ESO - Tamriel Unlimited

[noobishlord]

So it seems like our first MMO is going to Buy-to-Play, ala Guild Wars. Not fully free to play, though once you get it, it's yours.

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=35627

It will be supported via cash-shop and DLC sales. I'm actually somewhat interested in this. Maybe I'll get back into the game now, rather than having to get another monthly subscription thing going on. I have nothing against buying any future DLC that come out either.

Thoughts, the rest of you?

[Linkuya]

I already posted my thoughts in another thread, so here.

Hidden:

"Does this mean the game is safe to play now?"

I don't think so. One of the reasons World of Warcraft is still so fun is because of the subscription. Never has the game had anything even remotely pay to win (and no, the level 90 boosts they're selling in the in-game store isn't pay to win at all, I'll explain why if anyone wants to know via something like a PM, don't wanna derail the thread) and it's kept the game a level experience for everyone.

Now without a subscription, I feel like it's going to be very, very easy to screw this up and turn it into pay to win garbage. Here's to hoping it does not turn out like that.

All this being said however, I am going to probably buy the game around the time it does go subscription free. I hope that I don't feel as though I've bought half a game with a plethora of restrictions, however.

[Deandra]

All I really care about is whether this means I can finally buy some more character slots.

[Lorenut]

I've already posted my thoughts in another thread, but here they are

Hidden:

Not sure how i feel about the new model. I'll continue playing, but if it effects my enjoyment of the game then i'm done.

[Mauin]

Depending on how this turns out (and on whether or not I can buy a physical copy of the game), it may be what gets me playing. My PC might be old, but the subscription has been what has stopped me from getting it. It wasn't even the cost. I just never wanted to pay a subscription fee for an online game when my internet could be so damn unreliable (ah, the joys of living in rural Alberta. Costs a fortune for 70GB of data per month and horrible service).

I'm fine with paying for it once, though. At least I could play it casually without having to worry about paying for something I'm not going to be able to use that frequently.

[Alarra]

This is what I posted on the UESP FB page in a discussion about it:

My view on this is that if you're already a subscriber and do ESO Plus, there's really no change: you're still getting access to all newly released areas, but you also get the bonus of the in-game currency (even retroactively) and XP boosts. Plus, this model works great for people who couldn't afford or don't want to to pay monthly.

I'm still a bit leery about the cash shop, although things in it look fun, and hope things won't cost too much (and that they'll not, say, force bank slots behind a payment wall like GW2), and I hope it doesn't have an adverse affect on the overall friendly community, but we'll see how it goes.

[baratron]

I hope it doesn't have an adverse affect on the overall friendly community, but we'll see how it goes.

So, this is my opinion and not that of the North American UESP Guild. I feel as though I should mention that .

Yeah, the main thing which is making me leery about the idea is the fact that the ESO community at present is skewed towards older players. The age of members in the North American UESP Guild ranges from 18 to over 50, with the average somewhere around 30. Of course 'older' doesn't mean that a person is automatically 'more mature', but there's a slight correlation. I find that with the exception of /zone in some areas, other players are friendly and helpful.

I don't like the idea of a bunch of freeloading kids coming to the game and messing up the community that we have. Will I be running around Tamriel shouting "GET OFF MY LAWN, YOU VARMINTS!" *shakes walking stick* ? I hope not.

I'm hoping that there'll be a month or two with freeloaders coming in to see what the game is about, and then they'll get bored and shuffle off to whatever the next New Game Of The Month is, while people who are sensible and mature but simply cannot pay for the subscription (because their internet is too unreliable or their work hours are too long to guarantee them a reasonable number of hours on the game, or because they are struggling to manage on disability benefits) will stay around. Yes, I distinguish between people who cannot pay for good reasons and people who will not pay because they're cheap gits .

I still need to sit down and watch the video, which I was told is an hour and a half long.

Also, GUAR MOUNTS!

[Skrofler]

I will get back in to see what's new. That's for sure.
I've seen some interesting changes in the patch notes, level scaling dungeons being the most important.

But the reason I quit is likely still there. It's the best single player MMO I've ever had, but I really wish there were more incentive to group up. Also, they made the world so predictable and dull. There's virtually nothing in the game that doesn't exist for a gameplay reason.

I came to think about this when I stumbled across this NPC in WoW standing in a completely redundant place selling booze. (The vendor halfway between the mouth of the Caverns of Time and the KoT quartermaster.) There's no reason for him to be there and no reason for any player to ever be there. He's just there to add some colour. When you think of it WoW is full of these little quirks, and has lots of areas where nothing much happens, just like a real world. Wilderness basically.
This is what makes it feel like a living breathing (cartoonish) world and the lack of it makes ESO feel like just a theme park, with every single thing carefully laid out to optimise questing.

Almost went on a rant there. In short, I will be back and have another go. Nothing to lose now innit?

[The SheoDovah]

I'm not fond of the idea of having to pay £40+ for a game and then having to pay £15+ a month to play it as i would not be able to justify forking out £15 due to my gaming nature. By going free to play, it does give me a reason to give ESO a chance once i have the broadband and the laptop capable of running it. However, this does increase the risk of it becoming another MMO filled with gamers that insult, threaten and harrass others due to the lack of a paywall. There is also the risk of hackers ruining the game because they view it as an excuse. But i will confess, i don't have much experience with online gaming.

By going free to play, ESO will be something i will pick up. Hopefully, this does not give Zenimax a reason to stop supporting it after less then a year or worse, turn it into Pay to Win. I do wonder if Zenimax have dropped the subscription to bolster the monthly user base or if they realised that the age of paid subscription MMOs is nearing it's end.

BUT if they bring out dragons as DLC or worse, as a new pet in the form of microtransaction. Someone is getting the head of M'aiq in their bed!

[Deandra]

I hope it doesn't have an adverse affect on the overall friendly community, but we'll see how it goes.

So, this is my opinion and not that of the North American UESP Guild. I feel as though I should mention that .

Yeah, the main thing which is making me leery about the idea is the fact that the ESO community at present is skewed towards older players. The age of members in the North American UESP Guild ranges from 18 to over 50, with the average somewhere around 30. Of course 'older' doesn't mean that a person is automatically 'more mature', but there's a slight correlation. I find that with the exception of /zone in some areas, other players are friendly and helpful.

I don't like the idea of a bunch of freeloading kids coming to the game and messing up the community that we have. Will I be running around Tamriel shouting "GET OFF MY LAWN, YOU VARMINTS!" *shakes walking stick* ? I hope not.

I'm hoping that there'll be a month or two with freeloaders coming in to see what the game is about, and then they'll get bored and shuffle off to whatever the next New Game Of The Month is, while people who are sensible and mature but simply cannot pay for the subscription (because their internet is too unreliable or their work hours are too long to guarantee them a reasonable number of hours on the game, or because they are struggling to manage on disability benefits) will stay around. Yes, I distinguish between people who cannot pay for good reasons and people who will not pay because they're cheap gits .

I still need to sit down and watch the video, which I was told is an hour and a half long.

Also, GUAR MOUNTS!

So, I actually agree with this somewhat, but in my mind, there is a huge distinction between B2P and F2P. If ESO goes F2P I'll probably quit, since any troll can make as many accounts as they like, and just run around town emote-molesting all of the RPers. (That was actually the nail in the coffin for me on WoW.) But as long as you still need to pay a decent amount of money to make an account, I am not too worried about the community turning into a cesspool.

[Mauin]

So, I actually agree with this somewhat, but in my mind, there is a huge distinction between B2P and F2P. If ESO goes F2P I'll probably quit, since any troll can make as many accounts as they like, and just run around town emote-molesting all of the RPers. (That was actually the nail in the coffin for me on WoW.) But as long as you still need to pay a decent amount of money to make an account, I am not too worried about the community turning into a cesspool.

This just made me think... I'm not actually sure why a lot of people are calling what ESO is doing free to play... It really isn't. You've still got to buy it.
Sorry. That was just randomly bugging me.


As long as the others who play the game are good (not [&@%!], in other words), I'd be willing to play. More than willing, really. I just haven't played an online game before. I can definitely see trolls chasing me away, though, if ESO were to go free... But I think the pay to win sort of scenario would be worse. If a day comes where I have to pay to get past a certain level or get decent gear, I'm out. I really can't tolerate that.

In the mean time... The new buy to play model works just fine for me. I'm just going to have to clear it with everybody else in the house since we all share this connection. Shouldn't be too much of an issue since I mostly play games when nobody else is home. I hope...

[Alarra]

Yeah, this model's called buy-to-play, not free-to-play. That's a minor pet peeve of mine. There's a distinct difference, like Deandra said.

I still need to sit down and watch the video, which I was told is an hour and a half long.

Yes, I recommend this video in particular. (It's really more like an hour of actual content, since the first 10 minutes is "the show will start soon" and the fourth cinematic trailer, and the the last 25ish minutes is the four cinematic trailers one after another.) The usual ESO Live videos are mostly community chatter, but this one's solid information about the game: info about ESO Plus, the Cash Store (including video clips of everything they announced: Guar mounts! Senche-panther vanity pet! Costumes that'll be awesome for roleplay! and more), and a bunch of info about the development of the console versions.
http://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/3711373

As long as the others who play the game are good (not [&@%!], in other words), I'd be willing to play. More than willing, really. I just haven't played an online game before. I can definitely see trolls chasing me away, though, if ESO were to go free...

Well, there's ways to avoid them, at least. You can set filters on the chat - you can turn off general Zone chat, for instance. (Or create multiple chat tabs - for example I have one with Zone, and one without for when I want to focus on guild chat or just don't wanna keep seeing it appearing in the corner.) You can also put a block on users so you don't see them in chat, and if they're being particularly inappropriate, there's a Report function. I've only had to use that once or twice so far for an actual player and not a spambot (and spambots I haven't seen since, like, May.)

[Deandra]

As long as the others who play the game are good (not [&@%!], in other words), I'd be willing to play.

I can't speak for how the community will be with this change, if it will change at all, but ESO currently has the best community I've ever experienced in an online game. And our guild is great

[Mauin]

Well, there's ways to avoid them, at least. You can set filters on the chat - you can turn off general Zone chat, for instance. (Or create multiple chat tabs - for example I have one with Zone, and one without for when I want to focus on guild chat or just don't wanna keep seeing it appearing in the corner.) You can also put a block on users so you don't see them in chat, and if they're being particularly inappropriate, there's a Report function. I've only had to use that once or twice so far for an actual player and not a spambot (and spambots I haven't seen since, like, May.)

That's good, then. I might be more likely to focus on guild or group chat more than anything, though. That's assuming I actually chat much. I've played a grand total of one online game (nothing like ESO) and I think I said one sentence in two or three years. Granted, that particular game had chat bubbles over the heads of the avatars. I could never tell who was talking to who.

I can't speak for how the community will be with this change, if it will change at all, but ESO currently has the best community I've ever experienced in an online game. And our guild is great.

I'm hoping the community stays good, then. It seems unlikely that it would stay the same, but you never know. Just as long as it stays good.
I'll be sure to join the UESP guild if/when I get the game. I'm going to need help at that point. Badly.

[baratron]

Yeah, this model's called buy-to-play, not free-to-play. That's a minor pet peeve of mine. There's a distinct difference, like Deandra said.

While my initial reaction was "What?" and "Get these kids off my lawn!", it occurred to me later that this change is inevitable. It wouldn't be possible to have a PC/Mac version of Elder Scrolls Online with a monthly subscription and then a Xbox One/PS4 version without a monthly subscription. People on both sides would whine horribly. Console gamers wouldn't want to pay Zenimax a subscription on top of their Xbox Live/whatever the Playstation online membership is called, but PC/Mac gamers wouldn't want to be forced to pay for a subscription if they could simply get the game on their console for "free" (initial cost only).

I am definitely looking forward to a lot of our old members returning, the ones who quit because they didn't have time to play regularly or couldn't afford to keep paying the fees. Yes, the game is "buy to play" not "free to play", but if you already bought the game and then didn't bother to renew your subscription, then it will cost you nothing to come back. It'll be good to see some of those people again.

My pet peeve is people who think the game is going "ftp".

I still need to sit down and watch the video, which I was told is an hour and a half long.

Yes, I recommend this video in particular. (snip)
http://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/3711373

Cool, thanks . I'll watch that later. Not tonight.

I'll be sure to join the UESP guild if/when I get the game. I'm going to need help at that point. Badly.

Most of us are extremely willing to help other people out, especially people new to the game. I don't mind at all answering the same question that I've already answered twenty times, because there are a few user interface things which are ridiculously confusing after playing the single-player Elder Scrolls games. The only thing I object to is having to answer the same question over and over to the same player, because they weren't listening the first or second time .

[Mauin]

While my initial reaction was "What?" and "Get these kids off my lawn!", it occurred to me later that this change is inevitable. It wouldn't be possible to have a PC/Mac version of Elder Scrolls Online with a monthly subscription and then a Xbox One/PS4 version without a monthly subscription. People on both sides would whine horribly. Console gamers wouldn't want to pay Zenimax a subscription on top of their Xbox Live/whatever the Playstation online membership is called, but PC/Mac gamers wouldn't want to be forced to pay for a subscription if they could simply get the game on their console for "free" (initial cost only).


Most of us are extremely willing to help other people out, especially people new to the game. I don't mind at all answering the same question that I've already answered twenty times, because there are a few user interface things which are ridiculously confusing after playing the single-player Elder Scrolls games. The only thing I object to is having to answer the same question over and over to the same player, because they weren't listening the first or second time .

I hadn't considered that before, but now that I do, it makes sense. Console players would be paying more than PC players, but if they had no subscription fee while PC players did, people would definitely whine... If not cancel their subscriptions entirely out of anger. Getting rid of the subscription fee and going buy-to-play seems to be the best way of avoiding that. Console players wouldn't have to pay as much and PC players might be quiet... Well, except for the whole "it's going to be pay-to-win" stuff. You can never please everybody.


Yeah, I've been watching Youtube playthroughs since the game came out. The UI will take some getting used to, but it's doable. I'm more concerned with how steep the learning curve is for those of us who haven't played any MMO before. I have no idea how anything works.
Beyond that, it's more the concern of how well my PC will handle it. It meets most of the recommended requirements. It's only lacking in CPU power (2.9GHz dual core). It does run Skyrim fairly well for its age (even with an ENB meant for much stronger PCs), so... I dunno.

Also... TIL Walmart sells ESO. The spot was empty, but I'll probably be checking there when Tamriel Unlimited is released. I might be able to get it there. If not, then I'll have to order it online from Amazon or something.

[Venger]

Do I lose all items and rewards earned from DLC if my ESO Plus membership ends?

No. You will lose access to the DLC areas and quests should your membership lapse (unless you purchase the DLC separately in the Crown Store), but you will keep all items and rewards earned through the content.

My question is this: if the expansions are purchased through the Crown store, how much do the expansions cost? New players receive a gift of 500 Crowns upon signing up. I would imagine that the expansions are 500 Crowns or more, for if they weren't then from a business standpoint this would make at least one DLC free; not a good marketing plan. What then are the cost of the DLCs? Must the DLCs be purchased with Crowns, and not irl money? And if so, and just to clarify, does this mean that I am paying twice for the DLCs, once in irl money and then once more with Crowns in-game?

[legoless]

Must the DLCs be purchased with Crowns, and not irl money? And if so, and just to clarify, does this mean that I am paying twice for the DLCs, once in irl money and then once more with Crowns in-game?

What's the confusion? You can buy Crowns with cash. You're only gonna be paying twice if you buy a DLC with Crowns while you already have a subscription, but using Crowns has the benefit of giving permanent access to that zone.

[Venger]

Must the DLCs be purchased with Crowns, and not irl money? And if so, and just to clarify, does this mean that I am paying twice for the DLCs, once in irl money and then once more with Crowns in-game?

What's the confusion? You can buy Crowns with cash. You're only gonna be paying twice if you buy a DLC with Crowns while you already have a subscription, but using Crowns has the benefit of giving permanent access to that zone.

I am having a hard time expressing my dislike for this issue, assuming I understand it correctly. 'Redundant' seems the best word for it right now. But 'wasteful' isn't out of place here either. It's one of those "gut feelings" that says this is bogus. I don't need you to agree with me, but to understand what I mean would be groovy. Ya get what I'm saying? Sorry that I can't elaborate more on it at this time.

[legoless]

It's to make sure people keep paying a subscription so that they don't lose access to the zones. Pretty standard payment model. I can't imagine many people actually paying twice - you're either an ESO Plus subscriber or you're not.

[Jeancey]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned something similar in the other thread or anywhere else for that matter, but there is a big difference between game studios who go buy to play and then resort to pay to win tactics and Zenimax. This isn't Zenimax's only source of income. Bethesda makes a good deal of money through other games, so Zenimax doesn't have to resort to pay to win immediately when they aren't making enough money to keep the company afloat. They can afford to wait and let the game grow and make money through the DLC and ESOPlus. That's what I think the big difference is, and that's why I think the game will stay at a comparatively high-quality to games which end up pay to win.

[mondz_tes]

The switch from sub-model to buy-to-play is getting me a bit more enticed into actually trying it out now although I'm still on the fence until there's a big patch or update that will seal the deal for me.

[legoless]

There's a big update coming with Tamriel Unlimited's release.

[Alarra]

Just to let everyone know, you could actually buy ESO today or tomorrow and still not have to pay the sub fee, because 30 days of free game time come with purchase of the game. (You'd have to enter in payment information as if you're going to pay a sub, but you can then cancel it and still get the free 30 days.)

[Linkuya]

Just to let everyone know, you could actually buy ESO today or tomorrow and still not have to pay the sub fee, because 30 days of free game time come with purchase of the game. (You'd have to enter in payment information as if you're going to pay a sub, but you can then cancel it and still get the free 30 days.)

Thanks for the tip. I'm tempted to buy it when I'm in town now.