing, except the one in that Frostcrag Spire DLC tower.

Bah. Still, as long as it counts as a 'Fortify Skill' ability for the Spell-Making altar then it's not entirely useless...

[Chicken Slayer]

Success!

Go Fish does not work, the fish are too tough at 40 hp and 15x6 damage per bite, but there is/was a water breathing potion at the Golden Carafe.

Here is the walk through.

I started with my test Orc who has no relevant major skills and no added points in relevant minor skills (although he did have Security as a major skill so I maybe used a few less lock picks). I went to the City and sold everything but the potions, goblin staff, mortar and pestle, shortsword (not needed), rusty bow, and some arrows (I kept 100 but only used 13 or 14.) I collected all the free food from the Market and Arena District barrels and open bags, then I bought all the novice poison ingredients available at the Gilded Carafe and Main Ingredient. I also bought a water breathing potion at the G.C., a calcinator and retort at the M.I., and a summon scamp scroll at the Mystic Emporeum.

I made fortify fatigue potions with the free food to build up my alchemy skill, and then I made the poisons. I ended up with twelve 2pts x 8 second damage health poisons plus the 10 pt poison from the tutorial. My alchemy skill was at 19 or 20 after all that.

I used the local map to find the trapdoor in the bay and swam down to it (about 9am). I drank the potion just before I started taking damage. I had trouble finding the hole in the ceiling and took damage by the time I reached the surface in the grotto. I did not see the Giant Slaughterfish, but I wasn't looking for it, either. After healing myself, I swam down and found the side tunnel into the basement of the tower. I used a poison arrow and the scamp scroll against the churl standing there, and then came to conjurers behind jailhouse doors. Altmers were killed by one poisoned arrow, Bretons needed three poisoned arrows followed by some flares or shots from the staff. There were two such doors on the way.

I had one poison left when I came to the door to the tower, so I simply ran past the two scamps, grabbed the door key and the equipment and ran to the exit.

I took some wrong turns and opened some wrong solid doors a few times and got killed by the scamps and mages hiding behind them, but the ?four mages on the main pathway were all behind bars. I think the total enemy count was one churl, four mages, and two stunted scamps that I had to kill or get past.

I tip my hat to anyone who does this with a low endurance character at max. difficulty. My orc was able to take a couple of hits before being killed. It probably doesn't really cost much, and I could have sold the shortsword, goblin staff, a couple of my potions, and more arrows. The water breathing potion and scamp scroll were about 50-60 gold each, the poison ingredients were 2 or 4 gold each, and the calcinator was about 85 gold (I don't know if the retort helped or not.) Plus, I got money back by selling the Fortify Fatigue potions I made with the free food.

Thanks again for the info and tips.