Does this character creation makes sense?

[mike_krk]

Hey guys, I just finished reading some tips here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Chara ... lass_Skill

What do you think about such configuration?

Race: Dark Elf
Birthsign: The Mage
Class: Custom Class
- Magic
-- Endurance
-- Luck
--- Armorer
--- Block
--- Destruction
--- Mercantile
--- Restoration
--- Sneak
--- Speechcraft

My character will be fighting mostly using Destruction Magic and some one-hand swords (mostly swords at the low levels). Should I change anything? I don't want to level up very fast as it's not recommended. Do you have any suggestions to what I have chosen? I can still change it because I haven't exit the dungeons yet

Thanks!

[Chicken Slayer]

For me, Luck is an all-or-none thing (either 50 or 65 to start). Luck really boosts potion and poison strength when you start with Thief birthsign and +5, but I have never noticed much benefit to my survival in a fight or to the effectiveness of my combat skills (I also do just fine with unboosted potions and poisons most of the time) I would go for Endurance +5 and Strength +5 so you can carry more weight right away. On the other hand, I do not see your strategy for boosting magicka via Intelligence gains. If you do not plan on doing any Intelligence building then +5 in Intelligence would give you an extra flare cast or two. It's hard to say what is best for a balance race.

You have your major skills doubled up, which can cause leveling problems. Plus, they are in some things you will use a lot. If you cast a few fireballs, heal yourself a few times and do a little sneaking you will have to level up without a good attribute bonus in Willpower. Major skills are the enemies of Attribute bonuses.
Ask yourself if you really need to start out with Destruction at 25 or if you can afford to build it up as a minor skill over a couple of levels. The benefit would be almost sure +4 or +5 bonuses in Willpower each level as you go from skill 5 to skill 25. Alteration at 25 as a major skill gives you the ability to cast a feather spell right away, open two-tumbler locks, and use a water breathing spell-- all are god in a pinch but they are not constantly needed. I never use restoration because there are so many potions to be found, and waiting for one hour is quicker, but for those who do use it they have to use it a lot. Restoration and Alteration would be better than Rest. and Destr. since you would have have one uncontrollable and one controllable skill to work with.

I would just go with Block as your only Endurance Major skill. That way you can buy lessons for Armorer and be half way to a +5 bonus (added health) each level in addition to any points you get from hitting things with hammers. Health increases each level as a proportion of your Endurance, so building Endurance early is much more beneficial than doing it later.

I don't like middle-of-the-road races because you have to build from both ends. Give me a Nord who has to build Intelligence and Willpower, or an Altmer/Bretton who has to build strength (everybody has to build Endurance). Either way you have a strong side to lean on for back up.

I always choose combat as my skill set because those are the most difficult skills to spam. You can tap a button and casterbate magic skills in the privacy of your own home (or while walking out of a dungeon), but for Block, Heavy Armor, etc you have to stand in front of an angry something in some dark place and let it try to kill you.

That is my logic for the way I play. Take it as you will.

[Golden Sinner]

You actually don't have to level slowly. If you walk around with your character you will notice that NPC's are grinding their skills. Archers are shooting arrows at targets, swordsmen are whacking dummies and mages are blasting bulls-eyes. As your character levels up, so do all the NPC's. If you increase speechcraft and mercantile to level up and all of the NPC types increase combat skills, then sooner or later your character is unplayable. That's why some people advise you to level slowly or even cap your max level and play minor skills instead of majors. However, if you keep pace with combat skills, then you should have no problem. I max my characters skills out before I go adventuring and I have no problem. I play max difficulty, no reloads when my character dies and my character has nothing in his inventory except for some non-enchanted clothes. My characters rule. The game is really easy to play if you decide to actually play it. Good luck!

[Jeff]

Play the game how you want to play.

The only Attribute that cannot be fixed, is Endurance, which affects how much Health you get at each level up. Even then, not having Max Health is not a game breaker. If you are having difficulty, then use Enchantment Buffs, Spell Buffs, Potion Buffs, Poisons and/or Spells to DeBuff the Enemy. That is what they are there for.

It is easy to make a potion to gain more health and/or regenerate health. Enchant a weapon to Absorb Health. Enchant an item with a Shield Spell. Conjure a meat shield. Use stealth, Chameleon, or invisibility to avoid conflict. Lure the enemy to a location that benefits you, get high ground, where they cannot attack you, and you can blast them with spells/bow. Do not rush in, and fight them all at once, take them out one at a time. Not having Max Stats does not make a Character Unplayable, it just means that you get the fun of finding new ways to compensate.

There is no such thing as a Character that is Unplayable. There are only people that do not know how to play, and can only play, unless they have a Max Stat, God Mode Character. If anyone tells you that you need to Efficiently Level, that is the one person that you should not take any advice from. Oblivion does not have a Leveling Problem, Efficient Leveling is what breaks the game.

[Lord Timster]

Generally it depends on how much you want to control your levelling and how you want to play the game.

Because I am a little OCD about Oblivion Levelling, I tend to plan ahead which sets of 3 attributes I am going to want +5s in for a given level, and then choose Major / Minor skills that will maximize the ability to get 10 skill points for skills in just those 3 attributes through normal, organic play - and minimize time spent doing things that are purely to optimize the level-up.

The only definite change to your character I would suggest is to remove Mercantile from your Majors list. That may cause you problems in the early game. You need cash for equipment and training but selling loot will level you up before you're ready.

Best advice actually is to just get stuck in, play the game, make mistakes and learn from them. Then start again with a fine-tuned 2nd character.

[mike_krk]

Thanks everyone for detailed answers!

After reading it I wonder: maybe instead of Magic I should choose Stealth as the Specialization. Magic skills I mostly use in such games (Skyrim, Gothic, Risen) are Destruction and Restoration.
I rarely use Conjuration or Alternation and I never use Illusion or Alchemy. I haven't played Oblivion yes (well, I am still in the dungeons) so maybe this will change. But if it won't then choosing Magic as the Specialization seems to be a waste.

Choosing Stealth gives me few very often used skills: Acrobatics (I remember it from the Morrowind), Light Armor (not sure if Mage robes are qualified in Oblivion as Light Armor?), Speechraft (used a lot), Security (used a lot too), Sneak (sometimes, yeah) and Mercantile, which is a crucial skill.

About 3 attributes:

Strength - good because it affects how much my character can carry and I am a collector On the other hand none of the included skills are useful for me.
Intelligence - affects my Magica but then again, I am not interested in governed skills - Alchemy, Conjuration and Mysticism
Willpower - sounds pretty good because I believe that Magica regeneration is more important that total amount + it governors Destruction, Alternation and Restoration - skills I am planning to use.
Agility - interesting skills - Security and Sneak, but I believe I can learn the Security on a high level without that attribute.
Speed - I don't see that being very useful
Endurance - I decided it's not a good attribute for me. Fatigue or Health increase is not a crucial for a Mage.
Personality - not good for my character
Luck - some say it's worth to choose it, some say it's not. I haven't decided yet.

So it seems that I need to choose between Strength, Willpower or Luck. The main question is if choosing Luck makes sense at all and how much it can affect the game.


I have some questions:

1. When I carry a two-hands sword on my back is it visible when I cast a spell? Or when I choose a spell to cast the sword is gone from my back? This might be trivial question, but I really like the look of a Battle Mage with a beautiful two-hands sword on his back. It was like that in Gothic.
2. The Mage Robes are a Light Armor?
3. If I don't choose Strength as my favourite attribute, will I be able to increase the amount of how much I can carry later?
4. Does it look better then my previous configuration?

- Stealth
-- Willpower
-- Luck
--- Armorer
--- Destruction
--- Mercantile
--- Restoration
--- Security
--- Athletics
--- Speechcraft

Thanks for help guys!

[Jeff]

1. When I carry a two-hands sword on my back is it visible when I cast a spell? Or when I choose a spell to cast the sword is gone from my back? This might be trivial question, but I really like the look of a Battle Mage with a beautiful two-hands sword on his back. It was like that in Gothic.
I will have to check on this, as I do not recall.

2. The Mage Robes are a Light Armor?
Nope, Mage Robes are Clothing, not Armor. Clothing gives no armor benefit, unless you enchant them with a Shield Spell. Keep in mind, armor reduces spell effectiveness a bit: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Magic ... sing_Armor

3. If I don't choose Strength as my favourite attribute, will I be able to increase the amount of how much I can carry later?
Yes, all attributes (and skills) except Health/Endurance, will max out at 100, with no adverse effects.

4. Does it look better then my previous configuration?
If you are looking to play a Battlemage type Character, chose (custom class):
Specialization: Whatever you would like an initial boost to.
Favored Attribute: Endurance & Luck (if you want the early luck bonus to skills)
Birthsign: The Lady for a +10 to Endurance and Willpower
Skills: Whatever you think you would like to use for an initial boost.

Nothing you chose (race, attributes, skills) will prevent you from getting to 100, or allow you to go over 100. It really does not matter, as you can get them where you want them to, max 100. They do give you a bit of a bonus at the beginning, which can help you out early game. The one exception is Health, which is based off of Endurance. If you chose Endurance at Character Creation, then it gives you a bigger bonus at the start. Starting Health is your Endurance x2, so the more bonuses to Endurance at the start, the more health you start out with. You also gain 10% of your endurance at each level up, so the more you start with, the more you will get at each level up also.

Endurance is the governing attribute for Block, Armorer, and Heavy Armor. I would recommend dropping Armorer from your Skills choice. This way you will be able to use all 3 Endurance Skills and not worry about them causing you to level early, without getting 10 points in your Endurance skill. You could grind out a bit of skill padding after each level up, buy Conjuring a Skeleton, attack it with an iron dagger (less damage), and let it attack you while you wear Heavy Armor, Block with a Shield, and Repair your Armor. You do not have to do this a lot, just a few points of increase for each one, as you will use those skills adventuring anyhow. A Battlemage in game uses Heavy Armor, and you can repair your Armor and Weapons while adventuring.

It is not a game breaker if you do not get the +5 to endurance at each level up, but just keep in mind, that is how the system works.

___________________________________

EDIT :

I did a check for #1

It can work two ways. 1) If you have the two handed weapon on your back, and you cast a spell, the weapon stays on your back, and the spell is cast. 2) If you have your weapon drawn, in fighting/combat mode, and you cast a spell, then you keep the weapon drawn, and the spell is cast.

[mike_krk]

Thanks Jeff, your tips were very helpful

[Jeff]

Keep in mind, that there is nothing preventing you from starting a new character, if you find what you have chosen is not fun to play. For the most part, Oblivion is very forgiving (except with health/endurance). There are a lot of ways to compensate, but it can be a bit much to figure out on your first play through. Even if you decide that the "Class" your chose is not what you were expecting, you may not have to start over, just change what skills you are using. Even though you pick a "Class", you can play any way you want, using any type of play style. Nothing is stopping you from taking the Mage Default Class, yet playing as a Thief. Nothing is preventing you from playing an Orc/Nord/Redguard Battlemage (which would give you the best starting Endurance if you chose all of the Endurance boosts at character creation).

This is a good tool to help you figure out how your character will start out: http://linklost.com/occ/

One of the best ways to compensate, is via Alchemy. You can take a potion 4 times (the game will not let you take more than 4 at a time), for a real boost to stats/abilities. I'd recommend giving this link a good read: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Alchemy

Another useful tool I like for helping make potions, and which ingredients I need for them: http://www.uesp.net/oblivion/alchemy/alc_calc.php

[Golden Sinner]

Anyone can play with restore health potions, poisons and absorb health weapons. If you don't know how to play without these, at max difficulty and against the most difficult opponents without ever dying, then perhaps you should be taking advice and not giving it.

[Jeff]

Let me get this straight... YOU said the character would become unplayable. Then go on to say that you max your character out in stats before you even start adventuring. Then return to say "Anyone can play with restore health...". ...and you want me to believe that you play Ironman on max difficulty? I would be surprised if you have actually completed the game... Oh... wait, you use TGM too then? Anyone can max out their Stats, and use TGM. Do you actually read what you type? Obviously not, or you would realize what a fool you are making of yourself.

Anyone can criticize how people play, claiming to do things that they do not do. You however, have no idea how to give someone who is starting out, advice on how to learn how to play the game. Unfortunately, there are people like you, who feel that if people that do play as you do, then they are playing wrong. When you are actually the person who has no clue. Who cares how you "CLAIM" to play.

What is important, is to give people information, so that they can learn how to play, the way they want to play. There is no right or wrong way to play.

[Lord Timster]

@mike_krk

In addition to the other excellent advice you've got:

Specialisation. What you pick could be down to Perks. Some of the abilities you get at Skills 25 and 50 can be really, really useful - and every Skill +5 will help towards this.
If you're going to plan your Levelling then there are other factors. Skills in your Specialisation increase faster making any 'grinding' slightly less tedious, but it might also mean your skill groups are 15 points closer to hitting 100s and maxing out before you want them to.

Attributes. The +5 you get is tiny and not worth worrying too much about. It's the same as a single decent level-up. I agree with Jeff that Endurance and Luck are the way to go.

Birthsign. Mage is also a solid option for a Mage.

FWIW I'd also like to repeat my advice from above:

The only definite change to your character I would suggest is to remove Mercantile from your Majors list. That may cause you problems in the early game. You need cash for equipment and training but selling loot will level you up before you're ready.

Best advice actually is to just get stuck in, play the game, make mistakes and learn from them. Then start again with a fine-tuned 2nd character.

Not trying to be a jerk on this one, but you don't seem totally clear on where your character concept is going yet. There's talk about doing sword-fighting but health is not a priority, or using Destruction Magic without Magicka, and then a bit of Stealth pops up here and there.

I also think you are reading too much into this 'X Attribute governs Y Skill' thing, it is not always as important as it might sound.

All of these issues, I think, would best be solved by having a go at the game.

I guarantee you that your character concept will not level 100% efficiently. BUT: I also guarantee you that you will learn more about how the game works by sitting down for a few hours and playing the game with this character than you will from pages of forum theory-crafting.

Go and play the game! And then come back and tell us what you've learnt.

That is an order from The Champion of Cyrodiil...

[Jeff]

Agreed, just play, and have fun. It is the best way to learn. ...and as you can see, everyone has a different opinion on what is important, and how to play. None of it is wrong, you just have to finds what works for you, and how to best enjoy it.

[mike_krk]

Ok guys, thanks for all the tips! First of all I decided to play this game as slow as possible, doing all minor quests and exploring the world

[Chicken Slayer]

I suggest finding all the Ayleid statues you can right away so you don't have to worry about money. All that fighting with conjuraton will build up your power and give you confidence for other things. And bring some poisons from home for the Painted Trolls. After Level 1 a scamp/zombie spell and turpentine doesn't quite get the job done.

[OblivionDuruza]

Hi Mike, I hope everything is going well in Oblivion .

Keeping in mind that I'm sure you've probably already well and truly started playing, one thing that hasn't been mentioned or covered so far is that if you want to ensure that you don't level up too quickly or too often, you should choose Major Skills that you can control the levelling of. Choosing Athletics might conflict with that overarching objective, because it levels up simply by running and swimming, and you'll generally want to be running everywhere in the game, because of the relatively slow walking speed.

This means, that even if you choose to stop repairing your own armour for a bit, or temporarily swap weapon types so your skills don't increase, what you'll be able to do to control your own levelling will be limited. A similar issue can arise with Speechcraft, which levels very quickly, especially with the boost given by the Stealth Specialisation.

You might benefit from keeping this in mind, even if you don't actually do anything to change your Class or the way you play. I always find with Oblivion that being aware can give you as much power against the counter-intuitive level-scaling system as endless number crunching.

[mike_krk]

Actually I am having a little break until 13th March, already missing Oblivion!